Needing a shoulder plane (suggestions)

[Eric Schatz]

I'm looking for a good X-mas gift from the wife. I'm in need of something rabbiting. Also, I'm looking to keep it around $100. So far I'm looking at the Stanley Sweetheart 92 shoulder plane. It's $90 so there's that. It would be the first new plane I own. I'm comfortable fetteling and truing it up (which the reviews say are super necessary).

I'm needing this to true up box lids that sit inside of the top and other similar things. Not really planning on using it for shoulders much. I just use a chisel for that work. The box tops are longer and need more precision than a standard BE chisel.

Any thoughts on the plane or maybe an alternative? I would love a LN Rabbit block plane with the nicker but it's just outside of my price window and also I've got a good old no-name block.

[David Weaver]

I don't know how big these box lids are going to be, but shoulder planes are generally a pain for anything that involves removing a large amount of wood. They do not clear their own chips like a rabbet plane does. I think you probably want a rabbet plane instead.

I can't really give you a suggestion on rabbet planes because they're usually old and require some refurbishing to get in shape. I'd look for one in what looks like pretty good straight condition and with a skew iron if you're going to use it for lots of cross grain cuts in addition to the long grain cuts.

[Eric Schatz]

Ok, I've got a Stanley 46 (the combination plane with the skew cutters). I have 8 cutters but not the little ones (the ones I need!). It's an OK tool but not a great one. I usually hog out the rabbit with a Table Saw (verboten?) and then clean up all of the edges with a chisel. The 46 is not a smoothing type of plane. It rough's out pretty well but I have a hard time setting it to make very precise and finish type cuts. Maybe I need to fiddle with it more.

BTW I bought all of the cutters,the plane, depth stop, nicker, and fence for $40. : )

[Jim Koepke]

Eric,

My Stanley #93 gets used often for things like what you describe. As David said, they will not be convenient when you want to remove a lot of wood. Mine usually comes into the job when just a slight bit of trimming is needed.

As for fettling goes here is something I wrote years ago about old shoulder planes. It may or may not be of help:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?119301-Stanley-Shoulder-Plane-Looking-and-Fettling

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I find shoulder planes a little awkward to use when there's not a high cheek to register against. I'd be more inclined to save up for a router plane with an edge fence or a jack rabbeting or rabbet block plane.


What other things did you want to use the shoulder plane for?

Last, here's a case where people either love or hate a shoulder plane. For this reason, I'd buy one that'll be easy to resell like the Veritas or LN's. If you want to resell it then you might have an easier go than the Stanleys or Woodrivers (another option for you)

[Jim Koepke]

BTW I bought all of the cutters,the plane, depth stop, nicker, and fence for $40. : )

Now that makes me jealous.

jtk

[Brett Luna]

It's out of the price range you specified but I'm really happy with the gently used Veritas medium shoulder plane I recently bought from a Creeker. Perhaps you could drop a hint to you wife that an LV (or Visa/MC) gift card wouldn't be amiss. You could put it toward a shoulder plane as I did last year. The gift card from my wife went toward my #4 smoother.

[Fidel Fernandez]

I have a combination stanley 45 and I can fit and use the Veritas small plow blades without any trouble. Have you tried them the Veritas blade?
That will be cheaper that buying a new plane.
If it is like the 45, the trick is let it slide. You will push it forward and lateral against the wood. I made the mistake to push down on my forward motion and I had trouble.
Let it slide and it will cut really nice.

Also, I learned to look on the wood orientation to build my drawers, so If it all possible don't go against the grain.



Ok, I've got a Stanley 46 (the combination plane with the skew cutters). I have 8 cutters but not the little ones (the ones I need!). It's an OK tool but not a great one. I usually hog out the rabbit with a Table Saw (verboten?) and then clean up all of the edges with a chisel. The 46 is not a smoothing type of plane. It rough's out pretty well but I have a hard time setting it to make very precise and finish type cuts. Maybe I need to fiddle with it more.

