Hand Size - Biggest and Smallest?

[David Weaver]

Hand size is a minor interest to me because it dictates the size of a handle on a plane if you're making one for someone how how large the handle must be if you're buying a used one.

I have fairly small hands, 3.5 inches across the web, which means that for the most part, i can use almost anything that I can find. My jointer handle has 4 inches under the handle, which technically is a little bit too large for me, but it's actually very comfortable to use, more so than a handle that is a close fit.

I have seen women say that their hand across (right below the knuckles) is 2.75 inches.

But the biggest I've seen so far is the guy who got me into woodworking, who is a fellow who otherwise doesn't need to have large hands for any reason (he's an engineer), has a hand web that is 4.75 inches across. I asked him that because I told him I'd build him a try plane.

I do recall that before I had tools (he's got the typical woodworking characteristics of an engineer), he had all kinds of fixtures set up in his shop for power tools and my hands were never big enough to use the fixtures and hold the work pieces. He always had a great time with that (I won't repeat anything that we otherwise say to each other, there is no bottom level of respectability to our humor or derision of each other).

I told him I'd build him a double iron try plane that I was sure he wouldn't be able to use properly, anyway, and that would collect dust once he figured out that he couldn't set the cap iron and get the plane set both at the same time. (aren't i nice? :))

Anyway, though. 4.75 inches across below the knuckles...wow! That's going to make for a very odd looking plane. And I thought my scaled up 4.25 inch tall handle (with 4 inches under the horn for hand room) looked fat in the JT brown pattern....His handle's going to have to be another inch.

Anyone with bigger or smaller hands than that?

[John Coloccia]

I don't have tiny hands, but they're fairly small, especially for a musician. They're quite flexible, though. I'll tell you that I find Lie-Neilsen's saw totes cramped and by and large it's why I tend towards Veritas. They're a bit roomier. It's funny because for whatever reason, everyone thinks I have large hands until I we compare them and they see for themselves. I'm not sure why that is.

So anyhow, I guess my point is that I'm not sure just going by a measurement is best. I like big totes, fat guitar necks, fat drumsticks, etc. You'd never guess that just taking a measurement.

[Derek Cohen]

Interesting that you posted this, David. I was about to make reference to this area in an article I am preparing.

My hand is 4" across the web, which should place it in the larger category. However it is 3 1/2" across the base of my fingers, which places it in the medium range according to the system that Lee Valley are using for their Custom planes.

Hand size does affect the handles and planes I use. For example, I have a Lie-Nielsen #3. I bought it with a 55 degree frog (pre-chipbreaker setting) and this allowed me to install the larger #4 handle, which fits my hand. Now I would prefer a lower angle frog, however there is a limit how low the #3 frog can go and still make room for the #4 handle. 50 degrees is the best I can do.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ron Bontz]

Hi Dave.
The short answer is no. That's the biggest I have heard of. Hand sizing is a persnickety little critter in itself.
I have never tried to build a plane. ( bucket list project ) But adjusting the size of the tote while keeping the tool itself the same size is sometimes a bit tricky. Most hands I have found rarely go over 4.25" wide across the web/ palm of the hand. But I have encountered hands 4.5 to 4.75" across. I haven't gone around and looked at pro basket ball players hands, however. They may think me a bit strange, indeed. :) What I have found is the hand fit of any handle is a 3D fit. Not just the height of the handle or just the distance from the back to the front of the grip area. But also the over all circumference of the grip area. A slight variation in the height of the hump or prominence of the hump can make a difference to the fit and feel of the handle as well. Fortunately we tend to adapt to various differences and most hands are of average size. ie: 3.75" to 4" tall with the distance from the center of the palm to the tip of the middle finger about 5". Good luck with your endeavor.

[David Weaver]

Good luck with your endeavor.

Endeavor might be overstating it. This is all free stuff, that way nobody can complain about what they paid!

I figure you've probably come across a wider cross section of hands (or a deeper cross section maybe) than most of us. This guy is about 6'1", not abnormally tall or anything, but he's probably 300 pounds and even so, his hands look freakish at that size.

