Lock rabbet joint by hand?

[Reinis Kanders]

In the other thread Jim mentioned how he will do lock rabbet joint by hand when doing 20 drawers.
I found this picture on web for the lock rabbet.
How would one grove the endgrain for the front by hand? I could see cutting it then chiseling, but that would be rather slow, wouldn't it?

http://images.meredith.com/wood/images/a_111_1_1.gif

[David Weaver]

If they're close to the edge and you mark them with a knife on the outside line, you can cut them with a plow plane - esp. if you have one of the plows with a nicker. That's how I do mine when I repair a kitchen drawer. my drawer sides are poplar, 1/2" wide, and the lock rabbet is 1/2 of their width and square. That equates to a finger on the outside of the dado that's only about 1/8th thick, so they have to be made with some care so as not to blow the grain off of the end (which also could occur if you're removing waste with a chisel).

[Reinis Kanders]

I could see working for the sides, but how about the front, where the grove is sort of like a bridle joint with one side shorter? Would you grove the end grain with the plow plane?

[David Weaver]

Saw a rabbet and then saw and chisel (just guessing, I haven't had to cut that part of the joint, just the mating sides). I might even be inclined to saw both outside lines and then down the middle again (or two more times) since the work is across endgrain and the less wood left, the easier it will be.

[Reinis Kanders]

Thanks. That makes sense. Would be tedious though and not easy to fit, probably no faster then dovetailing, and my dovetails finally fit ok without much fidling. Just finished secret rabbet dovetail drawer and it was surprisingly easy in pine.

[David Weaver]

If you have a TS, it's obviously a fast joint to cut. I don't love the idea of doing a router in the end of the drawer there, though I guess a slotting bit would work well. I wouldn't have ever thought about doing parts of it with hand tools if I didn't have broken drawers.

[Jim Matthews]

Here's what has me thinking about the process.

I've got an old Clifton multiplane that might manage this.

I would like to have the HNT Gordon version, but it's more money than
I want to spend, at the moment.

It gets interesting about 6:00 into the video.

Remember, it's done with a 1/4" dado plane - nothing else.
10:27 to see what the joint should resemble, if I'm lucky.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frod5HJo4uM

[Reinis Kanders]

That was neat. Pricey plane though.

[Jim Matthews]

Too much money, for a specialty plane.

It's the side nickers that make it cut straight.
My multiplane only has one spur.

If it works, I'm money ahead.

If it doesn't work - I may consider using a router plane for the long grain grooves.

[David Weaver]

There is a SUPERB looking moseley dado plane on peebay from the UK right now, in 1/4 inch size. I don't know what's ideal for this operation since my drawers were made by machine and had tiny lock rabbetrs.

That UK dado is about 70 bucks, though, and thanks to the royal mail money extraction system, it'd be about 95 total to get it here.

[Judson Green]

Couldn't a guy make one of your down and dirty planes with a nicker? Or score/knife a shoulder?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?214301-Time-to-build-two-quickie-drawer-grooving-planes-step-by-step

[David Weaver]

You could. and you don't really need a depth stop if you have a brain and a mark. (no depth stop would mean no burnishing/marking on the sides of the dado to be planed out if the surface shows).

Old dado planes are sort of a pain to refurbish because the front and the back wooden sole are never linear in the later (more common planes). I think I have a quarter dado already, and though I love to make planes, I don't have great interest in making plow planes or dados because of the amount of work involved in cutting two irons from stock, two wedges, building in a depth stop, even if it were a simple wedge piece of wood that could be set...

For $90, i'm inclined to let someone else make that plane if it's perfect and fresh. Of course, careful watching for an old bench plane would negate the need to make those, too, but the little grooving planes like the type in that thread is quick and cheap to build and very useful....that would be something any reasonable person could build.

I *hope* someone buys that plane, because a 1/4" dado plane would be very useful on anything that was either 1/4" or more than twice 1/4". I wouldn't advocate such extravagance in a plane that was easier to make.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Man, I have an eighth inch dado plane that I lucked into for a song and actually got working and I love, but something in a more useable size like that 1/4 is tempting. I've had really good luck with UK sellers, can't remember if I've bought from that one before.

