Track Saws, silly question I think

[Scott Brandstetter]

I have been looking at track saws and other methods of cutting larger sheets. I have always used my table saw but as I get older the thought of wrestling larger items is not appealing. The silly question is this....how do you use the track saw. I don't mean how does it work, rather, do you lay the plywood on the ground, across a large table? I'm trying to envision me bringing a sheet good to the shop and then making it easier than using my TS.

[Jim Becker]

One popular way to break down sheets safely at "floor level" is to buy some foam insulation board to put under the sheet goods. Set the track saw to cut just slightly thicker than the material you're working with. The foam will protect the blade from coming near the floor and you can literally kneel on it to get into a "comfortable" position. You could also use 2x stock to raise up the sheets...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I built a interlocking grid of 2x4's that interlock using half lap joints. The 2x4s stand on edge while interlocked. I assemble the grid on the floor, lay the plywood on top of it and rough cut it to size. I finish cut the plywood on my tablesaw.

[Eric DeSilva]

I cut up a lot of sheet goods before they get past my garage (shop is in basement). I found a bunch of plastic buckets years ago that I can put under the sheets of plywood and cut--the buckets also stack, which is nice. Since they were dirt cheap, I don't even worry about missing and cutting them up. I know some people cut on rigid foam too. The buckets work better for me since I can get under the sheet to clamp my guide rails down.

[Chris Padilla]

I have a nice 2" thick piece of rigid foam that I use: Toss 'er on the driveway, toss the ply on it, toss the guide on it, toss the saw on the guide, cut away. :) Amazingly, as cut up as the foam sheet is, it still has a fair amount of integrity left so it keeps on going. It rained the whole weekend here and I needed to still cut down some sheet goods so I tossed the foam on my workbench and cut inside. The styrofoam kinda gets everywhere and sticks to everything, too, so that is kind of annoying but it didn't drive me to the point of whipping up some 2x4s to cut upon instead. :) To Eric's point about clamping guides and I can only speak to Festool's guide (and track saws), but they don't need clamped to stay in place while cutting.

[Peter Quinn]

I've been running this through my head for a few months in odd moments, bought a track saw for the home shop, single rail so far, has proven very useful for cabinet mods on installs and some angled cuts, but main idea was to break down sheet goods. I have a jessem mast-r-slide NIB ready to go on cabinet saw, I have a very large panel sled built from a FWW article, never finalized it. Shop is in basement. Any scenario that involves me spending more time on my knees is a bad one. I've considered getting an MFT with the cross cut set up, man are those things pricey, trying to save some money for retirement.....So how to do it. I spent the weekend breaking down full sheets on the cabinet saw....it's just mental pushing an 8' long 24" rip sidewise through the saw to cross cut, we call it the "cowboy cut" because they can occasionally buck a bit! The rip is easy enough if the factory edge is good....and that's a big if. I've gotten very used to slapping sheets on the big altendorf at work, making a square crisp corner and going from there. I'm looking to develop that kind of work flow in the home shop, haven't got it straight yet.

I'm picturing a folding table with half lap grid, maybe poplar 1X3' something cheap and easy to replace, light enough to store...sheets go into full sized van at lumber yard via fork lift.....come out of van onto cutting table, sliced to make parts, Peter never lifts a full sheet again, just slide and slice. I keep looking for a video of a good total process, because I'm busy,and lazy, and a natural procrastinator. I just haven't found that simple solution for complete parts break down yet that won't cost me $1k.

[Ryan Mooney]

I built a interlocking grid of 2x4's that interlocking using half lap joints. The 2x4s stand on edge while interlocked. I assemble the grid on the floor, lay the plywood on top of it and rough cut it to size. I finish cut the plywood on my tablesaw.