I'm going to scale the handle so that the hump is in the right place for him. Overall height might be a little more critical on a wooden plane than a saw just because on a wooden plane of legitimate type, there is no relief at the bottom of the handle, and if the fit is even just tight, it causes an uncomfortable rub on the outside of the hand, almost like a bruised feeling. Not that a saw handle is comfortable if it's the wrong size, but you can get away with a little bit more because it's not sunk into a perpendicular flat surface.

The first plane he ever got that someone suggested to him was a lie nielsen #2 :eek: Needless to say, he hasn't used it much.

When I was in college, I sat next to calvin booth in an economics lecture a couple of times. His hands weren't particularly large width wise, but his fingers were long (he was 7 feet tall, but thin). I've seen other folks, like a kid who I just met who went to the round of 16 in the US amateur last year, and his hands were unusually large. There probably is some usefulness in sports to having hands that large.

the other thing I noticed, is that kids who grew up on farms in my dad's era, and who were exposed to manual labor early, seem to have really thick wide hands, even if they're not that big of a person. Fat fingers, too. My dad's hands are another 3/4" wider than mine, and I'm generally bigger than him otherwise, and my mother's father's hands were bigger yet (he was a life long farmer). both of them grew up with a lot of heavy hand type labor, so I'm just assuming the fact that my hands are smaller and lighter are due to the lack of regular heavy work that kids growing up in the last 3 or 4 decades were exposed to. I've seen studies before of kids who grew up in families that do a lot of climbing, and their hands are shaped differently (and bigger) as they grow up, including the girls.

As john alluded to, the fact that my hands are both narrow and my finger span isn't that large (pinkie to thumb tip maximum 8.5" stretched) made it harder for me to play guitar when I was younger, and I never knew why until I'd already played guitar for about 10 years - there are just some things I can't play without accidentally muting the strings because my hands are at the limits.


I have never tried to build a plane.

It's easier than building folded back saws!! you never build a plane and find an unexpected wave in part of it when you're done. the hardest part is locating a respectable looking iron and cap iron and finding good dried quartered beech stock.

[Daniel Rode]

I've never measured my hands before. Across the knuckles, I get 3 11/16". Across the web, if I'm measuring correctly, I get just under 4".

[David Weaver]

The biggest hands I've ever seen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvEYaX9ywQg

I can't find a good set of measurements from andre's hands, but I know that bronze castings were made of them, and there is an impression casting of the same.

It looks like from middle finger to wrist, his hands were 13".

301674301675301676

At the same time, i had a friend, normal sized girl, who had exceptionally small hands. narrow and short. A friend and I were out at my parents' house shooting a 1911 .45 auto, and she wanted to try and even with two hands and a proper grip, she could not keep a hold of the pistol, we had to cut her off.

I don't know if folks with hands that small think much of tools, because my jointer is technically a fair bit bigger handle size than my hand should have, but like I said, it's comfortable. The hump is within striking distance of where it should be, and my jack is made dead on to my hand size and it's less comfortable.

I think at this point, I'll build my planes so that they're at least 4" tall at the handle height, which gives them a little over 3 3/4" under the horn. Somewhere between a quarter and a half inch of extra room on a wooden plane seems to be nice. I built (out of kits) most of the saws that I use, and I did build one too small, but it's usable. If my jack was any smaller, it wouldn't be.

[Sam Murdoch]

My Mother tells of meeting a man who could pass a US silver dollar (38.1mm) through his wedding ring :eek:.
My hands are in the 3.5" + wide with short and stubby but strong fingers. Always have been good working hands without issues with any tool I can think of, but a real disadvantage for properly spiraling a football.

[David Weaver]

I hear you on the football thing. Narrow hands are good for working on cars and appliances, though - I'll say that much.

[John Coloccia]

As john alluded to, the fact that my hands are both narrow and my finger span isn't that large (pinkie to thumb tip maximum 8.5" stretched) made it harder for me to play guitar when I was younger, and I never knew why until I'd already played guitar for about 10 years - there are just some things I can't play without accidentally muting the strings because my hands are at the limits.


