Another reason to hate win8.1, suggestions?

[Kev Williams]

Here's my latest issue: I open an explorer window, then open my camera's memory stick to check new pics, view set to THUMBNAILS. There's about a dozen pics I want to cut & paste to another folder on my network. But, when I open a second explorer window and open the second file, then half the thumbnails on the stick folder disappear, and the view options are grayed out, can't change them. And the second folder opens with view set to "list", and it's also locked... ???

This is no-brainer stuff for XP. But 8.1 can't figure out how to display thumnails in 2 folder windows??

As long as I open ONE window, I can do whatever I want. As soon as the second window is open, the view option on both folders is locked. Moving to sub-folders makes no change. I've searched google for some sort of answer, so far zilch.

Any ideas? I'm about ready to just install XP in this thing, or use it for target practice. I've found Windows 8(.1) to be about as useless as can of sand...

[glenn bradley]

Didn't you read the disclaimer that using your computer for anything other than surfing the web, checking email or using Facebook qualifies you as a power user :)? Power users have to use Windows 7. Stop trying to do such demanding, bleeding edge activities like opening more than one explorer window at a time . . . jeez! :D Pathetic, ain't it?

[Art Mann]

Microsoft is trying to migrate their user interface to a smartphone like operating system. I can't understand the rationale for that. If I want a glorified tablet OS, I will buy a Chromebook.

[Michael Weber]

Hated 8 on a computer given to me so installed "Start 8" http://www.classicstart8.com/ Like it a lot and I can open multiple windows but don't know if it will solve your particular problem.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I've found Windows 8(.1) to be about as useless as can of sand...

That's selling the sand short I think.

[Duane Meadows]

Can't say on 8.1. Can say I don't have that issue on either 7 or on 10 tech preview.

[Rick Potter]

Wow, I thought it was just my stupidity. I can hardly post photos with the new computer.

Rick P

[Chris Parks]

xplorer2 is the answer http://zabkat.com/x2lite.htm

A twin pane file manager that simply works and no additional windows needed.

[Curt Harms]

I'm not sure about licensing here. A license for a Windows version used to also permit installation of previous Windows versions. There is a way to download and install a legit version of Windows 7 if you already have a license. I don't know if a Windows 8 key would activate Windows 7. Here is a link to a Microsoft site for Win7 downloads. Being a Microsoft site, I believe it to be legit.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/cannot-find-digital-river-download-site/66a8439b-0d16-4b70-92f7-1c8486a46ebf

[David Weaver]

A new harddrive and an OEM version of windows 7 would be the way I'd go. I've had about 20 minutes of exposure to windows 8, just trying to install AVG for my dad, and using it a little bit at work, and instead of growing on me over those 20 minutes, I'd say things went the other way.

They would do themselves good to give the next version option of 7 type functionality and if they want it to look like a tablet, they can add that, too. I realize it's not that easy, but some of us work on a computer all day every day. Productivity problems are problems for real.

[Brian Elfert]

The typical issue with downgrading a Windows 8/8.1 PC to Windows 7 is drivers for Windows 7 may not be available for everything in the PC. Sometimes new components come out and they never write Windows 7 drivers since they only intend the PC to run Windows 8/8.1.

I wasn't aware you could still download a Windows 7 ISO. I had read that Microsoft had turned that off a while back. Maybe they got too many complaints and they let people download the ISOs again.

[Greg R Bradley]

The typical issue with downgrading a Windows 8/8.1 PC to Windows 7 is drivers for Windows 7 may not be available for everything in the PC. Sometimes new components come out and they never write Windows 7 drivers since they only intend the PC to run Windows 8/8.1.

I wasn't aware you could still download a Windows 7 ISO. I had read that Microsoft had turned that off a while back. Maybe they got too many complaints and they let people download the ISOs again.
Windows 8 virtually does not exist for business computers. It isn't a change back toward Win7. They never went toward Win8.

Windows 8 was released two years ago but the number of business computer models that ship with Win8 is still below 2%. That is 2% of the computer models available, but those units barely sell leaving the quantity of business computers shipping with Win8 installed way below that. Two years after Win8 introduction the current lineup of HP low end units have less than 4% models with Win8 installed, mid range units below 2%, and the higher end Windows units at 0%. Of course, all those units ship with a Win8 license and media in case MS ever makes Win8 actually work for more than browsing the web, email, and sharing you pictures.

I think most people don't understand that the stores selling computers are selling consumer electronics, not business computers. There is far more profit in their planned obsolescence, lack of driver support, and nonsense marketing. Perhaps MS knows what they are doing. New business computers already are almost 100% Win7 so they have no market to gain. They seem to be after the phone, tablet, and home PC market. The people installing computers for a business are supposed to know what they are doing and aren't fooled.

