Looking to buy 37-43" Wide Belt Sander, Grizzly or Timesavers

[robert william]

Looking to buy my first wide belt sander.

Were a smaller shop, and don't plan to be running the machine non stop. Maybe doing 4 tabletops a day maximum, that are planed to thickness (1+1/16th) then put into a JLT panel clamp for glue up.
We have 3 phase 220; although it needs to wired into the shop by an electrician.

I was originally looking at timesavers speed sander, but after speaking to several distributors and the manufacturer themselves; think this may be a bit underpowered (10hp). After looking around it seems like timesavers are the name; but you pay a premium for it and id rather get a machine that works just as well and will have support for many years. I don't want to buy used since most used machines don't have a warranty and rather just have a new machine i know what condition it is and if it works, even if it costs a bit more. The machine i was looking at is made in taiwan anyways so i am now looking some grizzly WB's and can't find much information/reviews about them either

-Right now looking at a timesavers 1300 36" series single drum or grizzly 43" single drum or 37" dual drum.

Anyone have experience with the speed sander or 1300 series timesavers? or a the 37" or 43" grizzly wide belts? There are so many machines out there and forum posts about older AEM, Sandya machines but very little about these machines I'm interested in.

Any tips/recommendations are greatly appreciated!

[Jim Andrew]

I have experience with only 2 widebelt sanders, a shop I worked in had a speedsander, and I have a tiny Grizzly G9983 in my home shop. The speedsander has been in use for a number of years, only problem I remember was a bearing in the feed belt going bad a number of years ago, and last time I asked said they had no other problems. This sander was purchased new I'm thinking about 15 years ago, and has run about 5 days a week. When I used it, they used it for face frames, and I ran solid wood countertops through it, along with other custom pieces. Never noticed a lack of power. Same experience with my tiny Grizzly sander, although have had it about 3 years, and don't use it every day, but seems powerful enough for sanding about anything I put through it. One of the guys at the shop I worked was very knowledgeable about widebelts, and he showed me how to set the depth of cut with the sander, and how much to tighten the gap as you sand, and never to take more than a proper cut. One thing you never do is run a board through on edge, you will ruin your belt.

[robert william]

Thanks Jim.

Thats good information. From your experience with the TS speed sander do you think it would be able to handle solid panels close to the width of the machine i.e. 34-35" wide tabletops? Obviously taking off small amounts of stock on each pass?

[Jim Andrew]

I never ran a solid piece full width through the machine, only face frames, and solid counter tops 25" wide. We made solid wood tops for built in hutchs etc. The face frames were 30 to 36 wide, and it hardly noticed. I'd probably get hold of the tech support of the company, they should be able to advise you what machine for full width sanding.

[Max Neu]

I have a 43" single head Aem, it's been a great sander.I have ran large glued up panels close to maximum width with no problems. I use a 36grit belt if I have alot of material to remove, then switch to 80 grit, and so on.I only run the platen on the final grit, which is usually 180 grit, that will allow me to be more aggressive with the courser grits.
.

[robert william]

Hey max.

How many horsepower is your 43"?

[David Kumm]

Generally you want 20 hp for a 43" as a minimum. While you don't want to get greedy in stock removal, it is easy to hit a piece where suddenly the amp meter goes crazy ( or you try to take off that little bit extra. ) I think both Grizzly and Timesavers are made in Taiwan but Timesavers has been around forever, bought out or merged with AEM, and Sandingmaster, so it is big time into the business. They would be my choice after SCMI, EMI, or Kundig. While you don't want used, you should at least check out a rehabbed old gray AEM or Timesavers. They were built much heavier than today's machines and although the electrics were bulky, they were more bulletproof than the IEC modules used today. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

I've used my buddies speed saver 10hp 36" over the last 8 years. It works well. It is very lightweight though compared to a timesaver model that has the guy with the clock logo. Definitely about half the weight and HP too. Don't believe because timesaver sold it to you that it is the same machine quality wise as all their other product line. I'd question what they would really do product wise if some thing failed. I'd be looking hard at griz too if the decision was based on dollars. Otherwise I'd be looking at a used scmi.

