I'm trying...I really am...

[Harold Burrell]

Little by little, I am trying to do more and more of my work with hand tools. I enjoy it. I really do.

Anyway...this past weekend, I was attempting to edge joint 2 boards with my hand planes. The boards were about 3ft long and 3/4" thick. I clamped them in my leg vise with their opposing faces together (I'm not sure if that is how you describe it, but you know what I mean) and started going at them with my #8.

I was getting a good full-length shaving. So I then took them out of the vise and put them together to check my progress...

:eek:

Gaps on either ends that I could have put my head through...(well, not quite, but definitely unacceptable).

OK. I know that I need to work on my technique. And I know that I need to try and "scoop" the cut more. I also know that whatever mistake(s) I made was mirror-imaged and, therefore, doubled when I put them together. But...COME ON!

I almost tried to convince myself that this was what I wanted. You know, the whole "spring joint" thing.

Which makes me wonder...was the whole "spring joint" method created by guys who could never get this right??? ;)

Anyway...just wanted to vent and whine. You know, my wife wouldn't really understand. *sigh*

[george wilson]

A small spring joint is the correct way to glue up long boards. But,not too much hollowness or the board will eventually pull the glue loose.

[Robert Hazelwood]

It's pretty easy to make a convex surface, even with a long plane. So I usually do short stopped strokes starting in the middle of the length, as if I'm trying to make a hollow. Gradually make the strokes longer until I'm making through-shavings. And I'll stop after the first through-shaving, because taking any more will usually result in some amount of convexity.

[Mel Fulks]

Charles Heyward wrote about and explained sprung joints more than anyone else I know of, but some today are dismissive. I've used them since the early
1970s and never had a panel ,interior or exterior, open up. They can be done on a power jointer, and except in a few
special cases with old repair work , that's what I've always done. Certainly can be done with a hand plane.

[Patrick Harper]

Harold, one of the most important things you can do is check your progress regularly. This was one of the hardest lessons for me to learn. An easy way to get rid of a convex edge is to take short strokes from the middle, just until your jointer will no longer take a shaving. Then go from end to end just until you get a full length shaving. This has worked very well for me. It even works for flattening faces with a Jack and/or Jointer.

[Harold Burrell]

Harold, one of the most important things you can do is check your progress regularly. This was one of the hardest lessons for me to learn. An easy way to get rid of a convex edge is to take short strokes from the middle, just until your jointer will no longer take a shaving. Then go from end to end just until you get a full length shaving. This has worked very well for me. It even works for flattening faces with a Jack and/or Jointer.

"Short strokes from the middle"...do you mean in both directions?

[Patrick Harper]

No, just with the grain like normal. This will create a slight hollow, which will give your jointer plane support at each end of the board. This will make it a lot harder for you to accidentally make the edge convex.

[Harold Burrell]

No, just with the grain like normal. This will create a slight hollow, which will give your jointer plane support at each end of the board. This will make it a lot harder for you to accidentally make the edge convex.

Thanks for the replies all.

Patrick...please forgive me for my foolish questions...and, yes, I am probably over-complicating this...but should I start my cut then in the middle? Or, perhaps, at 1/3 or so?

[Warren Mickley]

A lot of beginners think that the plane is supposed to do the work and that if it does not yield a flat surface, they must be holding it wrong or something. Instead the idea is that the plane is used to remove the high spots. Use a straight edge to survey the landscape and make a mental picture of the highs and lows. Then use the plane only on the high spots until they have been eliminated. It is nice to take a full length shaving once the edge is already flat. If the edge is convex, don't plane either end until it is no longer convex. If it is concave, don't plane the middle until it is no longer concave.

For a beginner it might be helpful to flatten the edge with a short smoothing plane to disabuse oneself of the notion that the plane is doing the correcting rather than the operator.

[Pat Barry]

Gaps on either ends that I could have put my head through...(well, not quite, but definitely unacceptable).

OK. I know that I need to work on my technique. And I know that I need to try and "scoop" the cut more. I also know that whatever mistake(s) I made was mirror-imaged and, therefore, doubled when I put them together. But...COME ON!

I almost tried to convince myself that this was what I wanted. You know, the whole "spring joint" thing.

Which makes me wonder...was the whole "spring joint" method created by guys who could never get this right??? ;)

The answer is yes, tis better to be a wee bit sprung as you say. On the other hand, that implies a gap in center, not the ends. There is no doubt that 'perfectly' straight is the way to go but when in doubt spring it out. LOL

[lowell holmes]

If your just starting out, you may not know about using the edge of your plane as a straight edge to check for straightness.
It helps me when I'm planing an edge.