[Myk Rian]

I'm with the "Install Win 7" crowd. Win8 is for touch screen, and it's crappy at that also.
After returning an HP Win8 machine to Staples, I went to Micro Center and bought a Win7 computer. It came with Win8 discs which will never get used.

[Brian Elfert]

Windows 8 virtually does not exist for business computers. It isn't a change back toward Win7. They never went toward Win8.


Correct, most business computers still ship with Windows 7. However, that is not the case with the majority of laptops sold to consumers at the retail level. A number of computers shipped with only Windows 8 and not also shipped with Windows 7 will have driver problems if Windows 7 is installed. I bought a computer right when Windows Vista came out. I put Windows XP on it, but I had a heck of a time getting XP to work because of a lack of XP drivers for some of the hardware.

My father is looking for a Dell laptop with Windows 7. Dell really only has one model with Win 7 on the consumer side, but they have a lot of them on the business side. Dell charges a $50 to $100 premium to get Windows 7 on a home model. The business models are almost all more expensive than the home models. One way or the other he will pay more for a new laptop with Windows 7 on it unless he looks for a used one.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Correct, most business computers still ship with Windows 7.

Which is a telling point: The high-paid corporate tech crowd wants nothing to do with this turkey. There is not enough Help Desk budget $$ short of Bill Gate's bank account to encourage them. THey have spent the last 2 decades getting the dorporate personnel to move past the "nimrod" status on laptop operstions, and they ain't gonna restart that nighmare.

I recently got a new laptop - a Dell, frim the business product line. To get the features I wanted, I ended up with a model that only came with W7, plus W8 installed.

Which is OK - no where, EVER, have I ben promted by anything to see if I wanted to ruin my life by monkeying around with W8. I assume it is there somewhere, because that's what they told me.

[Chris Parks]

At least one national corporate I know of is still using xp and has no intention of updating.

[Curt Harms]

The typical issue with downgrading a Windows 8/8.1 PC to Windows 7 is drivers for Windows 7 may not be available for everything in the PC. Sometimes new components come out and they never write Windows 7 drivers since they only intend the PC to run Windows 8/8.1.

I wasn't aware you could still download a Windows 7 ISO. I had read that Microsoft had turned that off a while back. Maybe they got too many complaints and they let people download the ISOs again.

Yes, it was turned off for a while then turned back on. If a Win 7 driver isn't available for a particular piece of hardware thru Microsoft, what's the liklihood of one being available from the component manufacturer? I've not had to deal with this bit of happiness so no experience.

For desktop machines, this is one reason to build my own. I make sure the motherboard I'm using supports the operating system I want to install. This is not an option with HP, Dell, Lenovo et. al.

[Myk Rian]

At least one national corporate I know of is still using xp and has no intention of updating.
They will, eventually.

[DOUG ANGEL]

Try going to US micro for a refurbished laptop. For instance HP Elite Book 8440p 2.4 gig. Win 7 Pro 64 bit $319 FREE SHIPPING, and extra warranty available. I've had good luck with my HP desktop from there. Win 7 Pro is stable and intuitive.
HP EliteBook 8440p Intel i5 Refurbished Laptop
HP EliteBook 8440p 2.4GHz Core i5 DVD-RW Windows WiFi 14.1" Laptop Notebook - See more at: http://www.usmicrocorpretail.com/p-182-hp-elitebook-8440p-24ghz-core-i5-dvd-rw-windows-wifi-141-laptop-notebook.aspx#sthash.3G4X2YbG.dpuf
HP EliteBook 8440p 2.4GHz Core i5 DVD-RW Windows WiFi 14.1" Laptop Notebook - See more at: http://www.usmicrocorpretail.com/p-182-hp-elitebook-8440p-24ghz-core-i5-dvd-rw-windows-wifi-141-laptop-notebook.aspx#sthash.3G4X2YbG.dpuf

[Brian Elfert]

I'm reasonably certain those refurbished units are actually lease returns. This means some business leased them for one to three years and then returned them at the end of the lease. For me, I'm little leery of lease return laptops like these. I work in corporate IT and laptops often are dirty and nasty from users not taking care of them. I also noticed they don't warranty the batteries at all. Some employees will never unplug their laptops which in two to three years will totally kill the batteries.

I would buy a factory refurbished computer that is basically new no problem. My current and previous home PCs are from the Dell Outlet. I would shy away from a refurbished lease return unless the price was practically free.

[Duane Meadows]

Don't have any experience with refurb from lease laptops, but I have purchased 5 or so(not all for me, by the way... come to think of it, none were for me!) desktops that way. have yet to have a problem with any of them. The last one, I was thinking of just doing CPU/MB/ram upgrade, but the whole computer with Win 7 Pro, mouse and, keyboard was $169.99. Couldn't do the upgrade for that, not even discounting my time!