Flexibility helps an awful lot. On guitar, I've actually never had a problem grabbing chords, even ridiculous ones. There's so much space between adjacent notes that having a larger hand really isn't a huge advantage unless they're truly enormous. The only thing that gives me trouble is that sometimes I'd like to wrap my thumb over the top to grab the A string, and if the rest of the chord is a big stretch too, I can't do it.

Piano, on the other hand, is a different story. Notes are generally much closer together, and an extra 1/4" can make all the difference in the world. There are some voicings that I have a very difficult time hitting. For example, if I have an C in the bass, and I want to stick an E on top, it's a serious stretch. I can just barely do it, and depending what's in the middle, I can't do it at all. With an extra 1/4", it would be downright easy. That kind of voicing comes up all the time in jazz arrangements, so I just have to leave something out. Octaves are no problem, though. Many many years of ragtime playing fixed that right quick. :) There's a serious advantage to larger hands, even just marginally larger hands, on the piano.

[paul cottingham]

4"+ hands here. Bad for handsaws, and plane handles, good for bass playing.

[Curt Putnam]

About all I can add to the thread here is that finger length & thickness have as much to with handle fit as does palm width. My fingers are 9.5" thumb tip to pinkie tip and the palm is at a fat 4.25". Not the largest hands I've seen by any stretch but large enough to create issues with fit. Stanley handles tend to be quite uncomfortable. My LN # 4 tote wanders around in there and that makes it tough to hang on to. Obviously I prefer the LV totes because they fit and feel good. OTOH, their saw handles hurt because the lower horn digs into the palm. I had the chance to try Issac Smith's larger handles and surprisingly the smaller of the two works better (despite being a tight fit) because, for whatever reason, my fingers could not get as a good grip as with the smaller.

Once you get past the 95% point on any fit curve, life gets difficult quickly. Tall folks have trouble getting in and out of cars and small folks have trouble reaching the pedals. I used to be 6-4 but have shrunk lengthwise and expanded widthwise and have even more trouble with cars and trucks. Normally cannot go to the BORG and buy a pair of gloves, and so on. It costs too much (I guess) to inventory stuff for the 2.5% at either tail. Sigh

[Charles McKinley]

Hi David,

Try taking a piece of wood a bit thinner and narrower than the handle will be. Cut the angle the tote will be on the bottom. cover it with modeling clay and set the bottom on a flat surface and have you friend grab it tight enough to push the extra clay out of the way and you should have a very reasonable profile to base the handle off of. if you use a clay that can be hardened air or baked it would make it more durable to work with than clay that stays soft and would deform just from being laid down.

[Judson Green]

I've got long skinny fingers, I'm also long and skinny 6' 3" and usually south of 150 lbs. If I'm measuring right 9" from pinky to thumb tip, 3 5/8" across the knuckles and 3 7/8" at the web.

Curt, I totally know what you mean about getting in and out of cars.

[Shawn Pixley]

I don't have tiny hands, but they're fairly small, especially for a musician. They're quite flexible, though. I'll tell you that I find Lie-Neilsen's saw totes cramped and by and large it's why I tend towards Veritas. They're a bit roomier. It's funny because for whatever reason, everyone thinks I have large hands until I we compare them and they see for themselves. I'm not sure why that is.

So anyhow, I guess my point is that I'm not sure just going by a measurement is best. I like big totes, fat guitar necks, fat drumsticks, etc. You'd never guess that just taking a measurement.

John, I think that there is a "feel" that individuals look for. My hands are slightly on the small size but with broad palms (3-7/8" mid palm, 9" thumb tip to pinkie tip) across. I prefer my guitar necks thin, chisel handles thinner, but big totes, and big pistol grips. I used to be a climber so I have pretty strong hands. I am tallish and athletically built and I hit my head on the roof of cars regularly The difference may be where each of us prefers to carry the strain in their hands.

[Harold Burrell]

I'm also long and skinny 6' 3" and usually south of 150 lbs.