Same except I put the grid on top of a pair of sawhorses. My grid is actually half lapped 2x3s that I pin with dowels though holes drilled diagonally through the junctions. That way I can back the pickup right up to it, slide a sheet out at waist height onto the grid then cut to size. Repeat as needed. Minimizes moving whole sheets of plywood which is nice and my back doesn't like bending over to cut on the ground all that much anymore.

The grid when raied up is easy to clamp around and to as well. If the blade scores the 2x3s a little its no real problem.

[Eric DeSilva]

To Eric's point about clamping guides and I can only speak to Festool's guide (and track saws), but they don't need clamped to stay in place while cutting.

You say that... Festool says that... I still can't bring myself to actually believe it. Every time I come close to trying it, I just say "eh, the Festool quick clamps only take 30 seconds to attach..."

[Joe Spear]

...toss the saw on the guide


I'm sorry. At the price I paid for it, I just can't bring myself to toss my Festool saw anywhere.

[Charles Wiggins]

One popular way to break down sheets safely at "floor level" is to buy some foam insulation board to put under the sheet goods. Set the track saw to cut just slightly thicker than the material you're working with. The foam will protect the blade from coming near the floor and you can literally kneel on it to get into a "comfortable" position.

+1. This is precisely what I do.

It helps with preventing tear-out on the underside as well. You can get a lot of cuts out of one piece of foam insulation.

If your floor is concrete or other material that is impossible to keep clean I would suggest choosing top and bottom sides and always put the foam down that way to avoid getting debris embedded in your material. It can ruin a nice piece of ply and dull your blade if you hit it.

[Chris Padilla]

You say that... Festool says that... I still can't bring myself to actually believe it. Every time I come close to trying it, I just say "eh, the Festool quick clamps only take 30 seconds to attach..."

Hard to use a clamp when you're 4x8 plywood is sitting on a piece of 4x8 foam board which is sitting on a concrete driveway (usually). :D

[James Zhu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5YzIwK-g0E

Multifunction workbench, jump to 3:00 which shows the extension table supporting 4x8 sheets. The plan is available on his website, http://www.benchworks.be/tipstricks.html.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I use the foam insulation on the floor method.

I only use clamps occasionally with the guide but not when I'm breaking down the ply. Occasionally, my OCD kicks in and I will clamp down the guide for good measure.

[Chris Padilla]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5YzIwK-g0E

Multifunction workbench, jump to 3:00 which shows the extension table supporting 4x8 sheets. The plan is available on his website, http://www.benchworks.be/tipstricks.html.

Eric,

See from 3:50 on...no clamps for the track!!! :D :D

James,

Thanks for that link...pretty sweet set-up he has there. I have two MFT1080s myself...rare that they aren't both opened up.

[scott vroom]

For me the hardest part is getting the sheet goods from the truck into the shop. Once in the shop it's relatively easy to lift the front edge of the sheet onto the saw table, and then lift the rear edge onto roller stands. When I get to the point that I can no longer carry the sheet goods to the shop I'll pay my supplier to break it down for me.

[Peter Quinn]

For me the hardest part is getting the sheet goods from the truck into the shop. Once in the shop it's relatively easy to lift the front edge of the sheet onto the saw table, and then lift the rear edge onto roller stands. When I get to the point that I can no longer carry the sheet goods to the shop I'll pay my supplier to break it down for me.


My issue is not that I can no longer carry plywood...but that I no longer want to. And possibly more importantly, the factory no longer wants to take the time to make the factory edge straight and even vaguely square in some cases, and that is hard to overcome with a TS on parts of a certain size...like say you have a peninsula cabinet that sits next to full depth fridge, bar top height say, with a decent scribe on a finished end, so you have case sides working on 34-35" width, 42" length. How to process that in a small shop sans slider? I can push that tweaked columbia plywood over my saw all day, doesn't make it square. I've tried ripping, then re ripping, then re reripping, and the two sides start to head towards parallel, but the ends are often wonkier than at the start. Maybe the solution is as easy as making a cross cut jig for the track saw, buy an 55" rail, dedicate it to jig that can be dropped on a sheet, has a forced right angle like a giant framing square, hangs on a wall, stack the sheets on a table in from of the TS just slightly lower than it.....rip off the factory with a long fence and track saw, split the sheets over the length to make desired widths, square one end with track saw jig, right at out feed of TS, cut the length a bit over, final dimension on TS off of fence.....parts on cart ready to go.

