Plane needed for highly figured woods...

[Phil Winn]

I am looking for a high quality plane for highly figured woods such as
Quilted/Curly Koa, Quilted Mahogany, Figured Bubinga, Quilted/Curly Maple, etc. for table tops, cabinets,..

Lie-Nielson makes SO MANY...Scraping Planes, Smoothing Planes,
Scrapers,...

Questions:
1. I would love to purchase a beautifully working, very well made piece; is
Lie-Nielson "the" brand? Other makes? I love the look and the feel of well made and designed hand-tools...price is secondary...quality etc is primary.
2. Specific models? Do I need one to "smooth" woods to prevent tearing grain -doing the "rough" stuff, and another to do the "finish" work (before minimal sanding)?
3. I have a Tormak for sharpening tools....which sharpening system do I use
for planes? Norton combo stones? Scary Sharp system? Or ?
4. Any great books suggested?
Please either post, PM, or Email me.
Thanks,
Phil

[John Miliunas]

Phil, though I'm still a Newbie at the Neander thing, I have found my favorite for figured woods to be the LN 4-1/2 w/York pitch frog. That second part (the frog) is extremely important when the equation includes figured woods. I haven't done all the ones you speak of, but it's done phenomenal work on BE Maple and Curly Maple. I'm sure the more experienced will chime in, as well (I hope!) and some may tell you that a real high angle woodie also does well. No arguments, but I just like the "heavy metal" better myself. I also hear that the new LA smoother from Lee Valley with the steepest pitch iron does a remarkable job, as well. (Yes, that one's on my "list", as well!:) )Lots of folks use the Tormek with good results, though I still think the for plane irons, even most of them end up doing the final honing on something like stones or Scary Sharp. Again, preferences prevail and sharpening is one area with as many preferences as are the planes themselves. For plane irons, I've mainly settled on the Lee Valley MK.II honing jig and a set of Shaptons (1K, 2K, 5K & 8K). For chisels or my "rough use" blocks, I turn to the Veritas MKII power sharpener, although the powered unit does a bang-up job on irons, too!:) There are a couple really good books, but the titles/authors escape me right now. I'm sure someone will clue us in....:) :cool:

[Brad Olson]

I would suggest the new Bevel-up smoother from Veritas.

Click on my WW link in my profile for a review, but this is the first plane I have owned that does not result in tear out in Curly maple and Curly Jarra with very minimal set-up time. This is also the first plane I have had that can go from planing to finishing of curly maple without either sanding or scraping

This plane is about $185 delivered and an excellent value

Another option is that Steve Knight (of Knight toolworks) makes wooden smoothers with high angles and are supposed to be excellent for this work, but I have not yet had the opportunity to try one


Lie Nielsen makes a great 4 1/2, but I take issue with the price. I owned a regular angle version of the 4 1/2 and returned it after a month. It just didn't fit my $ spent to performance ratio. I had intended to buy the HA version of the LN 4 1/2 but it wasn't in stock at the place I returned the plane and at the time Veritas rumored release of the bevel-up smoother, so I figured for about $120 less, I'd give the new bevel up designs from Veritas a try and I am EXTREMELY pleased with the results.

The big advantage of bevel-up planes is that you can be more selective of your york-pitch angle of attack to balance between tear-out free cut and ease of pushing AND you get a much mechanical advantage against the blade for chatter free cut. Also you can open and clost the mouth much faster with this plane than a Bedrock/Bailey style plane

Other smooth planes I have tried and did not like for smoothing regular and figured woods include:

Antique stanley #3, LN LA Jack, LN LA Smoother, LN #4 1/2, Veritas #4

HTH

Brad

**Edit I also have the Veritas 112 scraping plane that works well (as does the LN version, virtually identical to the Veritas for a lot more $) and they work nice, but they are much slower than the Veritas bevel-up (super) smoother. The only reason I won't sell my 112 now is that it was a gift and still has its uses particularly in veneer work, where a regular plane is on the aggressive side

[Frank Martin]

... if you care more about performance than the looks. If you plan to spend several thousands, there are other options out there with which I have no experience. I "personally" prefer Veritas planes over the LN's with the exception of the low angle block plane (LABP). I sold my Veritas LABP because it was just too big for my hands. Got an LN LABP and happy with that. I have heard rumors that Rob Lee is thinking about a newly designed block plane supposedly smaller than their current offerings, which may change my block plane preference.
Good luck with whatever you decide to go with and please post your results/experience.