[robert william]

Most of the models I'm looking at are 25hp. I can't find a used model (SCMI, EMI,AEM) that has some sort of warranty on it. They seem to be sold "as is" and with a big purchase like this i don't want to be left in the lurch..although I'm sure they are great machines.

Any reason why you don't like the grizzly? Is it just the name or is it based on your experience with actual machines?

[robert william]

thanks...thats good information!


I've used my buddies speed saver 10hp 36" over the last 8 years. It works well. It is very lightweight though compared to a timesaver model that has the guy with the clock logo. Definitely about half the weight and HP too. Don't believe because timesaver sold it to you that it is the same machine quality wise as all their other product line. I'd question what they would really do product wise if some thing failed. I'd be looking hard at griz too if the decision was based on dollars. Otherwise I'd be looking at a used scmi.

[Gregory Stahl]

I don't think I would invest that kind of money in a new Taiwan machine--I would look for a late model used SCMI. If you can scrounge-up a few thousand more, you can get a new Euro machine--the SCMI Sandya 1 37" is good value for the money.

I chose a new Butfering 43" this past summer for myself to upgrade from my SCMI Sandya WIN.

-Greg

[Jim Andrew]

I have never seen a Grizzly side by side to compare to a speedsander, but they are both built in Taiwan, could possibly be built in the same factory. Thing about Grizzly machines, is you can get ahold of someone on the phone, and they have parts readily available. I had no problem going with Grizzly on my G9983, and it operates just like the speedsander, only smaller. Plus it has a platen.

[David Kumm]

I've no ax to grind with any brand. Widebelts are likely the most complicated machine you will own. I've done my own fix it up thing but if you are depending on it to make a living you want to buy from a company that sells lots of machines and caters to their use in an industrial setting. There is nothing wrong with a good quality Taiwan machine for a basic sander. Drum and platen, no veneer sanding capability, no segmented platen, no vacuum bed, etc. It is more about the ability to get parts quickly. Lots of pneumatics and electronics. Many entry level machines are sourced in Asia now including Timesavers and Butfering. I'd also look for a repair guy near enough to come to the shop if needed. They are a great source for info on machines as all will have an opinion on build and ease of repair. For instance, although it takes up room, lots easier to work on a 30 hp motor if mounted outside the cabinet rather under it. My Sandya 5 has it underneath but otherwise isn't too bad to work on except that everything is crowded. SCMI sells as many WB as anyone here, Felder has some EMI machines in their line. Weber are top of the heap as are Kundig. The Euro stuff is a little more refined as is most Euro machinery. Asian machines with good quality control that aren't just built to a price point tend to be a pretty heavy build. How well the drums are machined is beyond my knowledge base. Houfek is Eastern Europe and a decent machine from what I've heard too. Dave

[Gregory Stahl]

Many entry level machines are sourced in Asia now including Timesavers and Butfering.

Butfering are not made in Taiwan--they are German. They tried assembling in Taiwan and stamping their sheet metal. The quality did not meet their standards so they decided to keep all manufacturing in Germany.

Greg

[David Kumm]

Butfering are not made in Taiwan--they are German. They tried assembling in Taiwan and stamping their sheet metal. The quality did not meet their standards so they decided to keep all manufacturing in Germany.

Greg

I stand corrected. I'm more of a used guy so I can be out of date. I believe their sanders made in the early 2000s with the fixed table were German, and models with moving tables were at least partially Asian. Good to know they have come back. Always hard to tell with Euro stuff as they aren't very transparent. Made in Europe can mean a few stickers and knobs. I'm also hearing that the production cost increases in China, coupled with the quality issues have sent more production back to Europe, sometimes the old Easternblock countries are becoming the outsource instead. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

I'm a euro buff and own a used Sanya Win. I think its a 2001. Its white, not green.. Mine has a 12hp motor, and an FLA of 30 amps. It idles at about 9 amps, and never really goes over 20 amps.

In simple math, that means it normally needs up to 8hp of the 12hp available for a 25" wide machine.

A 37" Wide machine with a 15hp motor would be fine IMO for normal use. I think many single head 37" Euro machines have 18hp .

