Water Based Finishing

[Dave Novak]

This is a large table I'm working on, zebra and wenge. It's supposed to match a couple other pieces I made years ago, and most likely finished with a combo of BLO and Behlen's Rock Hard, rubbed on. Those were "decorative" pieces that won't see near the wear and tear this table will so I've decided to go another route and try my hand at spraying - which requires I switch to a water borne product. I've chosen General Finishes Enduro-Var. Problem is, I need to come fairly close to matching the "warm" color of my BLO/oil based varnish rub on. The Enduro-Var has some color to it, but not enough. I traded a few emails with GF, and they suggested mixing a little dye stain into the varnish to warm it up, so I bought 3 cans of it, Amber, medium brown, and vintage cherry.

Has anyone tried this? I'm certainly no fan of oil based stain/varnish mixes. I suppose if I get the color right on the first coat I'll be able to put subsequent coats on without adding dye stain, but one way or another, I've promised to get this done soon and get SWMBO's car back in the garage ASAP so I can't afford to screw it up. Any thoughts/experience? Thanks.

[John TenEyck]

I've done a fair amount of color matching using toners, both shellac based and with the finish itself. I use Transtint dyes, too. I've also sprayed a fair amount of GF's EnduroVar. If I were doing this, I'd make some sample boards from your scrap, sanded and prepped exactly like your table. Then I'd mix very small batches of EnduroVar, like one ounce, with the various Transtint dyes and brush some on in a small area. Adjust the amount of dye until you get the color you want. Don't worry if it's too dark or too light at first, just get the color right. After the color is right adjust the dye concentration until the hue is lighter than you want. I do it that way so that I can spray at least two coats of the toner. Trying to do it with one coat always leads to heartache for me. When I'm satisfied I spray a test sample all the way through the process and verify it all works before moving on to the real piece.

EnduroVar is great stuff but it's not the easiest thing for me to spray. I find it hard to avoid orange peel. I like GF's Clear Poly better for spraying, and it seems just as durable to me. It's absolutely water clear, but works just as well with dye toners.

John

[Jim Becker]

Yes, I have mixed dye into a water borne finish to give it some "amber" when necessary, although I typically use an oil, shellac and water borne finishing regimen which takes care of the warmth thing for me natively. I find I still prefer that very light coat of BLO as a first step for some reason, probably because of how it interacts with the wood in a way that just isn't the same with coloring the finish on top.

[Dave Novak]

I couldn't agree with you more Jim. My go to finish for years was BLO/rock Hard wiped on because I was good at it and I loved the warm glow it produced. On large surfaces I simply suck at brushing, so I decided I'd spray this as I wanted a little more build/protection than I could achieve wiping. That's what led me to water born finishes. I should be receiving my Fuji spray system today or tomorrow. I'm concerned about applying the dye stain directly to the wood for fear of blotching or unevenness, and I'm concerned that adding the dye to the finish will make it "cloudy". Since you and John have successfully done it this way, I'll give it a hot, after I practice on every scrap I can find.

[John TenEyck]

Transtint in EnduroVar won't look cloudy. It can get opaque like paint if you make the concentration too high or apply too many coats of finish, but I don't see that happening in your application since you only need to tint the finish. I often spray two or three toner coats so that I don't have to worry as much about getting it on absolutely uniformly in just one coat. Then I spray one or two clear finish coats over that.

FWIW, dye sprayed directly onto the wood hasn't blotched for me as long as I don't flood the surface. From my experience dye only blotches when excess dye gets absorbed into the more porous areas. This is what can happen on maple, etc. when you apply it by hand with a sponge, etc. But if you spray it with only enough to wet the wood evenly there's no excess so it can't blotch.

Also note that the look will be somewhat different if you spray the dye directly onto the wood vs. using toners. I suggest you try it both ways on some scrap and see which looks best to you in this application.

John

[scott vroom]

Properly rotated.....

[scott vroom]

I have never worked with transtint dyes so only speculating here. Has anyone here tried pre-conditioning the wood with lightly sponged on water just prior to applying the transtint? I'm wondering if that would minimize the blotching. Kinda related, I was getting blotching when rubbing potasium dichromte on sapele; the vendor suggested pre-conditioning the wood with water.....and it worked. He said the dynamic was similar to the way a pre-dampened sponge will mop up water better than a dry sponge.