What lumber was used on the interiors of old shops and mills in new england, etc?

[Dev Emch]

I am curious about what lumber was used on the walls and ceiling of old vintage machine shops and mills. Many older patternmaker shops also had this woodwork. Here is one example of what I mean. Was this douglas fir with varnish? Any other ideas?

[Dev Emch]

I am curious about what lumber was used on the walls and ceiling of old vintage machine shops and mills. Many older patternmaker shops also had this woodwork. Here is one example of what I mean. Was this douglas fir with varnish? Any other ideas?

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Dev,

sorry, I can't answer you question but I'd like to thank you for the pics. I really enjoy seeing old shops.

Regards,

Christian

[Alan Turner]

Dev,
I'm with Christian on this. Thanks for the pix. I don't know about the wood used, but the old tools are gorgeous. So well made. Swoon. I'm thinking I may need the twelve step program. And, that is for both wood and old iron. Boy will that be a lot of meetings.

[Bill Simmeth]

Was this douglas fir with varnish?Dev, great pics. Amongst all those leather belts, that one large motor in the 2nd pic really jumps out at you, tho! I've seen this shop pictured before, but can't place it. Where is it?

As to the wood, we didn't/don't have native doug fir out here on the right coast. If you're looking at replicating a "New England" shop, it would have been pine T&G, varnished. More specifically, for the look you're after, "old growth" pine with its tighter grain structure that has a very different look from what's on the shelves today. A lot of that is being recycled, but pricey.

Bill in Delaplane, VA

[Chris Barton]

Looks like pine. Great pics!

[Jim Becker]

I am thinking they used whatever was available...that happens to look like D-Fir or something similar, but no way to tell just from pics.

[Chris Mann]

It's definitely old long leaf pine, or what is most often called heart of pine. Probably a grade below what would be used on floors.

[Bob Smalser]

Like now, it depended on what was the best value. Since the 1860's, the millwork adorning large commercial structures (and also most homes) came from large mills who brought in wood by rail from the major logging operations of the time.

By the late 1800's most of the good, tight-ringed New England pine and spruce had already been cut, and I suspect it was the large southern Longleaf Pine forests supplying the mills with the long, clear stock they required.

A bit later....especially on the West Coast....redwood was exploited. Throughout Washington the West and Canada, the drop siding and much interior millwork you see on structures built in the early 1900's was California redwood, not the local red cedars....because the lumber schooners hauled raw logs from the pac NW down to San Francisco and hauled this siding and other millwork on the return trip.

Doug Fir was exploited on a large scale even later...my tree farm wasn't logged for the first time until 1936...but it never was the preferred wood for this type of millwork, as it doesn't finish crisply. Yes, the old-growth makes nice cabinets, but it's forte is strength to weight and its ability to remain as straight as a new arrow under poor storage conditions....a structural wood equaled by few species.

Old-growth forests are still being exploited in British Columbia and I can refer you to mills where you can still buy perfect DF, WRC, AYC and Sitka Spruce stock in the $1.80-4.00/bf range.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3019409/36929015.jpg

Two years ago I helped a neighbor frame his roof with this BC DF he paid less than 2 bucks a bf for.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3019409/37455164.jpg

[Lou Morrissette]

A lot of the old lumber coming from old mills and homes here in New england is Southern Yellow Pine. It is being recyled for use as flooring and tends to be pricey.

Lou

[thomas prevost]

Don't know about this particular shop, but much of the wainscoating used in shops in mid New york and western Mass were of heart pine and spruce usually with a shellac finish. most large beam work was Doug fir or occassionaly spruce.


Also, I am not sure of the exact address, but there is an old water powered and belt driven planning/molding mill still being operated near Watertown, NY. Anyone vacationing in the Thousand Islands or traveling 81 north to Canada may want to look it up. Been featured a few times in local papers.

[lou sansone]

I have worked in a number of NE mills and have rehab'd them. Those mills were from around 1850's . I can't speak for ealier mills. In general the actual floor and ceiling that you walk on was 3/4" t&g maple. Under that was 2 layers of 3" thick t&g SYP ( for a total of 6 " ). Beams were oak or old growth pine.

lou

[Bill Fields]

The wood looks like "long leaf yellow pine", probably from the old growth forests of AL/MS/GA.