BTW I bought all of the cutters,the plane, depth stop, nicker, and fence for $40. : )

[paul cottingham]

Fettling a shoulder plane will be tough. I would drop the money on a new 3/4 or 1 inch shoulder plane. Perhaps a hint to get you started along the way to the purchase? A good shoulder plane is a forever tool, and will have much better resale than one of the cheapies.
You can create a rabbet with a shoulder plane, but it takes some practice. I create a deep knifeline on the edge of where the rabbet will be and drop the edge of my shoulder plane into it. you can then progressively plane down, widening the resulting vee until i can plane flat, creating the rabbet. works well, but a dedicated rabbet plane is better. Again, I wouldnt cheapout on a rabbet plane either, as you will be fighting with it pretty much continually. This is especailly true if its your first.
As always, YMMV. If you are like David or George, you may have a natural gift for fettling. If so, I am immensely jealous.

[Jim Koepke]

I have a combination stanley 45 and I can fit and use the Veritas small plow blades without any trouble.

Eric mentioned he has the Stanley 46. It takes a different blade geometry than other combination planes.

Though it might work for his needs, it is an entirely different animal.

Eric, are you anywhere near the Portland, OR area? If so send me a PM and if you like you can give my shoulder plane a tryout to see if it fills your needs. There are also a few other planes in my shop that may do the trick.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I'd look for a skew rabbet plane with a higher pitch (like 55 degrees), and probably something in the $15 range, since it's a rabbet cutting thing. To be more clear about what I was saying earlier, a shoulder plane allows any coarse shavings to just pack into the escapement area above the iron. If you don't get the stuff out before it get packed, you literally will need to poke it out with a dowel or something.

On top of that, shoulder planes have a lot of stiction in a long rabbet, and aren't nearly as pleasant to use as a plain old rabbet plane.

The items that need to be decent in a cheap rabbet plane:
* as low wear as you can get
* the front and back should be coplanar on the sides (you can plane the side if they're not)
* the bottom should be square (you can plane that, too)
* the iron should be slightly wider than the plane, in an old plane that has shrunk some, you may need to hone some of the iron off the side
* the wedge should be in decent shape
* look closely at any moulding plane to make sure the iron doesn't look like it's a terrible fit. If it looks off, it's probably not the original iron.

[Judson Green]

BTW I bought all of the cutters,the plane, depth stop, nicker, and fence for $40. : )


What a jerk! Like a jab to the ribs! ;)

I do like having a shoulder plane in the shop, it doesn't come out very often, but nice to have one.

[Judson Green]

Eric mentioned he has the Stanley 46. It takes a different blade geometry than other combination planes.

Though it might work for his needs, it is an entirely different animal.

Eric, are you anywhere near the Portland, OR area? If so send me a PM and if you like you can give my shoulder plane a tryout to see if it fills your needs. There are also a few other planes in my shop that may do the trick.

jtk

Be careful Eric, sounds like Jim's working on a trade for you.:D

[Curt Putnam]

I have the older Stanley 92, in essentially new condition. It makes the current thing they call a 92 look pretty sickly. It's small enough that my big mitts have trouble with it so I acquired an LV medium shoulder a couple years ago in a Cyber Monday sale. My advice is to wait and save up for the LV. Leave me a PM if you want to talk about the 92.

[Jim Koepke]

Be careful Eric, sounds like Jim's working on a trade for you.:D

Actually I do not currently have anything in the shoulder plane or rabbet plane arena that I would want to let go.

So if you are in the area you wouldn't be likely to pry anything loose from my accumulation.

Now if you were looking for some bench planes in less than fantastic condition, I might be persuaded to let a few go. Though at present I am thinking of building up my Bank of Tools Savings and Loan in order to fund a future purchase. My tendency is to save them and sell when there is enough on hand to fund the purchase. The money tends to slip through my fingers otherwise.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

Ok, I've got a Stanley 46 (the combination plane with the skew cutters). I have 8 cutters but not the little ones (the ones I need!). It's an OK tool but not a great one. I usually hog out the rabbit with a Table Saw (verboten?) and then clean up all of the edges with a chisel. The 46 is not a smoothing type of plane. It rough's out pretty well but I have a hard time setting it to make very precise and finish type cuts. Maybe I need to fiddle with it more.