Maybe I'm just getting lazy? Maybe its the CNC machine at work, spits out perfectly square parts with cut out, dados, etc....who really wants to lift plywood anymore? Does anybody make a 5X10 CNC that fits in a basement?:rolleyes:

[Bryan Lisowski]

I put 2" foam boards on top of saw horses and make my cuts.

[Rich Engelhardt]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180033-Sheet-goods-Panel-cutting-table

This question/topic comes up pretty frequently.

I made the table I linked to in the above thread probably 5 or 6 years ago and have been happily using it ever since.
My knees and big fat gut make crawling around on the ground using a piece of foam impossible to even consider.

Usually what I do is pick up the plywood w/the van and transport it home.
I set up the table in the driveway and use a couple of those cheap folding leg outfeed support stands to slide the plywood out of the back of the van, then right onto the table so I can cut it down to size.

[Paul Cofrancesco]

I built a interlocking grid of 2x4's ...finish cut the plywood on my tablesaw.
Good idea. I use 2x's myself but hadn't though of using the TS for the final cut.

[Brian W Smith]

Vertical panel saw here.Takes up zero floor space because we configured ours to utilize an existing storage unit as the framework.Removable panels protect contents on shelves from dust.Top/bttm rails,beam transverses R/L......about the only thing missing is the little pop-up wheels on lower clip rail.They are found on the nicer units,hit a lever and the wheels rise up to allow sheet to move,then drop the wheels with a "click" of lever and you're ready to cut.It's hugely quicker to set for square than anything we've ever used"......Then it's usually off to the table saw for second/third ops.I know we'll never be without one,they are that useful.Good luck.

[Kevin Wolfe]

So have the dewalt track saw and love it. I sold my table saw and went with this and a band saw. I use the foam on the floor method, but that's really because I have not had time to make an elevated platform. I hear you about the mft. I bought one and returned it within 3 days. I just couldn't justify the money once I had it in hand.

The best part about the mft is the precise hole spacing for making accurate 90 cuts. So, I bought a replace,net top for $130 and some precision dogs for another $70. I'll build my own bench with the top that I can customize.

[Jim Matthews]

One popular way to break down sheets safely at "floor level" is to buy some foam insulation board to put under the sheet goods. Set the track saw to cut just slightly thicker than the material you're working with. The foam will protect the blade from coming near the floor and you can literally kneel on it to get into a "comfortable" position. You could also use 2x stock to raise up the sheets...

+1 this is how I handle full sheets.

Half size sheets span a pair of knee high saw horses with a particle board door
and styrofoam sheet under the plywood to be cut.

Have browse of the Eurekazone pages for an inelegant but effective alternative.
(Did I mention expensive? That, too.)

[Jim Matthews]

I'm a hobbyist, and my methods may not be suitable for a production shop.

I keep plywood in the garage, vertically stacked in the "dead space" between the main wall to the house
and the overhead garage door track. That way, tall sheets can't fall into the car port.

I break down sheets as mentioned above, on the ground over a styrofoam backer.
That's becoming difficult, and hard on my knee.

I'm considering a low assembly table, designed for this purpose.
If you're bringing in sheets off a pickup bed, the sawhorse height could be
raised to allow you to slide sheets straight out, and into position.

