Gouge how-to for non-carvers?

[Daniel Rode]

I'm trying to learn a bit about gouges and similar shaped chisel-like tools. I'm not particularly interested in carving per se. It's more about wanting to shape basic curves on furniture.

I have a vague understanding of gouges. Standard vs incannel, size, sweep but that's about it. I've tried to look for some information on what gouges I might need and how to use them. Mostly though, I find stuff about carving or turning.

Any pointers?

[David Weaver]

Do you want to carve curves on furniture or something like shells or roses?

I'd start with a few elements and find a good tutorial on them and then just make a spate of them. Once you see a method, or a result you want to get, there's really no substitute for doing when it comes to carving anything (I am not a furniture carver, only little bits on tools, but every spectacular carving I've seen has someone behind it saying "carving is something you learn at the bench and not from the book".

I'd keep the number of items limited at first because carving tools are expensive and anything you do that is different is going to require more tools. Basic furniture items like shells, etc, often have a list of gouges needed to do them (when they're taught to a beginner).

I've gotten some books, and while they're OK, I don't think anything is nearly as good as a general idea and then getting experience.

[Daniel Rode]

I'm think about gouges for cleaning up inside curves and really basic things like scallops, divots or finger holes.

Even carving a simple shell is not on the near horizon for me.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Daniel,

Like many topics there is a variety of opinions concerning what tools to use for specific work. The guys who work with green wood often use heavy duty gouges for making bowls, spoons, even for Windsor Chair seats. Country Workshops sells a large variety of heavy duty gouges made by Hans Karlsson in Sweden. Karlsson also makes small gouges, smaller than butt chisels for fine spoon or bowl work that are very popular. I make the small channels in the back of Windsor Chair seats with a small Hirsch gouge. Highland Woodworking carries a large selection of Hirsch Swiss pattern chisels.

There are also a few tools other than gouges that may he of equal or even more help with curved surfaces in furniture. Drawknives and spokeshaves are often used to do the larger cuts, Unless of course you want to go all the way to an Adze or Carving axe. Hollowed out areas are frequently made with a scorp/inshave. A tool that is sort of like a drawknife with a more radically curved blade. Another type of spokeshave, a travisher, is often used for smaller or finer work. There are spokeshaves with much larger blades, curved blades....WoodJoy has a large selection of spokeshaves from 1'-5" blades, from round bodies to flat....Depending on the work, curved surfaces like the rounded edges of a Windsor Chair are typically cut with straight or almost straight blades on drawknives or large spokeshaves.

[David Weaver]

As far as tools, I can't make any recommendations that would bear weight because I'm not a carver. I do like Pfeil tools, though, if buying new.

One of the things i needed for planes was an assortment of gouges for non-critical cuts, like you're talking about with finger grooves. When I realized that various sized planes would need various sized gouges (especially moulding planes, but to some extent to carve eyes and details on bench planes - tiny little bits of carving, but they can't look bad), so I got this set:

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G7957-Japanese-Gouge-6-Pack/dp/B0000DD6UB

I like them a lot. To some extent, you have to find the sweet spot where they're not chippy, but once you do, for mallet work they're nice, and for non-mallet work, the handles don't bother me as they do some folks. If they bother you, you'll probably never strike them hard enough to need the ring and you can just take it off.

I'll bet I have 50 gouges of various types, and if I tried to take a class or something, I'd still have to buy several to be able to do the subject project.

[Mike Holbrook]

For smaller work I would check out the Hirsch Swedish pattern gouges at Highland Woodworking. I think you might also find some interesting options at Country Workshops>tools>specialty chisels and gouges---particularly the Karlsson Mini Spoon Gouge. My other suggestion would be a spokeshave like the WoodJoy 2" Performance Shave, compass. The Master WoodJoy shave is nice but much larger and I think a little more difficult to use if you do not use spokeshaves regularly. The finer work on Windsor chair seat curved edges and hollowed out seats is frequently done with a spokeshave with a flat or slightly curved bottom and a straight blade. The "round" spindles for Windsor Chairs are typically made with drawknives and spokeshaves with flat bottoms and straight blades. You don't necessarily need a curved blade for curved edges. Steep small concave areas are where one needs a gouge, although they come in handy for removing larger amounts of wood too.

Gouges and other tools with curved blades can scoop out larger chunks of wood without as much risk of causing the splits and cracks common to using a flat blade for the same work.

[Jim Koepke]

Any pointers?

Any specifics?

There is a lot to learn about sharpening. Just like chisels one wants an edge sharp enough to to remove material without opening the grain. This is especially important when working across the grain on a surface that will be seen.

There is a lot to learn about technique. A slicing cut can be achieved by turning a gouge on its axis while driving it through or across the work.

Are you curious about the different makers? My gouges are an eclectic mix from old Butcher and Buck Brothers to more modern H. Taylor and Two Cherries.

Roy Underhill has a few episodes with Mary May on the Woodwright's Workshop. She is mostly about carving. On one episode she explains sharpening. She also does some 'carving' of furniture items.