My father and grandfather ran on of the larger operations in Pine Apple AL. I can still smell the wood being re-sawn, planed and air-dried.

Most of their production during WW2 went to New Orleans based Higgins Industries for building PT boats.

BILL FIELDS

[Dev Emch]

Thanks everyone for the info. You have to admit that photos of this shop can really make you drag your tonque and be forced into a 12 step program.:D

Here is the worst thing. The owner of this shop passed away and it was auctioned off. The modern milling machine, the post drill with the large motor and one 2 foot long, 2nd op bench lathe went their own way. There was a 1914 olds or caddy and it went its own way. The rest of the shop including all the belt machines such as the turret lathe, the large lathes, the metal planer, grinders, etc. all went for about $3000 dollars total! About 90 percent of the total shop.

As I understand it, the cheasepeke live steamers now have this shop and are looking for new building to house it. They are a non-profit group and deal with lots of living history. If you wish, you can make a donation for thier building fund.

What is truely amazing is how well preserved this all was. The gent who owned it was fantastic in taking care of what he had. And not all of his machines were shaft drive as mentioned. So he was a bit ecelctic in this regard. My hat is off to this gent.

The decor of this shop is wonderful. Look how the T&G with its shellac finish augments the gray and machined surfaces. Then the use of that off gloss green on the shaft drive hardware adds some nice trim color. Very Nice.

I have seen this motif comming back. A number of award winning kitchens are using the turn of the century motif with D.Fir cabinets or arts & crafts oak cabinets along with 1820s style fittings such as offwhite subway tiles and updated facets. The plumbing uses the modern engineering items packaged into a package from the vintage days. Handles are porcelan with glazed black "HOT" and "COLD" written on them. The really moden appliances are hidden behind cabinet work. Units like the diswasher and the frig. Truely the best of the new and the old. The way it should be.:)

[Joe Unni]

I have worked in a number of NE mills and have rehab'd them. Those mills were from around 1850's . I can't speak for ealier mills. In general the actual floor and ceiling that you walk on was 3/4" t&g maple. Under that was 2 layers of 3" thick t&g SYP ( for a total of 6 " ). Beams were oak or old growth pine.

lou

I concur. My shop is in one of those old mills in the Merrimac Valley. Too bad most of it is completely covered with about 100 years of paint.

-joe

[lou sansone]

I concur. My shop is in one of those old mills in the Merrimac Valley. Too bad most of it is completely covered with about 100 years of paint.

-joe

You would be amazed at what a floor sander can do! The walls and ceiling are a little harder to clean up. Great places to have a shop though. they usually have great natural light .

lou

[Steve Stube]

More information on this shop and its sale is explained by Vince in this link where he gives the direction to the other photos, info on the floor, and the $34k price on the Curved Dash Olds (from the photo I see it is a pre 1904 CDO).

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001223

Hope this link doesn't violate any rules of SMC.

[Dave Richards]

Those pictures look like they're of the machine shop at the Hagely Museum, Du Pont's black powder mill along the Brandywine River in Delaware. Is that right?

[Dev Emch]

Dave...
The stuff I posted was not from Du Pont. But if anyone has more info on the place you mentioned, please let us know. The stuff that Steve posted is new to me and I am still drueling over all of it.

[Dave Richards]

Dev, I can find much in the way of photos on the web from there but if you have a chance you should go. The machine shop is very similar to the one in the pictures. The fellow there will run the machines flipping belts on and off the wheels on the overhead line shaft.

The buildings where they actually made the powder is interesting, too. Thick stone walls on three sides. The fourth side was open to the river and the roofs were light sheetmetal and wood affairs. The idea was when (not if) a batch of powder blew up, the explosion was not contained and it would only kill the men in that particular mill. There are a number of these buildings along the river bank. The blast was directed up and across the river. Kind of a scary thought.

[Dev Emch]

Yahhh, I read about this operation. The other thing that was gross was that they mixed the ingredients, namely charcoal powder, patasium nitrate and sulfer in with a copious quanity of urine. This mixture was then mixed up like a betty crocker cake mix and baked into blocks which were then pulverized and graded to make the powder. The larger chunks used in heavy cannons and the fine powder used to prime flint locks. I guess that as long as the urine was moist, the powder was safe. As soon as it dried out, it was considered extremely risky.