The video attached shows a variant that follows the principle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5PDmNqdg_o

[Ole Anderson]

I had 8 sheets of 3/4" Hickory ply to break down for my kitchen cabinet project last year as well as several sheets of 1/2" prefinished for the drawer bottoms. I purchased a Grizzly track saw specifically for that purpose. I laid one sheet on top of a set of sawhorses, a sheet of 1" foam on that and then went to town. All measurements were done off the long edge, although I found the sheets to be dead on square. For the last sheet, I laid the foam on the floor. I made my own 24" x 24" super square "tee square" using a piece of prefinished ply with a cleat along one side, and did the five cut method to verify it was square. With that I marked the perpendicular cuts. As noted, with foam on the floor you can't clamp the rails. To trust that the rails won't move without clamping them, you need to brush any sawdust off both the rail rubber pads and the plywood they are laying on.

All that being said, I still over sized the pieces so I could run them through my table saw on one setting, ripping to final width just to make sure all the cabinet tops and sides were exactly the same depth.

[glenn bradley]

Another floor level guy on 2' x 4' pieces of foam insulation board (and/or scraps left over from insulating). I've been swing on the same foam board for years and haven't worn one out yet. The foam is light and easily stores almost anywhere when not in use. I did go the shop made route but, I probably spent money on something else that another person would save by making a shop made item of another kind. I do finish my panels on the tablesaw so something as sophisticated as the commercial track saws isn't required. the spoli in minimal and I already have the tablesaw :)

301359301357301358

[Adam Shapiro]

I've got a basement shop, so I need to break the panels down before they come inside. I never liked using power tools on my knees, so I throw a put core door over a pair of folding sawhorses. I tried the 2x4 grid approach, but it was heavier to drag out of the basement then the door and I get less tear out from the "zero clearance" of the backside resting on the door then I had with the 2x4's.

In the basement, I just use a foam panel over my workbench. Same benefits and even less weight.

[John Huds0n]

I really like my Stanley saw horses. They are height adjustable and they have two notches to hold a 2x4 firmly on edge

Simple interlocking 2x4 cutting table. Doesn't take up a whole lot of room and is easy to assemble and break down
301361

[Erik Christensen]

I have a breakdown table that is topped by 1" foam. It is ~ pickup bed high. set it up in garage entrance - back truck up and pull sheets one at a time to table. i use cutlist-plus for all my parts management and can specify a rough dimension allowance - usually 1-2" - so i breakdown sheets to rough size with the tracksaw (never use clamps). edge band and trim edge straight with track saw. cut one adjacent side @ 90 on MFT and then to final dimension on table saw.

I am over 60 and can build a set of cabinet cases solo - though one assembled it usually takes a helper to move them around.

[mreza Salav]

I've cut hundreds of sheet of ply and others in the past year or so for the "new house" project I'm doing (there were over 60 sheets alone for the cabnets).
I've put a 1" (or 1.5"?) foam on one of my benches (which itself is a 4x8 sheet on 2x4 frames) and done all the cutting on it. It is still useable. Almost always I use the clamps as well.
I've done multiple cuts without clamping and it works Ok if the cut it small but with larger cuts I've noticed there is tendecy/danger of the guide moving, especially when cutting things like prefinished ply (for cabinets).

[Harvey Miller]

I’m too old and lazy to crawl on the floor, so I made this one-
301362
301363


It’s based on a Michael Standish Blog post on the Fine woodworking site. I modified it (from a single piece frame) into two 3 by 3 1/2 foot boxes. There’s no metal in it, except the nuts & bolts to hold the two boxes together, the rest are Miller dowels (no relation). It’s light weight, but it’s not as compact as I’d like and you can see, I need the space. If I had to do it again, I’d probably try the grid style. I use foam as well.

