I broke the Veritas small plow plane

[Fidel Fernandez]

I was using the plow plane and the depth stop slip very often. I tight the know hard several times. I am working on a few drawers and cutting the groves for the bottom.

In one of those readjustments with the depth stop, I felt the know was so loose, then suddenly it felt to the floor.

I don't see how can I remove the screw that remind inserted.

I have a small plow without a depth stop, want to buy it :rolleyes:.

Seriously, what can I do? Do you know if Lee Valley sells only the body?

[Frank Martin]

I don't know if Lee Valley sell just the body but I am sure they will find a way to help you. Give them a call, they are second to none when it comes to customer service.

[David Dalzell]

I have the small plow plane also. I rubbed the depth stop post (bar) with rough sandpaper. This stopped the depth adjustment from slipping.

[Steve Voigt]

You just need a screw extractor and a way to accurately drill a small hole through what's left of the screw. If you haven't done this before, you might want to take it to a machine shop. A small local shop wouldn't charge much; around here it would probably be 10$-20$. Then you'll need a new knob; I'm sure LV will send you one.
Or you could just send it back to LV and they can extract the screw for you. Either way, it's not a huge deal.
When you get it fixed, do what David D. said and rough up the shaft. And don't twist the knob so hard. :p

[Jim Matthews]

Just call (or send an email) to the Lee Valley people.

They can probably sort this out for you.
There was a depth stop retrofit for larger router planes.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have one for your size, too.

It can't hurt to ask...

http://www.leevalley.com/US/home/contact.aspx

[Mike Brady]

The depth adjuster on that plane is inadequate. I have purchased two of them about a year and a half apart and they both had the same weakness where the piece that applies tension from tightening the thumb screw bears on the post. I have heard all the comments before about how you aren't supposed to bear down on the tool, but folks you are pressing laterally and thrusting forward, so if it is going to have a depth stop then it needs to withstand the forces of its use. There have been numerous mentions of this here since the plane was introduced over two years ago. Certainly Fidel should not have to resort to having a machine shop work on it. Please post here what Lee Valley recommends. Fortunately, I'm still within the 90 day warranty period on my newer one.

[Jim Koepke]

As mentioned above, give Lee Valley a call before doing anything else.


I was using the plow plane and the depth stop slip very often.

Even Chris Schwarz recently wrote about depth adjustment and fence screws coming loose on rabbet and plow planes. He suggested using pliers to tighten them. A small pair of pliers has been used very lightly on the fence screws of my Record #778 when a long run is under way. The depth gauge screw is also checked regularly.

On my Stanley planes used for such work it is pretty much down to a routine of making a few passes and checking the fence screws and skate screws.

It is a real bummer when one comes loose unnoticed and messes up a job.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

The one problem I have experienced with the LV planes is the loosening of of the depth stop. Now I have a permanent and easy fix! :)

Put away the vise grips. They will destroy the nice knurling. The beautiful LV brass knobs do not warrant such treatment.

Sanding the steel rods does not work.

Solution: Using a hacksaw or a Dremel with a small cut-off blade, grind a slot for a decent-sized screwdriver blade ... something similar to a Stanley chipbreaker screw slot. Now you can use a screwdriver to tighten and loosen the knob. This works perfectly. I have not experienced a single failure (loosening of the knob/depth stop) since this modification. I have mentioned it to Lee Valley.

All the LV knobs have received this treatment ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Slots1_zpsaa8fa799.jpg

Small Plow:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Slots2_zps02d411ec.jpg

Skew Rabbet:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Slots3_zps509a5113.jpg

Router Plane Fence:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Slots4_zps89e2c826.jpg

Hope this helps you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

I was using the plow plane and the depth stop slip very often. I tight the know hard several times. I am working on a few drawers and cutting the groves for the bottom.

In one of those readjustments with the depth stop, I felt the know was so loose, then suddenly it felt to the floor.

I don't see how can I remove the screw that remind inserted.

I have a small plow without a depth stop, want to buy it :rolleyes:.

Seriously, what can I do? Do you know if Lee Valley sells only the body?

Hi Fidel

Contact Lee Valley. I am sure that they will offer to help out.