[Steve Wargo]

Phil,

I think you're on the right track with the with the idea of the LN 4 1/2 with 50 deg frog. When properly sharpened it will plane curly maple, curly cherry, or even some very nesty grained cocobolo all without tearout. The only plane I've used, and I've used a few, that does this job with less effort is a Clark & Williams high angle finish smoother. That is a true delight to use. IMHO low angle is not at all what you want in this situation. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but until someone shows up with a low angle smoother that performs better than any of my planes, I'll stick with the bevel down bench planes.

[Brad Olson]

Phil,

I think you're on the right track with the with the idea of the LN 4 1/2 with 50 deg frog. When properly sharpened it will plane curly maple, curly cherry, or even some very nesty grained cocobolo all without tearout. The only plane I've used, and I've used a few, that does this job with less effort is a Clark & Williams high angle finish smoother. That is a true delight to use. IMHO low angle is not at all what you want in this situation. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but until someone shows up with a low angle smoother that performs better than any of my planes, I'll stick with the bevel down bench planes.

You should try the bevel-up smoother from Veritas then. Its got bench planes beat in my book. They have also been discussing this on a Brittish WWing forum as well

Until you try it you shouldn't discount it is my mantra

[Alan Turner]

My smoother of choice for highly figured woods is an HNT Gordon. It is from Australia, but distributed in the US by Highland Hdwr. It is bedded at 60*, and the iron is 1/4" thick or so. The mouth is extremely tight. You can push it or pull it.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Brad. I think that one of the reasons that LN cost so much more than LV is the level of machining. I would guess that the raw materials cost pretty much the same so I believe that it comes down to the level of machining for the cost difference. Peter

[Marc Hills]

Phil,

I think you're on the right track with the with the idea of the LN 4 1/2 with 50 deg frog. . . . . IMHO low angle is not at all what you want in this situation. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but until someone shows up with a low angle smoother that performs better than any of my planes, I'll stick with the bevel down bench planes.

I'll preface this by saying that my first thought was also a LN 4 1/2 with the HA (or "York Pitch") frog.

That being said, I think people are getting a bit confused about the low angle aspect of these new planes from Veritas and L-N. The bedding angle is low, but the effective cutting angle can be the same, or higher, than those of traditional bench planes. The bevel is facing up, so how the blade is beveled during the initial sharpening process determines how it will perform when set to wood.

With the possible exception of how the chip breaker comes into play, a low angle bench plane with a steep bevel angle presenting at 50 degrees relative to the wood surface should perform no differently than a York Pitch smoother.

This does make me wonder about differing bevels on traditional, bevel down planes, but I'll start a new thread topic for that.

[walter stellwagen]

Lee valley also carries a wood smoother which came in second to a 2000 dollar infill in smoothing a wide variety of difficult woods in a recent test.The test included the ln4.5 and lots of infills. It is dirt cheap (aprox $40)
it is on their new products list twoards the end >May also be in the wooden planes section.

Walt

[Dan Forman]

Phil---

Check your PM box.

Dan

[Rich Tesoroni]

Lee valley also carries a wood smoother which came in second to a 2000 dollar infill in smoothing a wide variety of difficult woods in a recent test.The test included the ln4.5 and lots of infills. It is dirt cheap (aprox $40)
it is on their new products list twoards the end >May also be in the wooden planes section.

Walt

There was a discussion of this plane a few months ago:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19513

Rich

[Rye Crane]

Hi Phil,

I think the advice on using the LN 4 1/2 with the york pitch frog is great. I would also like to have you check out the Andersontools.com website. He is making infill planes that are absolutely beautiful. He charges about 100.00 per inch for his smoothers and you pick out the style and infill material.