BTW I bought all of the cutters,the plane, depth stop, nicker, and fence for $40. : )
If you hog out the majority of the waste on a table saw, I'd use a router plane to get the bottom to the correct depth. The problem with the table saw is that the wood can be warped somewhat and that causes differences in the depth of the cut. With a router plane and the correct size blade, you can make the rabbet have a constant depth.

To trim the sides, I like the Stanley 79. They made 79's with and without a depth stop. Try to get one with a stop. There are alternate planes for trimming the side of a rabbet - the Stanley 98 and 99, or the LN versions of those planes. The 98 and 99 are a lot more expensive than the 79, and I prefer the 79.

Mike

[glenn bradley]

I love my shoulder planes but, they are shoulder planes. As David points out, they do not clear their own chips well due to their more specific design. If you are rabbeting, I would get a rabbet plane; nicker and all ;-)

[Charles Bjorgen]

Eric, you might consider a vintage Stanley 78 duplex fillester and rabbet plane. They're regularly available on the auction site. You want to make certain that the plane includes the depth stop, fence and fence rod. Frequently around $50 or so depending on condition. Just scroll down a ways to see Patrick's description.

http://http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm (http:/www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm)

[David Weaver]

It's in the budget to get a decent moving fillister and a rabbet plane and probably still have money left over, even if you get nice examples of both.

Moving fillister will give you the ability to make a repeating cut and with a nicker to have a tidy top edge, and the rabbet will give you flexibility to work angles and such that the moving fillister doesn't like.

[Ryan Baker]

I have one of those modern Stanley 90 series planes, but I don't like it very much. I would not recommend going that route.

Obviously, if you can find a good deal on a slightly used quality model, that is a good option. But that rarely happens when you wish it would.

I agree that a good moving filletster or rabbet plane is probably what you want. I don't think I would recommend an old wooden filletster for most people, because they often have wear in the most important part of the sole, which is not simple to fix. A decent condition Stanley 78 (or similar copy) can be found pretty easily for a reasonable cost, and they usually don't take much work to get working well. Lee Valley actually sells an Asian wooden rabbet plane for under $40. Many have knocked this plane for having chatter because the wedge is too far from the throat. Mine works great and I have not had any chatter problem with it.

Another option, if you are up for a little project, would be to make your own rabbet plane. It isn't really that hard to do. If you don't want to try to make the iron, you could use one from another plane or buy an iron new from someone like Lie Nielsen. You could make several planes that way and stay within your budget.

Edit: To clarify, there's nothing wrong with old wooden planes either, as long as you can find ones in good shape. If they need work, they can be as much effort as building your own.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm looking for a good X-mas gift from the wife. I'm in need of something rabbiting. Also, I'm looking to keep it around $100. So far I'm looking at the Stanley Sweetheart 92 shoulder plane. It's $90 so there's that. It would be the first new plane I own. I'm comfortable fetteling and truing it up (which the reviews say are super necessary).

I'm needing this to true up box lids that sit inside of the top and other similar things. Not really planning on using it for shoulders much. I just use a chisel for that work. The box tops are longer and need more precision than a standard BE chisel.

Any thoughts on the plane or maybe an alternative? I would love a LN Rabbit block plane with the nicker but it's just outside of my price window and also I've got a good old no-name block.

Hi Eric

If I understand you correctly, what you are after is a plane to fine tune a rebate (rabbit) ... ? If this is for a box, then I also assume that the rebate is no wider than a 1/4", and probably less ...?

If 1/4" wide, you could consider the $37.50 Veritas miniature shoulder plane: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=64300&cat=1,41182

The planes that I think are probably what you want are the Veritas detail rabbet planes ...

http://www.leevalley.com/US/images/item/Woodworking/Planes/05p7501s1a.jpg

These come in sizes from 1/4" - 3/8" .. and are $65 each.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=64808&cat=1,41182

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eric Schatz]

It's in the budget to get a decent moving fillister and a rabbet plane and probably still have money left over, even if you get nice examples of both.

Moving fillister will give you the ability to make a repeating cut and with a nicker to have a tidy top edge, and the rabbet will give you flexibility to work angles and such that the moving fillister doesn't like.