If you want to do this yourself, then you will need to drill out the remaining section of the screw. There are drills for this called "easy-outs". You will still need to get a replacement screw from LV.

I assume that you used something to tighten the screw to such an extent that it weakened the brass, and cracked ...?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Harold Burrell]

The one problem I have experienced with the LV planes is the loosening of of the depth stop. Now I have a permanent and easy fix! :)

Put away the vise grips. They will destroy the nice knurling. The beautiful LV brass knobs do not warrant such treatment.

Sanding the steel rods does not work.

Solution: Using a hacksaw or a Dremel with a small cut-off blade, grind a slot for a decent-sized screwdriver blade ... something similar to a Stanley chipbreaker screw slot. Now you can use a screwdriver to tighten and loosen the knob. This works perfectly. I have not experienced a single failure (loosening of the knob/depth stop) since this modification. I have mentioned it to Lee Valley.

All the LV knobs have received this treatment ...

Hope this helps you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ok, Derek...that's it. You are just WAY too clever. I seriously need to hang out with you for a couple of months (or so).

I've decided to fly out there and live with you. Don't worry. I won't get in your way. You will find that I will even be of help. Taking out the trash...mowing the yard...I'll even help out eating your groceries.

Yeah. This is the perfect time of year for me, you know...with winter coming on and all. I mean, you guys are getting ready to begin summer! NICE...we just might make this an annual thing! :D

And...if you insist...I will even let you pay for my plane fare.

Oh, man...this is going to be great!

G'day mate,
Harold

[Fidel Fernandez]

I contacted Lee Valley.

They will send another screw to replace the broken one. I was told there are methods to remove the screw with "easy outs" or screw extractor and there are some other methods not using them.
The customer service guy mention to drill out the screw and that will remove the threads that remind on the body.
I am afraid to damage the body, so probably I won't do it.

I will learn how to use it without the depth stop. I am lucky that I just bought a Stanley 45. My intention was to use it for moldings. I guess I will have to use it for the groves if I cannot make the LV to work without the depth stop.

[Mike Brady]

I contacted Lee Valley.

They will send another screw to replace the broken one. I was told there are methods to remove the screw with "easy outs" or screw extractor and there are some other methods not using them.
The customer service guy mention to drill out the screw and that will remove the threads that remind on the body.
I am afraid to damage the body, so probably I won't do it.

I will learn how to use it without the depth stop. I am lucky that I just bought a Stanley 45. My intention was to use it for moldings. I guess I will have to use it for the groves if I cannot make the LV to work without the depth stop.

Really? Hmmmm.....

[Mel Miller]

Derek's idea of slotting the screw heads is very good. You could go one step farther and replace the brass screw with a (harder) steel one.
Drilling and extracting/retapping the broken screw will work, but if you've never done it before you're not likely to have good results.
Trying to find a machine shop to take this job on for $10.-$20. would be pretty much impossible in my opinion. If you have a friend with a home shop, you might find help there.

[Fidel Fernandez]

I call them again and told them, that I was not comfortable drilling out the screw.

This new Guy Conrad told me to send it back to them. They will remove the screw.

Fidel

[Jim Koepke]

Put away the vise grips. They will destroy the nice knurling. The beautiful LV brass knobs do not warrant such treatment.

I agree, the nice brass hardware doesn't deserve to be mistreated.

Hmmm, maybe a pair of wooden pliers...


Solution: Using a hacksaw or a Dremel with a small cut-off blade, grind a slot for a decent-sized screwdriver blade ... something similar to a Stanley chipbreaker screw slot. Now you can use a screwdriver to tighten and loosen the knob. This works perfectly. I have not experienced a single failure (loosening of the knob/depth stop) since this modification. I have mentioned it to Lee Valley.

This is an example of history repeating itself. The very first Stanley #45 & #50 planes (and possibly others) had brass holding screws with only knurling to tighten them. Shortly after the first wave Stanley put slots on these screws. My early #50 does not have slots in the screws. Some early screws resting in my accumulation have owner installed slots.

Stanley later changed the screw design to an easier to tighten by hand winged screw. Though the vibration of the plane in use still can shake those loose. Hence my routine of regular checking during use.

jtk

[John Sanford]

Regarding the general problem, maybe some blue loctite??