[Paul Cofrancesco]

like my Stanley saw horses. They are height adjustable and they have two notches to hold a 2x4 firmly on edge
Simple interlocking 2x4 cutting table. Doesn't take up a whole lot of room and is easy to assemble and break down


Cool. Simple intuitive "I think I can do that" elegant solution. I bought those same saw horses years ago but haven't used them as much as I would like. Your idea shows me it's time to get them out. So nice to get out of the business of working off the ground. My main saw horses are the type you make out of 2x4's where you just buy the metal hinge holders. While they are heavy and lack adjustable legs - the have the advantage of being weather and theft resistant because I painted them with latex and they have no resale value. I leave them outside in my work area so they are ready to go at a moments notice. When I used them to paint I don't worry about trashing things or if I do I can hit them with a coat of latex. I also made a 2x4 bracket and the top pieces keep wood from slipping off. I never use them for cutting 4x8 sheets as I typically do that on the ground :mad: or on the TS :).

An advantage is the width can be customized or the top bar replaced with a 2x6 and the height could be customized (very short, tall, multiple sets, mix and match, etc) also you can screw into almost any part and easily add what ever might be needed.

301383

[Jim Becker]

I know of one fellow who put the foam board on his dining room table and cut up sheet goods right there with his Festool rig. :D And he didn't have to sleep in the garage afterward since there was no tell-tale mess when he was done. LOL

Seriously, there are some great material support ideas in this thread!

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I really like my Stanley saw horses. They are height adjustable and they have two notches to hold a 2x4 firmly on edge

Simple interlocking 2x4 cutting table. Doesn't take up a whole lot of room and is easy to assemble and break down
301361

John, your setup is the same as mine! I vote for this! :D

[Terry Therneau]

I use a simple table of 2x4s with banquet table legs. The 2x4s are on edge, and I made sure to put the construction screws in the lower 1/2. The table is 3.5 ft wide and 7 ft long, and fits in my vertical plywood storage rack easily. I can set it up and take it down in a few moments.

[Tom Clark FL]

Also too old and stiff to work on the floor, especially when I want to lay out a new project on a sheet before breaking it down to go to the table saw/ I can still drag a sheet of plywood out of the wood rack, and then lift one corner up onto my cutting table. By setting the blade to go through the wood less than 1/4", I just cut into the horse. By the way, made a cutting table like this 30 years ago, and used it for 27 years. This one is fairly new after a cross country move. Can't stand trying to get a full sheet up onto two saw horses. They kept falling over. Just not worth the aggravation…

My 8' version of my cutting guide is still in use after 30 years. This 4' version is used a lot more, but still works great. Guess it is a $4 version of a track saw.

[Curt Harms]

Hard to use a clamp when you're 4x8 plywood is sitting on a piece of 4x8 foam board which is sitting on a concrete driveway (usually). :D

Cut the foam a couple inches shorter than 8'. It'll still work just fine and there's room to get a clamp on each end of the rail.

[Scott Vigder]

I've had the EurekaZone EZSmart system for several years, and I love it's simplicity and performance. No need to repeat the cut on the table saw as it comes out perfectly every time. And it works on either a dedicated cutting table or the foam-on-the-ground method! Dino helped me several times during my newbie phase and I am delighted to have been able to help support his ideas.

[Scott Brandstetter]

Thanks for all of the replies. I have certainly a lot to think about. I am definitely not a guy to get on my hands and knees to cut. Thanks again for the information.

[Paul Cofrancesco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5YzIwK-g0E

Multifunction workbench, jump to 3 minutes ... 4x8 sheets. The plan is available on his website, http://www.benchworks.be/tipstricks.html.

Wild seeing the Festool track saw system. Easy to take in / out of the track and it looked like auto depth adjustment, amazing dust collection. Doesn't fully replace the table saw because the TS excels at long rips and cutting very small pieces.

[Rick Moyer]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180033-Sheet-goods-Panel-cutting-table

This question/topic comes up pretty frequently.

I made the table I linked to in the above thread probably 5 or 6 years ago and have been happily using it ever since.
My knees and big fat gut make crawling around on the ground using a piece of foam impossible to even consider.