Do what now? What planes are we talking about specifically? I'm seeing planes that individually cost over budget. Let alone buying both. I'm definitely interested! : )

[David Weaver]

skew rabbet planes on ebay that look like a decent place to start (you do have to be able to sharpen a skew iron, which is better achieved freehand and by observation than by guide).



351245062270


231407146777 (personally, I think a 5/8" rabbet plane is narrow)


I don't think you need a rabbet plane with a nicker. you can define your starts with a marking gauge and then just cut to them with a rabbet plane, and then turn the rabbet plane on its side to square up the rabbet after it's cut to depth. No need for side rabbet planes or any of that stuff, those are for dados and grooves, and not rabbets.



151413177816

(there are a couple of moving fillisters in active auctions, but I think with a moving fillister, you *do* want a nicker, I only see one decent example in the UK and shipping is high). Loose boxing that is complete can easily be glued with liquid hide glue. You might have to watch a couple of weeks to get a good subject moving fillister plane. One with a good iron, boxing that is at least there, fence, nicker still there, and depth stop.

A few years ago, I got a moving fillister plane from fine tool journal's newsletter tool sale for $25. They described it as "dry". The boxing had worked loose from the plane, which was a quick reglue, true the side, sharpen the iron, oil the body (more for looks to make it look nice color again) and that was that.

[Eric Schatz]

Woodcraft has their medium shoulder for $119 right now. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I watched a video by one of the forum users the other day that suggested it was a good tool. Does anyone have it? http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/154032/woodriver-92-medium-shoulder-plane.aspx

[David Weaver]

Is this for cutting small rabbets or for shoulder work? If it's for shoulder work, I haven't used it but woodcraft has a generous return policy as far as I'm aware, and you can send it back if you don't like it.

[Eric Schatz]

Is this for cutting small rabbets or for shoulder work? If it's for shoulder work, I haven't used it but woodcraft has a generous return policy as far as I'm aware, and you can send it back if you don't like it.

This would be for rebates. I would probably give it a go on shoulders also until I get a router plane but frankly I don't do very much M&T work. I mostly build small boxes and and just starting to get into casing.

[David Weaver]

I don't think you want a shoulder plane just for rebates. Metal planes are sticky, especially going across endgrain. And the aforementioned feeding issue. If you lived next door to me, I'd help you refurbish a $10 rabbet plane or a $50-$75 moving fillister.

Shoulder planes are one of the #1 dust collectors among planes sold to people, because you cut a dozen or so grooves with them and realize that they're not really designed for that, from chip clearing to how they're supposed to be gripped. They do fine cleaning up a sloppily cut rabbet (where the focus isn't on removing much material), but they're not a great plane to cut rabbets with.

[Jim Koepke]

Here's My
301865.

From the post that started this thread:


I'm needing this to true up box lids that sit inside of the top and other similar things. Not really planning on using it for shoulders much. I just use a chisel for that work. The box tops are longer and need more precision than a standard BE chisel.

This sounds like light trimming work. This is the kind of work a shoulder plane is very good at performing.

If my understanding is wrong and Eric wants to cut deep and long rabbets, then a different plane might be indicated.

My only worry about the Woodcraft listing is there isn't a spare blade listed with the plane. Maybe they list it somewhere else. It may just be me, but I like having spare blades for all my planes.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Yeah, fine for light trimming - I missed that. (a rabbet plane would do that too, though, and give you the ability to cut rabbets. Shoulders are the only thing I can think of where I'd actually want a shoulder plane instead of a rabbet plane (I had two shoulder planes and no longer have any, and I haven't missed them...well, that's not totally, true, I do have infill shoulder planes that I don't use, but they look nice.).

[Jim Koepke]

Yeah, fine for light trimming - I missed that. (a rabbet plane would do that too, though, and give you the ability to cut rabbets.

For the light trim jobs and even some jobs a little more involved my shoulder plane gets used. If there is a lot of material to be removed, then the bigger rabbets pop out of their holes.

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

It's out of the price range you specified but I'm really happy with the gently used Veritas medium shoulder plane I recently bought from a Creeker. Perhaps you could drop a hint to you wife that an LV (or Visa/MC) gift card wouldn't be amiss. You could put it toward a shoulder plane as I did last year. The gift card from my wife went toward my #4 smoother.

Veritas planes are the bomb...