Mobile Bases: Why always two fixed/two swivel?

[Augusto Orosco]

Why aren't there any 4 swivel caster mobile bases out in the market place? All the ones I have seen have 2 fixed and 2 swivel. For very heavy equipment, this becomes a limiting factor, since you have to move your machine back and forth if you go in the direction not supported by the swivel. I remember having to steer my 8" jointer flush with a back wall, just as you would do it trying to parallel park a car in a tight spot.

I know swivel casters are more expensive than fixed ones, but I would gladly pay the difference for the convenience. Or is there any safety (tipping risk) or physics considerations (can't move it in a straight line because all wheels just swivel around) that make them not recommended?

Just wondering.... :rolleyes:

[ken masoumi]

My only guess is,to stop the cart/base from going sideways (very much like Ikea shopping carts which drives me nuts),other than that ,I don't get it either,I have a small shop with a cracked floor,imagine going 7-8 times over the bumps back and forth so I can put a heavy jointer against the wall.

I just realized,another reason other than the higher cost of swivel casters,you will need 4 locking levers instead of 2.I would still pay the difference to get a comfortable mobile base .

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My Sawstop base has 4 swivels, and it is very well appreciated. To answer the question, the shopping cart comes to mind also.... LOL. I would much rather have 4 swivels than 2. I put 4 on my lathe, but everything else has only 2 and that is rather annoying, back and forth, back and forth to manuever into exactly where you want it. Oh sorry, you already know that..... Yeah, I don't get it either. At least they should offer an option to buy 4 or 2.

[David Nelson1]

I built a cart for my 20 planer and 8 inch jointer. 4 X 4 construction with 1/2 laps and 4 casters with brakes. Planer was a PITA to move tipping the scales @ 900 lbs try rocking it to get all the wheels pointed in one direction. even then it would crab walk on ya. Made a handle to drag it that did work either.

The best I have seen was the mobility accessories that are offered by Luguna, MM, Felder etc. Jacks one side up with a Johnson bar the other side has fixed wheels. Beachside Hank (may have gotten his handle wrong) posted one he made for a lunch box planer convertible. I think he had a rigid OS mounted on the other side.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Ha, my first thought was those darn Ikea shopping carts too! I was just there the other day and it was such a PITA to keep the cart moving forward in a straight line. haha

I think of it this way: if you have unlimited space, 2 swivel/2 fixed caster bases are far easier to maneuver. Like with a shopping cart, you steer by pulling one arm toward your body and/or pushing the other away from your body while pushing the cart forward. The two fixed casters, which are nearest to you, won't allow that end of the cart to roll sideways (or swivel), allowing the opposing force you're creating to translate into steering the front of the cart.

With 4 swivel casters, when you try to apply that lateral movement to steer it, the casters nearest to you will swivel. They don't allow you to apply the opposing force that makes the thing steer.

However, when you're limited on space, you may have no choice but to go with 4 swivel casters... because you may not have enough room to maneuver the cart otherwise (i.e., parallel park a machine vs just rolling it into its place).

So if I had a massive shop, I'd go with 2 swivel/2 fixed every time. If not, 4 swivels is a fair compromise, but it will be hard on your "core" because you'll need to rotate your torso while you push in order to steer the thing.

[Phil Barrett]

you'd need to have the kind of casters that lock both roll and swivel to get a solid base. I'm pretty sure that even with that, the base when fully locked, would not be as stable. There is always some play.

And, I agree that 4 swivels would make rolling pretty difficult. Having 2 wheels in a fixed direction actually improves rolling stability.

The johnson bar approach provides more stability to the machine though it does require more space and you have to get the bar,move the tool and put the bar back. I use this for a shear/brake that weights about 450lbs. However, I find myself not moving it very much because it takes a bit more time and I am impatient. Easier to jack up one of the other tools and move it.

[Max Neu]

I have 2 drywall carts that I use for plywood, one has 2 swivel wheels, the other has 4.The one with just 2 swivel wheels drives me crazy, I would have never bought it if I knew ahead of time how hard it would be to maneuver around the shop with it.

[Bill McNiel]

I build my own mobile bases, all with four swivels. The worst factory mobile base was on the 25/50 SuperMax, all four straight line casters. Try locating that in the average space deprived shop.

[Rod Sheridan]

Why aren't there any 4 swivel caster mobile bases out in the market place? All the ones I have seen have 2 fixed and 2 swivel.
Just wondering.... :rolleyes:

Lack of directional stability with heavy loads.

