Ancient Logging *Lots of pics*

[Scott Banbury]

Sunday, we finally had the opportunity to go get the rest of the ancient logs that the Corps of Engineers "set aside" for us.

I was also corrected on the probable age of the alluvial deposit the logs came from. It's not 10,000 years but more like 12,000-15,000 years 8)

Here's the pics and story. The pics are on my server so's I could make 'em a little bigger

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs01.jpg
My good friend, Larry, is the county's lead on the project. He has the keys ;D

Larry has spent 15 years getting this project to happen. Its purpose is to stop headcutting in the creek below the project which has moved 10 miles upstream from where it started over those 15 years. By stopping the headcutting where it's at, Larry will have in effect preserved several 1000 acres of bottomland that would otherwise have been drained by the headcut.

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs02.jpg

The project

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs03.jpg
The Corp's idea of "setting aside" the logs

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs04.jpg
Holy smokes, that's a big Racer on that thar log

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs05.jpg
Chris Owen here is my fearless new recruit. He and my cousin, Austin, are putting together their own treecare company, largely cause they're sick of working for the poor wages that I offer 'em (cold beer) and hearing me refer 4 digit tree jobs to other fellas. Chris has been climbing for another arborist for 3 years now while puttin' himself thru art school and he's a great addition to the crew!

[Scott Banbury]

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs06.jpg
Here's the whole Midtown Logging crew. That's me on the left, Austin in the middle and Chris on the right. I think these fellas like working with me just so they can go to bars and tell the missies that "Midtown Loggers do it with big hardwood"

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs07.jpg
That's my buddy, Larry on the left. He's what I call a "true" environmentalist. He hunts, fishes and used to trap even. Put himself thru law school drivin' a truck and skinnin' road kill on the side. He's since used his legal savvy to stop all sorts of badly designed water projects and probably saved tens of thousands of acres of bottomland from being lost. He's my hero and prime mentor.

Austin is "supervising" in the last picture while he sucks on a bottle of gatorade since he was out drinkin' tequila 'til just an hour or two before we loaded of the trucks

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs08.jpg
Here the fellas are analysing what it is that makes the LogRite cant hook so fine

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs09.jpg
We snatched the logs out of the pile using the winch on the front of my 'Yota and then rolled 'em right up some 12', 6"x6" oak ramps on to the back of Austin's F-600.

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs10.jpg

[Scott Banbury]

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs11.jpg
Larry did a fine job holding that log all by himself while me and my cuz clowned for the camera ;D

here's some of the haul . . .

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs12.jpg
This one still kinda smelled like sarsparilla

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs13.jpg
A Gum or Poplar maybe

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs14.jpg
Walnut with root flare attached

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs15.jpg

[Scott Banbury]

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs17.jpg
Maybe Oak

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs18.jpg
Cypress, we think. Sorry for the pic being out of focus. It was either getting too dark for my f1.7 lens or I'd had too much of the stuff in the brown bottle

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs19.jpg

Only bad part of the day . . .

http://www.scottbanbury.com/oldlogs19benthook.jpg
We bent the tip on our LogRite cant hook but Austin says it actually works even better now
Stay tuned for pics of the the sawin' . . .

[Bob Smalser]

Tough work.....I know.


Tell Austin I enjoyed his visit to my operation.

[Scott Banbury]

Thanks for the sympathy, Bob ;)

Austin really enjoyed meeting you too--talks all the time about what a cool blend of vocation/avocation you've got going on :)

[Harry Thornton]

Scott-you are saying that these logs were buried in mud some 12-15K years ago? Wow, seems like more loggers would be out there trying to get those logs. Can't wait to see the lumber. What does that type of lumber sell for...take the walnut for instance? Heck, if 200 year old chestnut is valuable, 12K year old stuff must be incredibally expensive!

[Chris Padilla]

Scott, keep these coming but you could just put them all in one thread so they are easy to navigate through. Just keep updating the thread.

I can't wait to see you slice up the logs! :)

[Ken Salisbury]

I merged all 4 threads on the subject into one for continuity.



http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Joe Meazle]

Way cool, congrats, I hope to take a gander at that stuff next time I make it to M town. I think it is time for those MLLC t-shirts so Austin doesnt have to go barechested.

Joe

[Karl Laustrup]

Really want to see the logs sawn into boards. Just can't even imagine what they will look like. Keep the pics coming.

