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View Full Version : What's It Worth, Or.....



Val Kosmider
12-10-2014, 12:55 PM
What would you pay?

I received an email from Woodpeckers offering this one time tool:

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/Products/200/132198.jpg

Basically it is a steel ruler with gradations on one end for setting heights (like router bits) and has a sliding "stop" (as pictured) for drawing lines.


They will open orders until later this month, then make a limited production run to be delivered around April, 2015.

I thought, that's an interesting little tool; what would I pay for it? Answer: Not where they are pricing it!

What would you pay....before you look it up? I am just curious what others think.

Jim Rimmer
12-10-2014, 12:57 PM
$10 max. for me.

Now that I've looked at it I might pay a little more but they need to take the 1 off the front of their price.

Steve Peterson
12-10-2014, 1:10 PM
I would pay around $10 max for that. I know that they are expecting to get a lot more. Any combination square can scribe a line like they are showing in the picture.

Steve

Steve Wurster
12-10-2014, 1:12 PM
I have the 6" red anodized version of this that I won during the 10 year Sawmill Creek free stuff giveaway. It's nice, but what they are charging seems a bit high.

Wade Lippman
12-10-2014, 1:27 PM
I would say maybe $20. Everything they make is really nice, and it is worth $20. I have several of their products; all of which I have bought used because I couldn't justify the new price.

But there are plenty of people who just want the nicest tool, and couldn't care less about how much it costs. And many of them will never use it. They just like owning it. Beats me why, but they do.

David Weaver
12-10-2014, 1:28 PM
It's just my opinion, but the tool makers that need to make limited run tools suggest to me that they don't have confidence that the tools would sell without giving you the impression that you'll miss out if you don't order right away. A good tool doesn't need a time limitation on it.

What they're demonstrating in that picture can be done with any square that has a sliding rule, and there are already various inexpensive height-setting jigs (not to mention, you can just use any accurate rule to set height).

Chris Hachet
12-10-2014, 1:52 PM
I would not pay anything. The more simple I can keep my shop, the better off I am.

Chris

Brian Elfert
12-10-2014, 2:10 PM
I suspect part of the limited run deal is they can create more urgency for customers to order the item right now because they won't have another chance. Woodpeckers collects the orders before the manufacturing run so they only build enough for the demand. Only making a limited run means Woodpeckers doesn't have to inventory another item in their warehouse.

I would be shocked if this thing costs much more than $20 to make even in the USA. It seems like Woodpeckers can make a pretty decent gross margin on these although they have to spend some money on development.

Charles Wiggins
12-10-2014, 2:25 PM
My standard knee-jerk answer to that question, regardless of the subject or actual value is 35.

Given that I already have a combination square that will do that and a whole lot more, in this case, I'm gonna say ZERO.

I'd take one if they were handing them out at a show or something. No knock against Greg. I hope they sell a ton, but they won't be to me. I might feel differently if I were a high production pro - and I wore an apron in the shop.

Judson Green
12-10-2014, 2:56 PM
Agree with the guys above who say nothing, OK I guess I might pay 35.

Doesn't look to do anything a combination square wouldn't do.

Art Mann
12-10-2014, 3:14 PM
This Incra tool below is what I use for this type application and it works very well. It doesn't appear to me that the Woodpecker item would work nearly as well. It is widely available any time you want to buy one - no silly "one time buy" gimmick. It isn't expensive. I just looked and it is available at Woodcraft for $18 regular price.

301919 (http://www.incra.com/images/measur_trule_main.jpg)

David Weaver
12-10-2014, 3:44 PM
I'll say this in their defense, it costs a lot of money to run a company, and even though the little thing is innocuous looking, I'm sure it costs plenty of money to design and produce it. A lot more than it costs to send something to china and have someone copy it with no real development costs.

that said, I didn't look at the cost (still), but imagine that on ebay you can often get a *hardened* head combination square, which is just about the most fantastic thing to have in your shop other than a marking knife and a pencil because they rarely go out of true.

Matt Day
12-10-2014, 4:52 PM
For a very well made tool that I'm sure would be nice to use, I don't think their asking price is as high as you guys are making it out to be. Prices listed below.

Think about how much stuff from Starrett and BCTW costs.

I'm not saying if buy one bc as has been said I already have tools that do this job, but if I had a need I would consider their asking price.