The best mobile bases are the semi-live skid designs with a tow bar.

You see them on European machinery a lot.

I make all my bases that way............Rod.

[David Nelson1]

I build my own mobile bases, all with four swivels. The worst factory mobile base was on the 25/50 SuperMax, all four straight line casters. Try locating that in the average space deprived shop.

Now that is stupid!

[Jerome Stanek]

Lack of directional stability with heavy loads.

The best mobile bases are the semi-live skid designs with a tow bar.

You see them on European machinery a lot.

I make all my bases that way............Rod.

My drywall carts have 4 swivel wheels and one that has a lock that you can lock straight or at 90% and they hold 2000 lbs

[Peter Quinn]

I have a few machines on 4 swivels, Great Lakes casters, a performax 22/44 on dual locking swivels, most machines are two fixed/2 swivels. The 4 way swivels are easier to park but much harder to move, it's a bit like ice skating with a dancing bear, doesn't always follow you or go where you wanted exactly, you have coax them as much as lead them. My planer is on 4 swivels, those are way over capacitated, so it's more of a semi mobile approach, doesn't have to move far. I can see a purpose for both types. That euro Johnson bar set up is maybe my least favorite method, we have that on a BS at work....it's not for the faint of heart lifting a #600 BS with a class II lever and dragging over a slippery smooth but often less than perfectly clean concrete floor. It's like parallel parking a dump truck with a hockey stick.

[glenn bradley]

In my limited experience, four swivel caters are OK on light things; like under 100lbs. I replaced the "rear" swivels with fixed casters on more than one heavy object. Four swivels on a 450lb machine would lack control in my hands and end up banging into things while I struggle to direct it to where it is going (love the ice skating with a dancing bear analogy :D). I agree that for initial placement in difficult situations, four swivels allow diagonal movement. When I am guiding my drum sander between my jointer and planer I am trying to avoid diagonal movement and don't want to have to do that via my muscles. For small lateral adjustment I use a pry bar but, these situations do not come into play when I am moving a machine from a stored location into an operating position. I am lucky to have enough room (although not a lot of room) so that I only need to move machines a few feet to place them in the operating position. Different strokes.

[Augusto Orosco]

. Different strokes.

I guess, that's what I was getting at. I see uses for both, but seems to me that that if you want to buy a mobile base, your only option is two fixed/two swivel. So, I was wondering if I was the only one who would be interested in such a thing, and there is no demand for it. I can certainly see the "ice skating with a polar bear" issue, though; but that's probably less important (I think) when you want the base not to move the machine long distance, but simply to pull it away from the wall a little so you have better clearances.

It's quite interesting to hear all your experiences, though!

[Rick Potter]

Two reasons, from my shop situation.

1: I have a 37" Woodmaster drum sander that I shove perpendicular against a wall. When I need it, I pull it out about 4', then shove it back in. It is 1000 pounds or so, and I would never get it in and out straight with four swivels.

2: I have a couple of carts that I use to bring wood and other stuff from the driveway to the shop...100' or so. There are various slight slopes on the concrete for drainage. The four wheel swivel cart is constantly trying to go downhill, and I end up chasing it rather than just pushing it, like I do with the two wheel swivel cart. I almost tipped my top heavy Shopsmith (4 swivels), moving it from the driveway to the shop.

On the other hand, super tight access is possible with four swivels, and sometimes desired.

Your mileage may vary,
Rick P

[Peter Aeschliman]

My take, having read all of these comments:

Light items: 4 swivel casters is best for easy maneuverability, Johnson bar is also good you're a euro kind of guy/gal
Heavy items: It's a toss-up between johnson bar and 2 swivel/2 fixed. Johnson bar might be a little freaky for tall machines (bandsaw), but best for machines with a lower center of gravity. But if you have limited room, Johnson bar is probably best. 4 swivel casters will work, but you'll need some muscle and patience.

I know some disagree, but that's my take on the general consensus.

[glenn bradley]

My take, having read all of these comments:

Light items: 4 swivel casters is best for easy maneuverability, Johnson bar is also good you're a euro kind of guy/gal
Heavy items: It's a toss-up between johnson bar and 2 swivel/2 fixed. Johnson bar might be a little freaky for tall machines (bandsaw), but best for machines with a lower center of gravity. But if you have limited room, Johnson bar is probably best. 4 swivel casters will work, but you'll need some muscle and patience.