P.S. Thanks Ken for merging them all together.

Karl

[Scott Banbury]

Scott-you are saying that these logs were buried in mud some 12-15K years ago? Wow, seems like more loggers would be out there trying to get those logs. Can't wait to see the lumber. What does that type of lumber sell for...take the walnut for instance? Heck, if 200 year old chestnut is valuable, 12K year old stuff must be incredibally expensive!

Harry,

It isn't like deadheading logs on the bottom of the river as many states will permit you to do. These logs were actually 8-10' below the bed of the river and even the Corps of Engineers had to complete a Federal Environmental Impact Statement to do this job. If us environmentalists were not in favor of the project we could have stopped it easily. Several hundred endangered mussels were hand relocated by volunteers prior to the digging.

The only other places these logs might show up would be really deep digs, like borrow pits but even they aren't supposed to go that deep due to threats to our aquifer. Access to the resource is thus very limited and wouldn't be feasible as a regular venture.

Since noone else is marketing this type of lumber specifically, it's hard to put a dollar figure on it. Deadheaded lumber is high depending on species and I have seen that New Zealander's have been digging up and sawing very old Kauri logs from peat bogs.

While I usually love to sell some of my lumber to fellow woodworkers, I'm probably going to be pretty stingy with this stuff and keep most of it for my own studio work and maybe a few commissions.

The first few pieces I make from it will be gifts to a few of my river conservation heroes.

[Scott Banbury]

I merged all 4 threads on the subject into one for continuity.


Thanks for hooking that up, Ken. The Sawmill server wasn't letting me put more than 5 pics in each post.

[Scott Banbury]

Way cool, congrats, I hope to take a gander at that stuff next time I make it to M town. I think it is time for those MLLC t-shirts so Austin doesnt have to go barechested.
Joe

Look forward to seeing you too, Joe. Maybe we'll have a shirt ready for you when you come ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for hooking that up, Ken. The Sawmill server wasn't letting me put more than 5 pics in each post.

Scott, you just need to post successvie posts in a single thread and you can get all the pics in you want but you are right, only 5 pics per post.

[Scott Banbury]

Really want to see the logs sawn into boards. Just can't even imagine what they will look like. Keep the pics coming.
Karl

We'll probably start sawing on 'em tomorrow night, Karl, and I'll be sure to post a gloat:D

One of the logs that appears to be Cypress was jet black inside when I clean cut the end. My buddy, Larry hypothesized that it may be the beginning stages of coal/peat formation but I haven't checked out any literature yet, so I don't know.

[lou sansone]

"Its purpose is to stop headcutting in the creek below the project which has moved 10 miles upstream from where it started over those 15 years. By stopping the headcutting where it's at, Larry will have in effect preserved several 1000 acres of bottomland that would otherwise have been drained by the headcut."







could you explain this to me? what is "head cutting "
thanks
lou

[Scott Banbury]

Lou,

Headcutting is when downstream channeling or ditching causes a rapid increase in the speed of the water flow due to the deeper channel.

The increase in the speed of the water constantly digs a "ramp" between the shallower, natural bed of the creek/river and the deeper channelized portion.
This results in the bottomland (flooded forest) being drained too fast and the subsequent decline of bottomland species--Cypress, Tupelo, Chinkapin Oak, Black Walnut, Sassafras, etc.

This, in turn, results in the degradation of habitat for aquatic and forest species--migrant songbirds, river mussels, otters, beavers, muskrats, etc.

It also leads to the suburban development of the land and thus the total loss of any habitat.

[Harry Thornton]

Scott, I spoke with one of your fellow Woodmizer owners yesterday. I told him about your project and asked if he would be interested in obtaining some ancient logs. He said the problem was that in time the logs become contaminated with minerals that eat up your saw blades. Have you found that to be a problem? Have you ever worked with ancient lumber before? I wonder how workable it is when dry?

Keep us posted on this. It is a facinating topic to me.

Lou, and anyone else that is interested, here is a "whitepaper" that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about headcutting and the project to which Scott is referring.
http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/wrtc/wrp/tnotes/hscp2-1.pdf

[Jon Olson]

What a cool post. I'm interested in what these old logs look like, also Thanks again for the post and continued updates. Hope the porject as a whole is successful in reducing the loss of habitat.

Jon