Spoiler alert!! The price is $40-$50 depending on size.

Jim Matthews
12-11-2014, 7:16 AM
A good tool doesn't need a time limitation on it.

This sort of marketing ploy is an indication that we produced more MBAs in the 1990's than
were absolutely necessary for the survival of our species.

Douglas Adams mentioned specialization as a harbinger of doom, Eons ago.
(Or somewhere in the near future, depending how you read Science Fiction.)

Pat Barry
12-11-2014, 7:44 AM
What would you pay?

I received an email from Woodpeckers offering this one time tool:

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/Products/200/132198.jpg

Basically it is a steel ruler with gradations on one end for setting heights (like router bits) and has a sliding "stop" (as pictured) for drawing lines.


They will open orders until later this month, then make a limited production run to be delivered around April, 2015.

I thought, that's an interesting little tool; what would I pay for it? Answer: Not where they are pricing it!

What would you pay....before you look it up? I am just curious what others think.
They want around $50. I'd think its worth around $20-$25 tops. It has lots of nice features. I'm sure it is high quality tool. I think it is however redundant tool for most people. Its tailored toward the gift market. If I had one, as a gift, I would think that whoever bought it overpaid. Ithink someone just starting out, with no other comparable tools, could make good use of it however.

Jerome Stanek
12-11-2014, 7:45 AM
I use my combination square to do that same thing

David Weaver
12-11-2014, 7:53 AM
Think about how much stuff from Starrett ... costs.

But if you bought a starrett, you'd have a starrett....that would be better. No aluminum bits and pieces, and, well, it's starrett.

Jamie Buxton
12-11-2014, 10:59 AM
Lee Valley offers something which is very similar for $16 (8") or $22 (12"). It is more substantial than the Woodpecker version, and has a vernier scale if you want extreme precision. I use mine quite a bit. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=61607&cat=1,43513

Val Kosmider
12-11-2014, 12:21 PM
Interesting to see what people think about this tool, and the appropriate level of pricing.

I thought it would be handy and that I would add it to my tool box.....

Without looking, my thought was that it was "worth" about $20, and at that level I would place my order.

When I saw the price for the smallest one...six inches I believe.....at $40, my interest faded. I hope they sell a ton of them, but at that level I just didn't see the value. My combination square does a great job.

In a strange twist, the Woodcraft Site has the 200mm (just less than nine inches) version listed this morning....at $1011.99. Maybe they meant to put it in the Neiman Marcus Catalogue?

Our small sample of market research suggests that consensus is about at my level.....$20 or so. I wonder if Woodpeckers came up with something dramatically different, or if they just priced it at $40 and up, and let the orders fall where they may. I cant see that "tooling up" to make this item is huge, so perhaps they just figured if they sold a few, great, and if not, the investment was minimal.

Shawn Pachlhofer
12-11-2014, 12:44 PM
I'm on the Woodpecker's email list so I get notifications on their offerings.

I too thought that it is a cool tool and would come in handy - but definitely not for $39.95 for the smallest one.

Matt Day
12-11-2014, 1:00 PM
There are a lot of people who think custom furniture is way overpriced. I find it kind of ironic that so many here are complaining about a high priced tool, especially with so many other high priced tools out there.

On top of that, isn't Woodpeckers a pretty small business? You think they could stay in business selling $20 retail tools, that probably have a wholesale cost of $10?

Brian Elfert
12-11-2014, 1:08 PM
On top of that, isn't Woodpeckers a pretty small business? You think they could stay in business selling $20 retail tools, that probably have a wholesale cost of $10?

What if $20 each means double or triple the volume of orders?

Matt Day
12-11-2014, 1:17 PM
I'm guessing $20 would probably be a loss for them or at best break even. Multiplying a profit of zero dollars times anything is still zero.

I forgot to mention, they are also made in America. I've gotten the impression that most people on this forum hold that value as important to them and would pay additional for it.

David Weaver
12-11-2014, 1:47 PM
I generally do, but not things made of plastic or anodized aluminum.

Brian Elfert
12-11-2014, 1:52 PM
I generally do, but not things made of plastic or anodized aluminum.

Curious about this. Why would you place less value on plastic or anodized aluminum items made in the USA? I place a higher value on anything made in the USA although I won't always pay the premium for the Made in the USA item. I am shocked sometimes to see inexpensive plastic stuff still made in the USA.