Since we are in the big buck area, you may also want to check out the Ray Iles reproduction Norris indull smooth planes. You will find them at the "tools for working wood" catalogue They range from 750 up.

Then there is also Karl Holtey. His version of the Norris infill are truly in a class by themselves. And priced likewise. His miniature 1/2 scale is in the tools for working wood catalogue for 3895.00 plus shipping.

I have most of the L-N line and really love them. They work so well and are priced to be able to afford and use. I have used the Norton waterstones but just saw at a demo the new Lap Sharp LS 200. This model can be found at Japan woodworker.com site or the manufactures website is woodartistry.com

This machine looks like a 45 rpm record player but they are using psa abrasives down to 1 micron. Much better than either the Tormek or the sandpaper scary sharp methods. This way you end up without the bevel edge and preserve the heavier tool steel at the point where is it needed most. This system works really fast and from start to finish it takes just a few minutes to flatten the back, establish a bevel and then a micro bevel and hone it down to 1 micron. This is a really cool machine but pricey. It lists for about 600. plus the tool holder for 80. and if you want the jointer/planer fixture it adds another 200.+. So for about 1,000. you will have the best and easiest system available.

Best of Luck,
Rye Crane

[Rye Crane]

Phil,

I should have said about the Lap Sharp system "you end up without the "hollow" bevel edge that the Tormek produces".

Good Luck,
Rye Crane

[Mike Swindell]

Go the way of the neanderthal's and pick up a superb plane from Steve Knight at www.knight-toolworks.com. Great planes and you'll never look back.

[Phil Winn]

will tell you the results when I get both of them...thanks for all of your help.
Phil

[John Miliunas]

PHIL!!!! (YES, I'm screamin' over here!:) ) So, don't leave us hangin'! Which two planes did you order????:confused: Come on, guy...Give it up. Please?:) :cool:

[Dan Forman]

I think this calls for a contest. Who can guess which two planes Phil ordered? I would suggest that to make things more interesting, Phil should turn over to the first person to guess the pair correctly the lesser of the two planes in his estimation. It's the least he can do for causing us all of this stress, leaving us hanging and all.

I'm going to guess that he purchased both from the same catalog in order to save on shipping costs. The second plane would probably be the Mujinfang smoother, as it would give him a taste of wood at a very reasonable cost. That would make the first the new LV heavy smoother, probably the most versatile plane out there with all of the available cutting angles it can handle . Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

On the other hand, he did say that price was secondary, quality primary, so maybe he went for the Anderson infill.

What do the rest of you think???

Dan

[Steven Wilson]

I usually have the following on the bench when attacking highly figured or difficult woods;

1) LN 4 1/2 HA smoothing plane
2) LN 164 LA smoothing plane
3) LN 212B small bronze scraping plane
4) LN 85 cabinet makers scraping plane
5) LN 112 large scraping plane
6) Steve Knight 50 degree smoother
7) card scrapers (LN, Two Cherries, Veritas)
8) Shodo Hiramachi-Oire chisel (thin, flat neck paring chisel)

Depending on what the wood wants to do any of the above can be the ticket. I tend to reach for any of the scrapers (LN 85 and card scrapers) when things get squirly. The LA smoother works nice and was the first good plane I bought - it surprises me how well it works on most things. When the wood wants to cooperate the LN 4 1/2 tends to be the most productive closely followed by the Steve Knight plane but sometimes either of these planes will have problems - it all depends on the wood.

For sharpening (as opposed to grinding a bevel) I use Shapton stones. For the plane irons I usually stop at 5000 grit, sometimes I'll take it up to 8000. For the paring chisel I take it to 15000 grit as that is my ultimate weapon for taking a fine shaving off of anything. As for the Tormek, it's a nice machine and does a good job at accurately puting a bevel on things but it doesn't get things really sharp. It's good enough for most turning tools, some utility bench chisels, and plane irons for rough work but for finish work (or dificult woods) you really need to go much finer than the Tormek. The Shapton stones are just the ticket to get your edge tools really sharp.