My dado plane (and my wooden, moving filletster) make cross grain work so much less tedious, and heck of quicker. The filletster in particular, I can't imagine living without.

[Reinis Kanders]

Well, I bought the plane that David mentioned. Will report back when I get it in a week or two. Looked nice in the images.

[David Weaver]

That saves me from getting yelled at, I guess. It looked like a NICE plane with no wear on it and really straight and clean, though...I'm kind of sad I didn't buy it, too :)

[Chris Friesen]

In the other thread Jim mentioned how he will do lock rabbet joint by hand when doing 20 drawers.

Nobody has mentioned it, but my first reaction would be to ask why anyone would bother. The lock rabbet is a joint designed to be cut by machine. If you're doing joints by hand you could probably do dovetails in the same amount of time and most people would like them better.

[Jim Matthews]

If it doesn't work out for you, send me a PM.

Perhaps I have something you might like, in trade.
I've got a couple dado planes in my "someday" stash
that could be coaxed back into service, meantime.

That Moseley is almost too pretty to use!

congratulations
(you suck)

[Jim Matthews]

Nobody has mentioned it because we don't point out the folly of our fellows.

I've cut three drawers, dovetailed all by hand.
It took me weeks.

I've got twenty to make.
Time is an issue, for some of us.

"The lock rabbet is a joint designed to be cut by machine."

Rubbish.

Bernard E. Jones describes it in "The complete woodworker" ca. 1910.
laid out and cut as shown in the HNT Gordon video.

A marking gauge, 1/4" chisel and the Dado plane are sufficient.
That defines elegance, to my way of thinking.

While there are other methods to make my twenty drawers -
including tablesaws, routers, CNC machining and well trained ferrets
this is the one I'm exploring.

If you're volunteering to cut dovetails for twenty kitchen drawers,
where shall I send the specifications?

It's for kitchen cabinetry, not a Federal period replica chest on chest.

[Reinis Kanders]

I was surprised to see it available after David's post and it did look nice. I mostly got it to see how well it works for grooving the endgrain.


If it doesn't work out for you, send me a PM.

Perhaps I have something you might like, in trade.
I've got a couple dado planes in my "someday" stash
that could be coaxed back into service, meantime.

That Moseley is almost too pretty to use!

congratulations
(you suck)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That saves me from getting yelled at, I guess. It looked like a NICE plane with no wear on it and really straight and clean, though...I'm kind of sad I didn't buy it, too :)

Me too… although part of me is glad someone else did.

[Jim Matthews]

I suppose that the sharpness of the blades will be the limiting factor.
The depth of the nickers on either side, and their alignment to the main
blade will be secondary, but nonetheless important.

In the video I linked, Terry Gordon puts a chisel mark
to some depth on the "exit" side of the cut - and still mentions blow out.

I suppose drawer sides should be made slightly larger, to account for this.

[David Weaver]

In the video I linked, Terry Gordon puts a chisel mark
to some depth on the "exit" side of the cut - and still mentions blow out.



No real way to avoid it blasting out a dado unless you clamp a piece of backer on the end of the drawer for that cut. I didn't pay attention to the video very well, but was wondering how you avoid tearout without spending extra time (like using a backer or precutting and chiseling the back end of the dado)

[Pat Barry]

The video was interesting. I counted a total of five dado planing operations per drawer side which would equate to 200 operations for your 20 drawers. No doubt the joints will be good but the wear and tear of doing 20 drawers will take a toll. The method also seems to be a bit fussy and not well suited to mass production. I think using it to make the drawers for a small kitchen hutch (3 drawers) would be great. For your 20 drawers I would use one of the the unspoken about on this forum methods and get the job done, especially because of the time crunch you are under. I think you will get equal satisfaction in the completed project and you will eliminate variables that will make your job slow and fraught with rework. If you do plow ahead (no pun intended) then please keep us updated with your progress and learnings as this will be interesting for many of us.