[Brian Elfert]

I should clarify that I would only stay away from off lease laptops. Off lease desktops I wouldn't have as big an issue with because they don't take the same type of abuse. I see prices all over the map for these from dirt cheap to "Are you kidding, I could buy a new one for that price!".

[paul cottingham]

Simple fix.
1) format the drive using the /u option. not a necessary step, but a satisfying one.
2) install Ubuntu. Or some other flavor of Linux.
3) enjoy.
4) you're welcome.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[Larry Browning]

At least one national corporate I know of is still using xp and has no intention of updating.

Well, the company I work for has banned XP from it's network. No computer or device running XP is allowed to connect to the network under any circumstance. We had several testers and other machines on our manufacturing floor that had to be replaced due to this rule. We spent many thousands of dollars and man hours to comply.

[Curt Harms]

Simple fix.
1) format the drive using the /u option. not a necessary step, but a satisfying one.
2) install Ubuntu. Or some other flavor of Linux.
3) enjoy.
4) you're welcome.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

That might be a problem if someone needs a laser driver or similar. Hardware support is the only reason I keep a supported copy of Windows around. And for replacing a dysfunctional/infected Windows install, DBAN (Darik's Boot And Nuke) or better before installing a new O.S.

[Brian Elfert]

Well, the company I work for has banned XP from it's network. No computer or device running XP is allowed to connect to the network under any circumstance. We had several testers and other machines on our manufacturing floor that had to be replaced due to this rule. We spent many thousands of dollars and man hours to comply.

I wish the IT department I work for could force this issue like that. Most XP machines are gone, but we still have Windows 2000 running inside of some robotic vehicles. The $80,000 to replace the computers in the vehicles never gets funded. Of course, the folks supporting the manufacturing equipment wanted to replace the computers with ones running XP.

[paul cottingham]

That might be a problem if someone needs a laser driver or similar. Hardware support is the only reason I keep a supported copy of Windows around. And for replacing a dysfunctional/infected Windows install, DBAN (Darik's Boot And Nuke) or better before installing a new O.S.

DBAN is fantastic. We all carried it around on one of many bootable rescue disks my partner and I (mostly him, frankly) developed.
We had trouble with some hardware with Linux, but most was fine, even lasers. We had a couple installs where we just used VMware (more often the open source alternative) to run any proprietary hardware or software that needed Windows. Usually we needed that to run older windows apps in windows. Forward compatabilty of windows apps was always so terrible.

[Curt Harms]

If hardware support is up to snuff on the VM stuff, that sure seems like a nice solution to the 'Windows X.X doesn't support my megabuck device' conundrum. I've experimented with Virtual Box some because that's in Ubuntu's repositories. Windows installed in a VM seemed to run the stuff I tried - WordPerfect and other Windows-only software, printing, scanning - nicely. And someone who knew what they were doing (which excludes me:p) could probably install XP with little or no security risk to the host system. Just limit the VM guest O.S. - No Internet Access for You!!!

[paul cottingham]

All I would do is put the VMs in a specific, separate subnet. then ban that subnet from internet access at the router. BTW VirtualBox is a great, free virtual machine environment.

[Kev Williams]

I have 9 computers running at my shop at the moment. All are connected to the internet, 24-7...
2 are running Win98, because the ancient Casmate software they're running use an LPT port dongle, which won't work on XP...
5 are running XP, because 10 of the 13 machines I run in our shop are driven via drivers and LPT and/or serial ports, that are not supported by Win 7 or 8...
1 is running Win7 Enterprise 64 bit, it's in the garage, and runs my USB-connected laser engraver and CNC engraver.
1 (that I'm on now) is running 8.1, and all it does is run the only other USB connected CNC engraver sitting behind me...

The 98's don't even have antivirus software running, and their only firewall is whatever the cable modem does as a firewall. The one has been this way for like 5 years. No viruses, no hacks.

All other computers are running Avast free anti-virus software. I use the "JRT" junkware removal software to take care of malware. Best no-nonsense software I have...

The XP's firewalls are on, and Avast has caught any and all threats so far-- all of about 3 times since the great MS/XP divorce, and all threats came from downloading. Since these computers are now un-molested by MS, they continue to run like brand new. Maybe I'll get hacked, but I doubt it. Hacking an XP is like playing Pong... why bother?

The Win 7 is actually okay. Works fast, does what I want it to. However, it has no LPT or serial ports, but I guess I could add some.

2 of my 5 XP's came with Win7 Pro 64, and I couldn't get either one to run my machines, or run my 2005 Quickbooks program without crashing, or even run my HP 3050 all-in-one printer. Out went 7, in went XP.