So...it sounds to me like (even though you live in that "Enchanted land") you're not availing yourself to the "beer, cheese & brats" there.

[Jim Koepke]

My hand is at 4" across the palm, about 8-3/4" thumb tip to tip of the pinky and 8" from middle finger tip to the edge of the heal at the wrist.

Reading this thread highlights the importance for a person to be able to put a tool in their hands before purchasing. At least when considering their first high dollar tool. Over the years there have been comments on preferences for Veritas' or Lie-Nielsen's handle style on planes and saws.

On old tools one is pretty much stuck with what comes with it. Many of my tool handles have been 'adjusted' to my hand. Most of us know how a Stanley/Bailey plane is going to feel in our grip.

jtk

[Judson Green]

So...it sounds to me like (even though you live in that "Enchanted land") you're not availing yourself to the "beer, cheese & brats" there.

Oh I've plenty of all but I'm one of the chosen few who can eat and drink not show it.

Edit: I might get a bit wobbly with too much drink

[Judson Green]

My hand is at 4" across the palm, about 8-3/4" thumb tip to tip of the pinky and 8" from middle finger tip to the edge of the heal at the wrist.

Reading this thread highlights the importance for a person to be able to put a tool in their hands before purchasing. At least when considering their first high dollar tool. Over the years there have been comments on preferences for Veritas' or Lie-Nielsen's handle style on planes and saws.

On old tools one is pretty much stuck with what comes with it. Many of my tool handles have been 'adjusted' to my hand. Most of us know how a Stanley/Bailey plane is going to feel in our grip.

jtk

It also highlights just how adaptable we are. Show of hands (no pun intended) how many here use stock vintage Stanley planes? Stock vintage disston saws?

[Bill Houghton]

This is interesting. I measured my hand, and it's 3-1/2" just below the fingers. But, when I get gloves, I always have to get the XL gloves; and my hands aren't fat, by any means.

I never have any trouble with Disston saw handles, nor with Stanley planes at 4 and up; but, on my Stanley 10-1/2 bench rabbet, I have to leave my hand open on the tote, letting my fingers run up alongside the blade.

The handles that always confuse me, wandering from hand tools, are the 1950s 1/4" electric drills, which all seem to have handles for people with two fingers.

[Stew Denton]

Hi David,

I am another guy that isn't real big. Width across the web of my hand is 3.5", with a span of 8&3/4". I like Stanley totes and Disston hand saw handles, however.

Regards,

Stew

[Ron Bontz]

Indeed hands are all size and shapes. Some female hands can be only 2.75 to 3" across the palm, with fingers as long as a man's hands. My theory is men and women, despite being taller these days with longer fingers/ hands, did not have as robust, more muscular, hands as the old craftsman due to no longer having to adapt to manual labor. We do however for the most part gain weight in our hands with age thereby needing larger gloves, etc. as we grow older. My hands along with my belly seem to have grown out instead of up these last few years. My hair on the other hand just plain decided to go on a diet, became anorexic and disappeared leaving behind a trail of white wanna be s.
Some day I may indeed get to build those hand planes. I won't put a name on them so folks can go crazy trying to figure out the maker. :)
Hey Bill. I noticed the electric drills as well. I have noticed when I would use my electric drills I would support it with mainly two fingers while using my thumb and fore finger up around the body in line with the drill bit for more power and control. So maybe there is something to that. I never really thought about it until now. Hmmmmm quite the quandary.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

Mine are just shy of 2.75; I can make just about any tool work for me...but always not for long, comfortably. On saws in particular, the handles dictate the ones I most often use.

[Daniel Rode]

When I was a young man, I worked constantly with my hands. They were not only calloused but larger; fingers and hands. After about 30, I only did work around my house and woodworking as a hobby. Over they years, my ring size dropped and I'd bet my glove size dropped as well.


My theory is men and women, despite being taller these days with longer fingers/ hands, did not have as robust, more muscular, hands as the old craftsman due to no longer having to adapt to manual labor.

[Jason Roehl]

This is quite the interesting thread.