[Harold Burrell]

A lot of beginners think that the plane is supposed to do the work and that if it does not yield a flat surface, they must be holding it wrong or something.

Yep. That would be me.

Thanks for the info. :D

[Brian Holcombe]

Personally I just lead in a few inches and stop short a few inches.

If you do not have a ground straight edge I would recommend picking one up, it can save you a lot of headaches. Many people just lean the plane on edge and sometimes I do that for quick reference but I generally prefer a straight edge since.

If I need something to be very precise I will use a feeler gauge to find highs and lows.

Edit; looks like warren beat me to it.

[Patrick Harper]

Thanks for the replies all.

Patrick...please forgive me for my foolish questions...and, yes, I am probably over-complicating this...but should I start my cut then in the middle? Or, perhaps, at 1/3 or so?

Yeah, you're over thinking it just a little bit. Just concentrate on taking shavings from the center 2/3rds - 3/4ths of the board until you create a slight concavity.

[Judson Green]

Personally I just lead in a few inches and stop short a few inches.

If you do not have a ground straight edge I would recommend picking one up, it can save you a lot of headaches. Many people just lean the plane on edge and sometimes I do that for quick reference but I generally prefer a straight edge since.

If I need something to be very precise I will use a feeler gauge to find highs and lows.

Edit; looks like warren beat me to it.

Yeah I do the same, might start in farther/stop sooner with longer boards till I get the convex I'm looking for then I'll take one (or more till there's the cut is smooth) final pass full length.

A good long level will also work just fine for a straight edge, it does for me. If I see just a bit of light under the level in the middle I know the joint should be good.

You'll get it, just keep at it! And once you do it'll be easy peasy.

[Augusto Orosco]

A lot of beginners think that the plane is supposed to do the work and that if it does not yield a flat surface, they must be holding it wrong or something. Instead the idea is that the plane is used to remove the high spots.

Indeed! I learned this the hard way (and am still learning... as a newbie I am still struggling with many things). A lot of my time was spent going almost robotically through the text-book explanation of how to perform an operation with the hand plane. Plane across grain the entire board until every stroke give you a full shaving ... check... plane diagonally the entire board until you get full shavings ...check... plane along the grain until you get full shavings... check. It took forever and my results were always unacceptable. Same issue with squaring an edge. Once I started taking ownership of what I was doing and thinking of the plane as a tool, not the brain, everything became more economical and precise, with matching results. As it is usual the case for many, I was in a power-tool mindset, in which you rip, joint, plane and rip again to get to four square; and let the machine do the work for you. With hand-tools, there is an infinite number of ways you can approach the issue, and the most efficient approaches are always based on a good read of the particular characteristics of the board you are trying to tame.

I don't fully regret the faults on my old ways, though. The pain and frustration caused by my wrong ways made for a lesson well learned. I think I am now better equipped to attack any task with a more critical and hopefully smarter approach that still builds on fundamental and sound technique.

[Mel Fulks]

I disagree that perfectly straight is better. With a sprung joint you take advantage of the fact that the ends are easily
compressed and will counteract the shrink causing air they will encounter. It's impossible to compress the middle to bring
the ends in contact. Seen it tried lots of times though. Even when using electric jointers to get " perfectly straight" edges the machines often have a slight bias toward leaving slightly open ends. It's tolerated because because a lot of guys don't
know how to adjust a jointer accurately and would rather deal with convex edges than have a board climb.

[Warren Mickley]

Indeed! I learned this the hard way (and am still learning... as a newbie I am still struggling with many things). A lot of my time was spent going almost robotically through the text-book explanation of how to perform an operation with the hand plane. Plane across grain the entire board until every stroke give you a full shaving ... check... plane diagonally the entire board until you get full shavings ...check... plane along the grain until you get full shavings... check. It took forever and my results were always unacceptable. Same issue with squaring an edge. Once I started taking ownership of what I was doing and thinking of the plane as a tool, not the brain, everything became more economical and precise, with matching results. As it is usual the case for many, I was in a power-tool mindset, in which you rip, joint, plane and rip again to get to four square; and let the machine do the work for you. With hand-tools, there is an infinite number of ways you can approach the issue, and the most efficient approaches are always based on a good read of the particular characteristics of the board you are trying to tame.