[Moses Yoder]

I dont see the average woodworker being able to make a nice slot like that for a screwdriver. I do not even own a rotary tool, and I can just picture my attempts with a hack saw. I have had several planes, a Stanley 45 and a 46 where the bolster for the screw was broken off probably because of putting too much force on the screw to lock the deppth. I think the post for the depth stop should be knurled. That would be the perfect solution.

[Jim Koepke]

My comment about using a small pair of pliers brought Derek's reasoned response:


The one problem I have experienced with the LV planes is the loosening of of the depth stop. Now I have a permanent and easy fix!

Put away the vise grips. They will destroy the nice knurling. The beautiful LV brass knobs do not warrant such treatment.

Sanding the steel rods does not work.

Solution: Using a hacksaw or a Dremel with a small cut-off blade, grind a slot for a decent-sized screwdriver blade ... something similar to a Stanley chipbreaker screw slot.

He illustrates a common interpretation found in many a man's thought process... The idea of a small pair of pliers can quickly get tempered with the belief of 'bigger is better' and pretty soon people are twisting off the heads of screws everywhere.

My small pliers are a 6" pair of slip jaw pliers. They are used to tighten just a touch more than simple finger pressure can attain.

The idea of screw driver slots is commendable. Among other things it shows a little more torque than most of us can provide with fingers is needed and provides the solution.


Regarding the general problem, maybe some blue loctite??

Though this might work, there may be many problems.

Is there a drying time required?

Another would be if one is changing the depth stop they would then have to apply another coat.

How much dried Loctite build up would there to clean up be after a few changes.

Finally, there are some Loctites that do not want to release when used between dissimilar metals. That could be the ruin of a nice tool. If people will not acquire the correct pliers for the job how can we expect them to not use the wrong Loctite. There are over 20 different Loctite fromulatins.


I dont see the average woodworker being able to make a nice slot like that for a screwdriver. I do not even own a rotary tool, and I can just picture my attempts with a hack saw.

It is actually very easy to make a nice slot. One can make a saw guide with a piece of wood. Saw a light kerf, sized close to one's hacksaw blade, in a piece of wood, center an auger bit, sized to fit the screw head, on the saw kerf. Bore this deep enough so the head of the screw will be below the wood. Then drill a center hole through for the screw shaft. Now deepen the kerf. The kerf may need to go completely through the wood on one side of the head to enable some holding action when set in a vise.

Use the kerf to guide a hack saw to make a kerf on the screw head.

At least that would be my plan for making a nice looking screw slot.

jtk

[Mel Miller]

I have a set of Starrett hack saw blades of graduated thickness made for cutting screwdriver slots.
A better way is to use a slitting saw on a milling machine, but not everybody has that option available.

I really dislike plier marks on screw heads.

[Jim Belair]

This slot-in-the-head is a simple fix and one Veritas should implement at the source.

[Jim Koepke]

This slot-in-the-head is a simple fix and one Veritas should implement at the source.

Hopefully that will happen.

Not sure what the cost to them would be by doing this.

Will previous Small Plow Plane buyers be expecting the "new and improved" screw for free?

Just an exchange of 'reconditioned' screws could cost a bundle in postage.

jtk

[Ryan Baker]

LV has a lot of these planes out in the world. Replacing the screws on all of them would be a huge cost. I know LV has done things like that in the past though. Maybe they would at least offer them for purchase for retrofitting.

[Derek Cohen]

This slot-in-the-head is a simple fix and one Veritas should implement at the source.

A slot is really a simple modification using a hacksaw. We are handtool users. A hacksaw is a handtool. Just do it.

I do not see that LV need to go about replacing all the old knobs. Perhaps they could include it in a future production. The irony is that the need arises from the current construction being too perfect - the rods are simply too smooth. Sanding them coarser does work as well, but not as well as a tighter connection (hence some using pliers). Use both. The extra grip needed is not really that much - which is why the original set up worked at the start, and probably continues to work for some who have a little more strength than most. It just a bit more than from the knurled knob alone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Belair]

A slot is really a simple modification using a hacksaw. We are handtool users. A hacksaw is a handtool. Just do it.



I wasn't suggesting retrofit of ones already out there. But if a shortfall has been identified in the design I think it should be corrected, "too perfect" or not.