I know some disagree, but that's my take on the general consensus.

I will add (from experience) that you need room to use the Johnson bar and should factor that in to your floor plan.

[Peter Quinn]

My absolute favorite method is a pallet jack, assuming you have the room to operate it. It combines the best aspects of 2 fixed/2 swivel and the johnson bar set up, and articulates nearly as well as 4 swivels, assuming the machine base can accommodate the pallet jack. I have an almost #800 shaper I need to mobilize, haven't really found a great way to do it, it needs to be rock solid in use. I regret that more machines aren't set up to accept a pallet jack. My shaper was on a few blocks at the shop where I bought it, they moved it around with a low profile narrow pallet jack, what a breeze to move. I have done similar in the past at work, but then you have to have a place to store the pallet jack!

[David Kumm]

My two cents. A good pallet jack- most often narrow- is very handy if you have room to maneuver the 4' long forks and the weight is under 2000 lbs. Two hard white wheels and a lifting bar is great for shapers, combo machines, heavy stuff that has a good way to attach the lifting bar. If you go with four swivel, have them be Zambus type casters rated for way more than the weight of the machine. If the machine is over 1000 lbs I use the 1650 or 2200 lb ones. They work much better than the 600 or 1000 lb wheels. The worst choice for heavy machines are rubber covered swivel wheels. They will always be pointed in the wrong direction and you will need to turn them with a wrench laying on the floor. Anything under 500 lbs is so easy to deal with you can use either fixed or swivel.

[Myk Rian]

I just realized,another reason other than the higher cost of swivel casters,you will need 4 locking levers instead of 2..
A piece of rope around the wheels, on the floor stops it from wandering.

[Cary Falk]

A piece of rope around the wheels, on the floor stops it from wandering.

Or an extension cord.:mad: :D. I make all of my moblie bases just so I can have all 4 wheels swivel. I have to fit my tools into a jig saw puzzle on 1 car portion of a 3 car garage when I m done for the day. Two fixed and 2 swivel wheels would make that very difficult.

[Robert Chapman]

The SawStop Industrial base has four swivel casters and is raised and lowered by a foot pedal operating an hydraulic jack. When raised all four casters allow unlimited maneuvering. When lowered the saw sits on the floor. In my opinion it is far and away the best mobile base on the planet.

[Art Mulder]

Let me echo what has been said: In a small shop, 4 swivel wheels are far easier to maneuver.
In a large shop, the 2+2 design works better.)


I just realized,another reason other than the higher cost of swivel casters,you will need 4 locking levers instead of 2.

Nope.

In my experience, Ken, I typically lock only ONE wheel under my Tablesaw or Jointer. On rare occasions I will lock two.

[Ole Anderson]

Don't have much to add other than both types have their place. I recently made an 8' long push cart for four stacks of stackable chairs. Put castors at each corner and straight wheels in the middle. Much easier to steer, but even harder to push up against a wall.

[ray hampton]

4 or 6 swivel wheels on a cart is okay IF you got a helper to pull the cart from the front while you push the cart

[Mike Cutler]

The worst are the "tripod" models, 2 fixed in front, one swiveling in the back. I have 3 of them and if I had to always move the machines on them, I would have none of them.
I have a mixture of all in my garage shop. The heaviest mobile base being 4 swivels to move a 1500#+ Jointer. It's only got 4 swivels because I have to maneuver it in a small area. It wants to go just about any direction other than absolutely straight.

Plywood/lumber cart is 6 wheels. Two fixed wheels in the center, swivels on the ends. It doesn't move with all 6 on the ground. There are only 4 on the ground at any one time. The two in the center, and one of the end pairs. You can just about spin it in a circle in place.

[ray hampton]

The worst are the "tripod" models, 2 fixed in front, one swiveling in the back. I have 3 of them and if I had to always move the machines on them, I would have none of them.
I have a mixture of all in my garage shop. The heaviest mobile base being 4 swivels to move a 1500#+ Jointer. It's only got 4 swivels because I have to maneuver it in a small area. It wants to go just about any direction other than absolutely straight.

Plywood/lumber cart is 6 wheels. Two fixed wheels in the center, swivels on the ends. It doesn't move with all 6 on the ground. There are only 4 on the ground at any one time. The two in the center, and one of the end pairs. You can just about spin it in a circle in place.