I needed some shelf pins the other day. I paid the extra 25 cents or so for the Made in the USA ones over the Chinese ones. I'm often surprised we even have the choice for USA versus China.

Shawn Pachlhofer
12-11-2014, 2:11 PM
I'm mostly a turner. Actually couldn't tell you I did anything involving flat work that would require any of the Woodpeckers stuff they sell.

so (to me) it's not just the cost, but also the usefulness of the item - I likely wouldn't use that ruler for quite some time.

and - like others said, I can likely accomplish what I need with another tool I already own.

David Weaver
12-11-2014, 2:12 PM
A tool with aluminum and plastic is, to me, not a permanent tool. It's already cheapened. Just my opinion. There's a very good reason that the parts that are aluminum are not steel. In this case, however, I can find a vintage hardened rule and head of some sort that is still true and that is a permanent tool. (I don't buy anything with a digital readout, either, though I've had most of the wixey offerings in the past...those kinds of things, to me, are temporary tools)

I would buy a LN plane over woodriver (and did many times) - no plastic or aluminum involved.

Baldor grinder, same (though I'd hesitate at the prices for baldor as they've gone up enormous amounts in the last two years)

That's just tools, and not stuff like appliances. (I will buy a vitamix over a foreign blender, even though the vitamix stings the wallet a little - it is demonstrably better than a foreign version and has a track record to prove it).

Kevin Bourque
12-11-2014, 2:36 PM
How many woodworkers are there in the world? Fewer and fewer is the answer.

They are selling to a very small market and therefore have to charge high prices to make a profit. That said, I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it. I've got other tools that do pretty much the same job.

Judson Green
12-11-2014, 3:03 PM
How many woodworkers are there in the world? Fewer and fewer is the answer.




I'd say there is more than there ever has been and growing. Woodworkers that make a living of it is however on the decline.

Malcolm Schweizer
12-11-2014, 3:46 PM
Another Woodpecker's price thread, which deserves my Woodpeckers price response: I think they are very wise with their business model- don't make it until it is already sold. With this business model, you can take a greater risk with the price, i.e. price it as high as you think you could get, and if you don't get any bites, either don't run it, or lower the price and try again. The same model goes for Bridge City, although they more push the collectability as an added value, and I feel Woodpecker's sticks more to the "you really need this" selling method.

That said, I'm one of those that are not buying. As someone mentioned, LV has a nice one for half the price. When a competitor offers a lower price, then you either have to lower yours or add value. Lowering your price means you are now in a price war. Nobody ever wins a price war, but if anyone loses, it's the one who started the war. So that leads us to added value. Woodpeckers' is precision machined and red anodized. It has two adjusting knobs instead of one. Lee Valley's has a thicker end for registering marks, a vernier scale, and is made of chromed steel. Woodpecker's has the ability to move the ruler stop so the ruler is vertical. (I don't really see the point, but it's added value from a selling perspective.) In the end, the customer decides if all that is worth paying double for Woodpecker's version.

In this case, I chose not to pay double, but in the case of their precision triangles and T-squares, I would pay a bit extra for those. I do not find very many precision triangles. I find a lot of cast ones and plastic ones, but not many that I feel I could call precision. I also find tons of T-squares, but Woodpecker's is very well made, and their reputation for accuracy would make me trust buying from them. T-Squares are something I use a lot, and it is very critical that they are dead-on perfect, as I typically use them to draw the prime registration marks upon which I measure all other marks. (In boatbuilding, the CL, the Waterline, and the Sheer line, as well as any other lofting lines when lofting plans to full scale) As for the aluminum versus steel thing- meh, these are not big tools, so I really think aluminum is just fine.

Kent A Bathurst
12-11-2014, 3:58 PM
Nada. Zip. Zilch.

One of my top-five-all-time tools is my Starret 4" double square.

Rich Engelhardt
12-12-2014, 6:53 AM
Work on the One Time Tool doesn't start until all other work has been finished. The production is done, in what otherwise would have been "down time".
The OTT allows the workers to stay employed rather than sent home early w/no pay or laid off.

Nice concept that more companies should use.

As for me? The OTT is priced out of my range.
I gladly paid the price for the other Woodpeckers items I bought though since I feel they are a step above anything else.