And then there's this 64 bit 8.1 turd I'm using right now... An HP Pavillion, running a quad AMD A8 chip and 8 gigs of ram, and the stupid thumbnail issue is looking like the tip of the iceberg. Every day it takes longer and longer to load a simple Firefox browser window. Corel loads slower every day. Even plain old file folders are opening slower every day. And I do NOTHING with this thing except spend a few minutes on the web each day, work with a few pictures for customers (which I ultimately edit on one of my XP's because it's faster), and run my Gravostyle software and the engraving machine. That's IT. No games, no downloading movies or music, nothing. I have auto updates turned off and only let it load what I thinks it should. Yet every day this thing noticeably slows down.

And there'll be no Windows 9, just a jump to 10. Kinda like there being no '83 Corvette. History doomed to repeat itself? ;)

[Larry Browning]

I know everyone loves to bash Windows 8, but my experience has been much different than Kev's. I have it installed on both my computers at my house and have found it to be very stable and fast compared to previous versions. It boots fast and runs fast for me. I am not a big fan of the tiles, so I installed a little utility called Startisback and haven't looked back ($3 for a 2 PC license). I have also installed the Technical Preview of Windows 10 in VMware, and it looks to be even better for a desktop user like me.

I just thought everyone needed to know that not everyone hates Windows 8.

[David Masters]

I just purchased a refurbished Lenovo laptop for my daughter for under $285 and you couldn't tell it from a new one. The laptop came with Windows 7 Pro, Intel i5 processor, 4 GB of memory, and a 320 GB hard drive. It even had the fingerprint reader. Only say this to convey that the laptop is a high end business model Thinkpad with plenty of power. I have no trouble buying refurbished when available. My experience has only been good. In fact, there is a refurbished Nikon D810 under the tree that saved $800 over a new one. You couldn't tell the difference.

[Brian Elfert]

I just purchased a refurbished Lenovo laptop for my daughter for under $285 and you couldn't tell it from a new one. The laptop came with Windows 7 Pro, Intel i5 processor, 4 GB of memory, and a 320 GB hard drive. It even had the fingerprint reader. Only say this to convey that the laptop is a high end business model Thinkpad with plenty of power. I have no trouble buying refurbished when available. My experience has only been good. In fact, there is a refurbished Nikon D810 under the tree that saved $800 over a new one. You couldn't tell the difference.

Nothing wrong with factory refurbished laptop. My laptop is a factory refurbished Dell business model. Even my stereo receiver is a refurb. I just don't like the refurbished lease return laptops. They have been used and abused for a number of years before they are refurbished and the refurbishing isn't by the manufacturer.

[Larry Browning]

Nothing wrong with factory refurbished laptop. My laptop is a factory refurbished Dell business model. Even my stereo receiver is a refurb. I just don't like the refurbished lease return laptops. They have been used and abused for a number of years before they are refurbished and the refurbishing isn't by the manufacturer.

Let me say right up front here, I have no previous experience with Macbooks or any flavor of a Mac. In fact I am pretty much an Apple hater.
So with that said, I recently had the "opportunity" to help with the purchase of a Macbook Air as a Christmas present for my grandson. I am considered to be the computer guru of my family, ( I know, pretty sad if I am the computer expert in the family!) so I was elected to find the best deal on one. For the one he needs for school a new one costs $899, period. Not much need in shopping around, that's the price. However I did find an off lease refurb for $549, but after reading Brian's comments I realized that not all refurbs are created equal. Not only was the $549 one off lease, it had virtually no warranty. I looked on Apple's site and found a factory refurb for $769, but it was fully refurbished and the warranty was the same as a new one. We decided to go with the factory refurbished and it arrived in perfect condition completely repackaged like a new one. I think we made the right decision.
I still have a problem with getting an 11 year old an $800 anything, but I guess that's just me! They tell me his school requires it for next school year. If it were my kid, I would be looking for a new school! Ok, i guess if he HAS to have it for school, but an Apple! Really? What is this world coming to?

[Curt Harms]

Ok, i guess if he HAS to have it for school,

If the school requires it, shouldn't they have some sort of bulk purchase discount or something? I haven't had to deal with this sort of thing so don't know. I did buy a Thinkpad X61 off Ebay that I assume was an off-lease machine. It didn't come with a hard drive which is normal for these. It did come with the caddy which is not typical. I had a spare hard drive so for $129 I have a nicely portable inexpensive machine. It IS something of a crap shoot though.

[Scott Shepherd]

Let me say right up front here, I have no previous experience with Macbooks or any flavor of a Mac. In fact I am pretty much an Apple hater.

How can you hate something you have no previous experience with? :D