[Bill Orbine]

I'm a euro buff and own a used Sanya Win. I think its a 2001. Its white, not green.. Mine has a 12hp motor, and an FLA of 30 amps. It idles at about 9 amps, and never really goes over 20 amps.

In simple math, that means it normally needs up to 8hp of the 12hp available for a 25" wide machine.

A 37" Wide machine with a 15hp motor would be fine IMO for normal use. I think many single head 37" Euro machines have 18hp .

Even sometimes the 18hp machines will get bogged down/stopped with the amp meter pegged in the red. Especially when running full width panels/tabletops thru the machine. I used to have the SCM Sand Uno w/ 18hp and BTDT. You'll need to take multiple passes. You'll need to treat the 10hp machine very delicately......so my opinion is get a bigger, more powerful machine for the table top sanding. Minimum 18hp.

[Jeff Duncan]

I would do as much research as you can before deciding. I run an older Timesaver, it's a 25 hp 43" beast and believe me when I say you can never have too much power in a sander. Especially if you want to run finer grits. Some other important things to look for are things like whether it has a platen and size of the drum. A larger drum will dissipate heat way better than the tiny ones many of the "affordable" machines use. Cooler belts last longer and if you haven't looked into belt prices yet…..well simply put you want your belts to last longer! Having longer belts also helps in this area. I have a neighbor who just brought in a late model 37" SCM. It's a nice clean machine but the belt is short and the drum is only like 5" or 6" at most! In comparison my Timesaver is something like 11" diameter! The platen will allow you to do finer sanding which can be handy with veneers. That's the one option my machine does not have that I wouldn't mind having.

In reality the machines your looking at are both entry level machines. I would think either could serve a shop well provided you only have one person who uses it and knows how to run it conservatively. There are plenty of deals to be had buying used, but I totally understand being apprehensive as the wrong machine could turn into a money pit real fast! I bought mine from a friend when he closed his shop so i was somewhat familiar with the condition of the machine having used it several times over the years.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

With a single head machine you basically have two head choices. To get a large 8-12" drum to look for a calibrating sander, no platen. Drum is usually steel. If you want the platen you usually look for a combo head, 5-7" drum, steel or hard rubber, and a 1.5-3" platen. A basic machine even with a platen will not be a true veneer sander. That requires a segmented platen and an antidubbing feature. Some basic sanders will have either a flexible or padded platen that will do a decent job on veneer if the substrate it totally flat. Dave

[robert william]

Thanks jeff..appreciate you taking the time. I think I'm leaning towards a 25Hp 43" grizzly or the timesavers 1311; both have a platen. I won't be doing veneers


I would do as much research as you can before deciding. I run an older Timesaver, it's a 25 hp 43" beast and believe me when I say you can never have too much power in a sander. Especially if you want to run finer grits. Some other important things to look for are things like whether it has a platen and size of the drum. A larger drum will dissipate heat way better than the tiny ones many of the "affordable" machines use. Cooler belts last longer and if you haven't looked into belt prices yet…..well simply put you want your belts to last longer! Having longer belts also helps in this area. I have a neighbor who just brought in a late model 37" SCM. It's a nice clean machine but the belt is short and the drum is only like 5" or 6" at most! In comparison my Timesaver is something like 11" diameter! The platen will allow you to do finer sanding which can be handy with veneers. That's the one option my machine does not have that I wouldn't mind having.

In reality the machines your looking at are both entry level machines. I would think either could serve a shop well provided you only have one person who uses it and knows how to run it conservatively. There are plenty of deals to be had buying used, but I totally understand being apprehensive as the wrong machine could turn into a money pit real fast! I bought mine from a friend when he closed his shop so i was somewhat familiar with the condition of the machine having used it several times over the years.

good luck,
JeffD

[Carmine Perrelli]

Robert,

I am a used machinery dealer in Chicago. I recently came across a 43" AEM 50HP Belt Sander Model 103-43 with the optional floating head design. My customer is looking to sell and can most likely be bought at a real good price. My understanding is that the machine is in real good running condition. I have photos and it appears to be a clean machine. Let me know if this machine with much more horsepower might be of interest to you... Regards.