I don't fully regret the faults on my old ways, though. The pain and frustration caused by my wrong ways made for a lesson well learned. I think I am now better equipped to attack any task with a more critical and hopefully smarter approach that still builds on fundamental and sound technique.

Thanks for this, Augusto. Yes, take ownership. They say that converts make the best proselytisers. I think that if I had written what you wrote, some might have written "many ways to skin a cat" or "its all good" without appreciating an efficient approach rather than a formulaic "power-tool mindset". Your paragraphs are more convincing.

[Steve Voigt]

I disagree that perfectly straight is better. With a sprung joint you take advantage of the fact that the ends are easily
compressed and will counteract the shrink causing air they will encounter. It's impossible to compress the middle to bring
the ends in contact. Seen it tried lots of times though. Even when using electric jointers to get " perfectly straight" edges the machines often have a slight bias toward leaving slightly open ends. It's tolerated because because a lot of guys don't
know how to adjust a jointer accurately and would rather deal with convex edges than have a board climb.

I prefer spring joints also, although I have found I get nicer-looking joints if the spring is just barely there … just a couple thousandths of an inch.

Mel, you reminded me of a recent post by Paul Sellers. Someone asked him about spring joints, and he responded by advocating a convex joint that you close with pinch dogs on the ends! Seems crazy to me, but I'm not surprised to find him doing the opposite of established practice…it's a good way to generate publicity…

[Steve Voigt]

Slight tangent here. Sorry Harold.

A few weeks ago, the subject of cambered jointing irons came up, and some expressed skepticism about the strength of the joint, and whether the joint would fully close across the full thickness of the boards. I was scraping this chair seat tonight, and realized it was pretty good evidence of how well a cambered iron can work.

Here's the seat, 3 boards (it's not done yet, obviously). Sorry, not the greatest pics, but I think they make the point.

300831

Here the camera is centered over the left and middle boards:

300832


And here it's centered over the right and middle boards.

300833

So, the interesting thing to me is, the carving at the back goes to almost half the depth of the board. I was using an iron the had probably .003 or .004 camber. If there were any problem with using a cambered iron, it would show up here. So I think we can consider that case closed.

[Jim Matthews]

I use a four foot aluminum level and a strong backlight to see how I'm getting on.

The plane blade needs to protrude most in the middle of the sole, not to the left or right.
A cambered blade shape makes it easier, but I can't reliable grind mine in that profile.
I just knock off the corners so they don't leave tracks.

I try to emulate what Bob Rozaieski demonstrates on his excellent Logan Cabinet Shoppe podcast.

He demonstrates what Brian Holcombe mentions above at 6:50 or so in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZAaCaOJhkg).

The sound the plane makes when it stops cutting is important,
that indicates you've made a sufficient hollow in the edges.

I believe that this is the key to making a sprung joint,
the center is lower than the outside edges by about 4x the maximum depth of cut.

At 7:23 in the video, BR uses a much longer body plane with a dead straight iron - no camber.
At this point, he's trying to get a full length shaving, and not before.

The jointer plane is used to get the finished joint, straight and flat.
Listen to the sound of the jointer at 8:00.

It cuts on the ends of the boards, first and skims clear of the hollow made earlier.
When he can hear the jointer cutting full length, he stops.

I'm exploring the method shown by Terry Gordon, using the benchtop as a long shooting board (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkdWMIBhNc).
I think this method takes a lot of the alignment errors out of the problem.

The trick is getting a known flat reference, in either method.

The last example I'll post is pretty fast, and poorly mic'd so it can be difficult to follow.

The camera is pointed at the center of the boards being jointed, so you can
see his progress from roughing the boards close to square, forming a hollow
and final jointing - all with a #5. He's clearly practiced, so he's faster than I try to work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDyR1DiZrYA

[Harold Burrell]

So I think we can consider that case closed.

Yeah...and the joints too! REALLY nice job on this!

[Prashun Patel]

Don't quit. If I can do it anyone can.

Rocking a long straight edge on the boards helped me.

Also, try sighting down the boards and look for the offending areas. I was surprised this worked for me.

I had problems at the leading edge of the board. I don't think my entry was engaging correctly so I was ending up with a sprung joint unintentionally too.

[Tom Henderson2]

David Charlesworths hand plane video shows the process beautifully I highly recommend it.

watch the video once and you will have first-time success when you go to apply it.

-Tom in Ventura

[Brian Holcombe]

I'd go for sprung over convex, I don't like attempting to close gaps near the ends.