Usually what I do is pick up the plywood w/the van and transport it home.
I set up the table in the driveway and use a couple of those cheap folding leg outfeed support stands to slide the plywood out of the back of the van, then right onto the table so I can cut it down to size.

100% agreement. Especially the knees and gut part :o

[joseph f merz]

i put a hollow core door on saw horses . lately i have been putting pieces of shag carpet on top of the table/dr whatever . drop the blade enough to clear what i am cutting and it passes through the carpet .the carpet is also used to sand on ,keeps the boards from moving,will scratch and faster then using clamps . But I will cut directly on the dr .the top gets small grooves all over it but will last a long time .

[Mike Holbrook]

I used the EurekaZone saw for a few years then switched to a Festool saw when I had to cut all the plywood to cover the floors & walls of a building I built. I have cut many sheets with a Festool saw and guide and never use clamps.

I wrestled with the sheet goods saw surface problem for some time and came up with a kinda odd solution that works a little better than saw horses for me. I bought 3/4" threaded water pipe ( they will cut it and thread it cheap at home stores). I used T pipe couplers to make H pattern legs for each end. I used round pipe flanges/discs for feet and for attaching the legs to the table. I reinforced plywood with clear yellow pine trim boards around all the edges, bottom & corners to make a top. I throw a foam sheet over the plywood top to saw on. Certainly not the steadiest leg system, but it has worked well for construction work and rough cabinets for many years. I can brake the legs down into easy to move/store pieces in just a few minuets.

I am now making plans for a top to go on a Noden Adjust A Bench base that will be a workbench/table, outfeed and surface to cut sheet goods on. I am making a frame with plywood, MDF and 1x3 clear southern yellow pine. I plan to mount a quick release vice on the front side or end. I am planing to use 1/2" MDF in the top of the frame so I can flip or replace it if /when needed.

[Brian W Evans]

I also have the Stanley sawhorses that hold the 2x4s. I highly recommend them but you really need to add cross pieces as others have said/shown. I use a Makita track saw with DeWalt clamps and it works great. I recently built some cabinets using only the track saw (I have both the 55" and 118" rails) and I didn't recut anything on the table saw.

On a separate but related note, I'd like to recommend the Cutlist (http://cutlistplus.com/) software (no affiliation). I don't use a lot of plywood and, given the cost of cabinet-grade stuff, I wanted to make sure I laid out the parts efficiently and didn't make any mistakes. The parts diagrams and cutlists generated by the software made the process almost foolproof. Basic version is $89 and pays for itself if it saves you from buying even 1 extra sheet of plywood.

[jared sankovic]

Ive found its easiest to handle the sheets only once and just cut them before I unload.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/rps20141215_110203_864_zps4si0znok.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/rps20141215_105740_944_zpsfcmdikjh.jpg

[Keith Hankins]

I have been looking at track saws and other methods of cutting larger sheets. I have always used my table saw but as I get older the thought of wrestling larger items is not appealing. The silly question is this....how do you use the track saw. I don't mean how does it work, rather, do you lay the plywood on the ground, across a large table? I'm trying to envision me bringing a sheet good to the shop and then making it easier than using my TS.

I see the response count it high so you've probably had tons of good responses. I'll give you mine, since like you i'm getting older and don't like horsing around sheets of ply. Add to that my 2nd son is now grown and in college and the older boy is in the military. So it's just me now.

I love my festool TS55. I use a gorilla gripper to move the sheets and it works great highly recommend it. I must say seem's like ply is getting heavier (i know i'm just getting older but i like the other thought better)

I went to lowes and bought a 4x8 sheer of 2" solid insulation and when not in use it's leaning against the wall. When I need it, I just lay it on the floor, and put the ply on top. Set depth to cut through the ply into the insulation. Works great, and I'm still on the original pieces of insulation. Get the dense kind not the styrofoam with foil back. You can stand on it and it won't give.

I cut it down to close then final cut on the TS, but you can do a final cut with the TS55, done it before..

Good luck.