There is also use for gouges when working with molding. When pieces are 'coped' it helps to have a gouge for trimming pieces to fit together. Gouges also are needed if a molding shape is followed around a corner.

Here is a piece of mine where gouges helped to bring the molding shape around the corners. A Stanley #45 was used to make the beads across the front. Gouges were used to take it around the sides and back.

300868300867

For faring a curved area my preference is for a shallow sweep.

Most of my gouges came from buying on ebay or while out on rust hunts.

So there are a few possible pointers. If something isn't covered, you will need to ask another question.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

This is one of those instances where I'm trying to find tools to do something that I've struggled with using hand tools.

Curves on a case side, for example. With power tools, one might use a router and a template or and band saw and spindle sander create the curves. I'm trying to find ways to do the same with hand tools. I've sometimes found a coping saw and /or rasp wanting for this kind of work but an incannel gouge seems like it would work nicely.

The other day, I wanted to create an elongated recess (like a countersink) for a screw head to compliment the slot I'd made for the screw. I tried with a small chisel and it came out like crap. I think a small gouge would have let me make it properly.

[Jim Koepke]

Making a recess for screw movement is a touch tricky. Like so many other things it becomes easier with time (read practice).

Another item you might consider if you do not already have one is a plane like the Stanley #20 or #113.

For outside curves they are not as important as they are for inside curves. It can still be easier than using a block plane on the outside (convex) curves.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I think it might help to start looking at the larger work and work towards smaller amounts of wood removal. This approach will give you a better idea of what tools and approaches to use for which work moving from larger to smaller work. I was amazed to se how much wood can be removed with a drawknife in a hurry. The link to a Curtis Buchanan YouTube video shows how Curtis works a Windsor chair seat down from what comes off the bandsaw. Curtis has something like 52 free videos on YouTube that are very educational. Curtis uses gouges and a host of other tools you may find helpful for the kinds of work you mention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmeQIjfLdWA&list=PLL_KlogKd1xf-P7ObrjmBHEWgiZAl37lx&index=18

[Michael Ray Smith]

Thanks for asking the question. I'm in exactly the same place you are. . .well, maybe a bit behind where you are. My interest is more in simple relief carving to add a bit of interest to the small boxes I make. Emphasis on simple because an artist, I ain't.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a bunch of carving tutorial on my web site here (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Tutorials.htm). For each one, I try to list the tools I use. See if any of those tutorials are of value to you.

Most of my carving tools are Pfeil (Swiss Made) but all the name brands are good. Just what fits your hand best.

Mike

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Mike!

I'll definitely check out your carving tutorials. The jambalaya looks like it's worth a try as well ;) Even if I'm not necessarily trying to carve something specific, learning how to use the tools has got the be helpful.

[Christopher Charles]

I binged on Mary May's series of free videos (have to register but that's it). Covers most of the basics and I find watch videos for carving really useful. I have yet to do any real projects, but now i feel semi-proficient for little details like the one you described.

https://www.marymaycarving.com/carvingschool/


Good luck.
C

PS, I just checked Mike's tutorials and they are great too--definitely check them out as well.

[Allen Jordan]

I recently bought a few large gouges off ebay. One thing you have to consider is sharpening on the inside of the curve... not really possible with standard flat stones. I ended up buying some fine abrasive PSA-backed paper from lee valley which I plan on sticking to some curved hardwood forms. Hopefully I can use the gouges themselves to make the forms the perfect shape.

[Jim Koepke]

I recently bought a few large gouges off ebay. One thing you have to consider is sharpening on the inside of the curve... not really possible with standard flat stones. I ended up buying some fine abrasive PSA-backed paper from lee valley which I plan on sticking to some curved hardwood forms. Hopefully I can use the gouges themselves to make the forms the perfect shape.

Lee Valley sells carver's slip water stones up to an 8000 grit. At about the same time an 8000 water stone slip was bought from Lee Valley, a translucent Arkansas slip stone was bought from Dan's Whetstone Co.

A 1000 and 4000 water slip stone had already been bought years ago from Woodcraft. A grey slip oilstone and a fine India slip stone had already found their way into my accumulation from places unknown.

The hardwood forms have worked for me. The big problem is making them for each gouge can be time consuming. The easy way is to make an indention with the intended gouge in the end of the blank and then use a block plane to come close. If the gouge isn't too dull you may be able to use it to pare the shape a little. As the gouge gets sharper, it will be easier to use for refining the forms shape.

Different sized dowels can also help when using abrasive sheets.

Some of the gouges that came to me sharpened in cannel are being converted a sharpening at a time to being out cannel. Mostly this is being done with duplicates if there isn't already and out cannel of the same size and sweep.

For stropping I have a piece of very supple leather. It can be laid over a form or held in hand.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Mike, I just made and ate the Jambalaya from your website. Great! I like that kind of stuff, it is a little bit like Paella. But I have no idea what kind of Italian sausages you can buy overthere in the States, I used an Italian salami instead.

Oh this thread is about gouges? Nice tools they are, gouges. ;)