Tap and Die sets for wooden screws?

[Michael Ray Smith]

I'm thinking about a project with wooden screws. I found some tap/die sets for wooden threads by Woodcraft in sizes between 1/2" and 1 1/2". Has anyone used them? Any other recommendations?

[Sean Hughto]

They suck in my experience. If you want something that works well, invest int he Beall system.

[David Weaver]

I have used the 1 1/2" tap box and die set from woodcraft to make screws and it worked well.

It never occurred to try the tap box without sharpening the blade on it, so I have no idea how it would've worked without sharpening it. I would suggest that as the very first thing you do if you get the tap box, sharpen the iron a little bit and clean up the edge since you're making a cross grain cut with it, essentially.

I don't doubt sean's experience, they're probably not that consistent. If you go the woodcraft route, they have a good return policy if you get one that just can't be set right.

Mine was set fine in the box, it just probably wouldn't have been that nice to use without sharpening the iron. With it sharp, it made beautiful clean threads that (while they are 60 degree threads and should've been 90) have worked very well in the vise that I use them for.

[Sean Hughto]

It wasn't the cut that was a problem. It was suckage as far as operation of the finished product. The pitch was off by just enough to make for crap operation. It was on my Moxon vise I learned the lesson. The thread box was crap, so I bought eh Beall and made this, which works great.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5069/5608136319_ca9b88c9ac_b.jpg

[David Weaver]

That's too bad. Looks good, though!

[Sean Hughto]

No, no. On this project I started with the hand tap and die from WC. It sucked - bound up and was a major PIA. I then bough the Beall, and had this result - it works GREAT!

[Sean Hughto]

I've also used the Beall to make various sort of fixture and clamps and crap.
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6025/5943450797_e06a34790d_b.jpg

It's so fun, I've thought about making some project using a bunch of wooden "nuts" and "bolts."

[David Weaver]

Oh. Isn't there some adjustability in how deep the cheap thread tap boxes cut? (as in how far the iron is projected out?). It's possible that I projected the iron further than stock when I took it out and put it back in.

I found a copy of the instructions online, and they don't do much to suggest that anyone should sharpen the cutter. that's kind of dumb, it works much better if you sharpen it and set it a little deep.

[george wilson]

The cutter needs to be very sharp. It cuts yards and yards of hard wood as it is screwed around and around on the thread to be cut. If you don't get the cutter placed just right,it can break the threads off down to the root.

I make my threads with a router held in a metal lathe,so there is no chance of screwing up valuable wood. And,I get perfect 90º V threads. We had an all metal German thread box at work,which probably would cost $2000.00 by now. I haven't needed to cut large threads since retiring. The small ones I make,I have to custom make taps to go along with them. An example is the embroidery frame I reproduced for my main customer. I still have the 3/8" tap that had to be made to be a perfect copy of the original threads. No point in not keeping them! It takes a bit of work to make them.

[paul cottingham]

Interesting. I tried a Beall that belongs to friend (that's the one that uses the router, right?) and hated it. Couldn't make decent screw for love or money. Maybe I missed something....

[David Weaver]

The cutter needs to be very sharp. It cuts yards and yards of hard wood as it is screwed around and around on the thread to be cut. If you don't get the cutter placed just right,it can break the threads off down to the root.

I make my threads with a router held in a metal lathe,so there is no chance of screwing up valuable wood. And,I get perfect 90º V threads. We had an all metal German thread box at work,which probably would cost $2000.00 by now. I haven't needed to cut large threads since retiring. The small ones I make,I have to custom make taps to go along with them. An example is the embroidery frame I reproduced for my main customer. I still have the 3/8" tap that had to be made to be a perfect copy of the original threads. No point in not keeping them! It takes a bit of work to make them.

I believe Dictum does still sell the large box, and at least a half dozen years or so ago when I looked it was a little under $1500. I'll bet your guess isn't far off.

[george wilson]

I looked at a Dick catalog back in 2009-left it at work. It was a few years old at least,when I saw a similar price. Wonder how many they sell?

I ought to take a $200.00 chunk of tool steel and make a 3" tap,but the spirit hasn't moved me yet. The only use I'd have for it would be to take orders for large maple bench screws. But,I'm not real inclined to use up my 16/4 maple stock to do that.

The screws seen in Diderot seem larger than 2". They look more like 3" to me.

[Tom M King]

I bought some old Marples threaders on ebay a while back, and they will get the job done if you can sharpen the cutters. I'm sure I would have not paid over 50 bucks for any one of them.

[Paul Saffold]

This young man has 5 or 6 videos on youtube showing in great detail how he makes large screws and nuts with a router. I haven't done it but have enjoyed the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C4p8aT7CDs&list=UU6RUw1NtwJL0P9C86W54keg&spfreload=10

[Michael Ray Smith]

Doesn't the Beall system require a router? As in a router powered by electrons? Don't have one; don't want one. Or do I not understand correctly?

[Sean Hughto]

K, sorry. You did ask for other suggestions.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Garrett Wade also sells one that looks better than the one sold by Woodcraft. (I don't know who actually makes either of them.) Unlike the WC, the taps are fluted and the set includes a bottoming tap. Anyone used that one?