My hands measure:

3.5" across the four knuckles below the fingers (useful for carpentry!)
8" from wrist to tip of middle finger
9" (full stretch) from tip of thumb to tip of pinkie.

David makes this sound like it's perhaps average or so, but in my experience, the only people I meet with larger hands are former football players who are still in a manual labor job, and tall, skinny guys (though their hand width usually is similar to mine)--a small minority. I've always been somewhat athletic, but not necessarily into organized sports, and my profession involves much manual labor (painting). I have excellent grip strength. Someone I often work with is a former football player, and he's impossible to shake hands with--his hands, nay, paws are thick and wide, probably close to 5 inches across the knuckles. Considering that the average height of a male in the U.S. is about 5'10", I figure I'm probably above average in the hand department, too, at 6' even.

Interestingly enough, even though my colleague has larger hands, because of the extra thickness, he prefers using an extension pole for rolling that is thinner than what I like. In other words, if you loosely curl your hand, how big is the "doughnut hole"? Mine is larger than his. This would be another consideration when making tool handles.

When I buy work gloves, I like a snug fit, which almost always means 'large'. However, a few years ago, I bought a box of large nitrile gloves for when I have to stain, and they've almost gotten to the point where I can't use them--they're difficult to put on. Next box will definitely be XL.

[Adam Cruea]

At least 4 1/8" across the web of the palm. I'm pretty sure it's 8" or 8 1/2" from tip of pinky to tip of thumb. My palms are actually wider than my fingers are long.

Large/XL gloves usually fit my palms just fine. However, I end up with excess material on the fingers something fierce.

What's funny is where I grew up, I have dainty little hands. Guess there's something to be said for corn-fed country boys.

And 2.75" for a woman? That's a tiny little hand!

[bridger berdel]

It would be useful to have summaries of the various systems used to size tool handles, especially those used at a distance. For instance the system that Lee Valley has for measuring fit for their new planes at shows and in stores is great in that you can physically try and compare a bunch of handles, but when buying from the catalog the only measurement referenced is width across the palm. I dont know if the three sizes and two styles are different in say diameter, but if so it appears to be strictly linear by length- it doesnt appear to be possible to get say the short handle in fatter grip or the longer handle in a smaller grip diameter. LV has to do inventory control, so they need to keep the parts count to a minimum. 6 options of handles is the number they have landed on as manageable and its far more than anything else available at that level of production but for smaller custom makers who need to provide better customization a more sophisticated system is needed.

Handle design varies by more than just hand size. Some tools are used with push forces, some with pull forces, some with twist forces, and the direction of those forces greatly influences handle requirements. Most tools probably use some combination of push pull and twist. some things like feel can't be readily codified and will be greatly influenced by things like surface finish and texture. An interactive tool that could accurately predict an optimized handle shape would be very useful but would likely need quite a bit of back end code.

Handle geometry can be quite complex, but then a rounded stick will still give something to grab onto, too....

[Jim Koepke]

Handle geometry can be quite complex, but then a rounded stick will still give something to grab onto, too....

For some who are less concerned with aesthetics or comfort a round stick was their replacement for a broken plane tote or saw handle. If you watch the auction sight they show up on occasion.

To me, the feel of a tool in my hand is rather important. If it doesn't feel right and can be modified for the better, it will be changed.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I can only comment on plane handles, but it's my aim for my planes (and the one I'm making for a gorilla handed friend) to be usable without squeezing the handle, and to have the handle not trouble the outside of the pinkie nor the web of the hand.

All of the handles I've made have been about 1 inch wide, which seems universally OK to me. The hump in the handle has to be in the right place, and if someone squeezes their handle when they use it, not my problem. It's more useful to have the fit right, push the handle without squeezing and then lift the plane off of the work surface with the web of your hand without having to put any pressure on your grip.

The one nice thing about a 5" handle is if it's too big, I can steam it back out and make another handle pretty easily. I doubt it will be too big, though. These are the reasons it's nice to make someone something for free than it is to trouble with trying to make things for pay. If the guy who got me into woodworking considers the service poor, he can return the plane for a full refund of $0 :)