I beg your pardon BUT IT will move with all 6 wheels on the ground BUT two of the wheels will be scuffing the floor and moving a lock wheel takes a lot of calories

[Mike Cutler]

Ray

I didn't word that sentence correctly. I guess I should have said that it doesn't require all 6 wheels too move.
The design of the cart is such that the two center wheels make the center of the cart higher than the ends. If you could balance it perfectly, both of the end sets of wheels would not be in contact with the ground. The ends "teeter totter" on the center set. There are always only 4 wheels in contact with the ground,with the center set always being two of the four.
I guess you could make all 6 swivel. I've just never seen one like that.

[Mike Cutler]

Ray

I didn't word that sentence correctly. I guess I should have said that it doesn't require all 6 wheels too move.
The design of the cart is such that the two center wheels make the center of the cart higher than the ends. If you could balance it perfectly, both of the end sets of wheels would not be in contact with the ground. The ends "teeter totter" on the center set. There are always only 4 wheels in contact with the ground,with the center set always being two of the four.
I guess you could make all 6 swivel. I've just never seen one like that.

[ray hampton]

Ray

I didn't word that sentence correctly. I guess I should have said that it doesn't require all 6 wheels too move.
The design of the cart is such that the two center wheels make the center of the cart higher than the ends. If you could balance it perfectly, both of the end sets of wheels would not be in contact with the ground. The ends "teeter totter" on the center set. There are always only 4 wheels in contact with the ground,with the center set always being two of the four.
I guess you could make all 6 swivel. I've just never seen one like that.

I seen some carts with 5 or more wheels and the extra wheels would track wrong and scuff the floor and the carts that I use would not balance but rock from one end wheel to the other end

[jack forsberg]

just make some 45 cuts in ply like this. that what i use and there great

http://i41.tinypic.com/egtxl2.jpg


http://i43.tinypic.com/2edw1kx.jpg





My only guess is,to stop the cart/base from going sideways (very much like Ikea shopping carts which drives me nuts),other than that ,I don't get it either,I have a small shop with a cracked floor,imagine going 7-8 times over the bumps back and forth so I can put a heavy jointer against the wall.

I just realized,another reason other than the higher cost of swivel casters,you will need 4 locking levers instead of 2.I would still pay the difference to get a comfortable mobile base .

[William C Rogers]

My MiniMax J/P is on a 3 wheel base. It is home made I guess as I bought it used. It is a very good base for a 700'pound machine. Only the front wheel swivels. Big 5" ball bearing wheels and is fairly easy to maneuver. There are screws behind the fixed back wheels (looks like he used a couple of large C clamp screws) to hold it in place. Made of heavy angle iron.

[Keith Weber]

I build my own mobile bases, all with four swivels. The worst factory mobile base was on the 25/50 SuperMax, all four straight line casters. Try locating that in the average space deprived shop.


Now that is stupid!

That depends! I'm actually building a mobile base for my widebelt sander just like that (4 fixed wheels, all pointed in the side to side direction.) I plan on keeping the widebelt sander up against the wall when it is not in use. To use it, I need to pull it out from the wall about 30" to clear the tools next to it along the wall. When I'm done using it, it will roll back against the wall. I really only want it to move side to side along that line perpendicular to the wall. If a time comes when I need to move it in a different direction (rare), I'll be able to move it will a pallet jack between the casters on each end.

My HF engine hoist has 4 swivel casters. That thing has a mind of its own when I try to move it!

[Jim Finn]

When I worked in construction we used four wheeled carts to move our tools, ladders, and material around the work sites. (Industrial, in-plant work) I found that if I had three swivel casters and one fixed, I could turn very sharply and still not have the issue of the cart wondering to the side as it was pushed. Worked well for me.

[ken masoumi]

In my experience, Ken, I typically lock only ONE wheel under my Tablesaw or Jointer. On rare occasions I will lock two.


A piece of rope around the wheels, on the floor stops it from wandering.


Or an extension cord.:mad: :D. I make all of my moblie bases just so I can have all 4 wheels swivel. .


just make some 45 cuts in ply like this. that what i use and there great

http://i41.tinypic.com/egtxl2.jpg



The timing of this thread is perfect,I have 4 medium duty swivel wheels that I bought to make a mobile base but wasn't sure how to stop it from rolling temporarily,I like the ramp style chocks ,.or I can buy 2 lockable casters now that I know it will do the job.