[Michael Ray Smith]

Indeed I did. And thanks for yours.

[Michael Ray Smith]

But am I correct? The Beall requires a router, right?

[Sean Hughto]

Yes. A small trim router is fine. But some router is necessary.

[David Weaver]

Before I'd worry about a bottoming tap, I'd make sure I had a reason to get one. I think I bought a bottoming tap with mine, and I've never used it (it may be that I got the one from garrett wade, but it's the same thing as the AMT.

I forgot to mention the one problem with the import one - the flimsy cheater bar that they give you for the T style tap is too week and you can bend it when you two hand it (which you need to do on a big one).

That and the 6 TPI is a bit too fine for something as large as 1 1/2". Not a huge deal, though, if you're using it on a moxon vise it's not generally going to vary much (in how wide the vise is set).

[Warren Mickley]

I use a bench screw that was made by Daniel O'Hagan in 1977. It is made from dogwood, Cornus florida, about 2.3 inches in diameter with a 4 inch hub all one piece. There are two teeth per inch. The screw box and tap that made it were listed in the woodcraft catalog for about $400 at the time. These tools are still available from Dieter Schmid for 1126 Euros. The screw box has two cutters so it cuts the threads in two stages. The tools are expensive, but the quality of the threads is just superb. Much more cleanly cut than a router set up. They are still slick and intact after years of daily use.

For bench screws I think maybe 2 1/2 is the ideal diameter with 2 inches the smallest I would want. 1 1/2 is skimpy for a bench screw. Also I would avoid the shallow threads that come with too many threads per inch; I would not want more than 3 or 3.5 threads per inch.

I have used some of the smaller screw boxes from this same company and they are similar- they work nicely and are expensive. I also have used the old Conover boxes and once made a box to match a tap I had. I would not recommend making a screw box without another in hand to copy from.

http://www.fine-tools.com/gewind.htm

[David Weaver]

I use a bench screw that was made by Daniel O'Hagan in 1977. It is made from dogwood, Cornus florida, about 2.3 inches in diameter with a 4 inch hub all one piece. There are two teeth per inch. The screw box and tap that made it were listed in the woodcraft catalog for about $400 at the time. These tools are still available from Dieter Schmid for 1126 Euros. The screw box has two cutters so it cuts the threads in two stages. The tools are expensive, but the quality of the threads is just superb. Much more cleanly cut than a router set up. They are still slick and intact after years of daily use.

For bench screws I think maybe 2 1/2 is the ideal diameter with 2 inches the smallest I would want. 1 1/2 is skimpy for a bench screw. Also I would avoid the shallow threads that come with too many threads per inch; I would not want more than 3 or 3.5 threads per inch.

I have used some of the smaller screw boxes from this same company and they are similar- they work nicely and are expensive. I also have used the old Conover boxes and once made a box to match a tap I had. I would not recommend making a screw box without another in hand to copy from.

http://www.fine-tools.com/gewind.htm

(i agree about the 1 1/2 inch, it's too small for a main vise and WAY too many TPI at 6. It's a better size for small stuff like a moxon vise)

[Michael Ray Smith]

Here's another "they suck" vote from Chris Schwartz a couple of years ago. And he didn't have any ideas for alternatives that 'Creekers haven't already suggested here here. http://www.pularwoodworking.com/techniques/hand-tools-techniques/a-rare-rant-about-threadboxes (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/hand-tools-techniques/a-rare-rant-about-threadboxes)

[Michael Ray Smith]

Yeah, I can't really think of what I'd use a bottoming tap for, either. Just seems like I ought to have one. :)

[David Weaver]

Here's another "they suck" vote from Chris Schwartz a couple of years ago. And he didn't have any ideas for alternatives that 'Creekers haven't already suggested here here. http://www.pularwoodworking.com/techniques/hand-tools-techniques/a-rare-rant-about-threadboxes (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/hand-tools-techniques/a-rare-rant-about-threadboxes)

rehardening the bit wouldn't have been very hard to do if it was suspected of being soft. It's tiny. I'm not surprised.

[Pat Barry]

This young man has 5 or 6 videos on youtube showing in great detail how he makes large screws and nuts with a router. I haven't done it but have enjoyed the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C4p8aT7CDs&list=UU6RUw1NtwJL0P9C86W54keg&spfreload=10
He reminds me of a young George Wilson.

[Ryan Baker]

The kits from all the main WWing suppliers are pretty much the same. Some include the bottoming tap while others sell it separately, and the prices vary a little. It is widely known that there were batches of these kits that didn't match in pitch, in which case they are useless. I have some that do match, and they work just fine and make very operable threads. If you get one of these kits, you should make some test cuts to check that the pitch is right while you still have time to return it if it is bad. Sharpening the cutters is definitely a good idea. Getting them adjusted to the proper depth makes a big difference too.

The Beall taps are nice, and work well. I'm not a big fan of the router-based "thread box". That might make sense for a large screw, but in the sizes the Beall system provides, I would rather buy or make a good thread box.

For big screws, like a bench screw, I agree that you want something about 2.5-3 inches with about 3-4 threads per inch (and a better thread profile). At that point, you are pretty much building the whole setup anyway, so you can make it any way you prefer.