Need some help with possible combination machine purchase

[Ronald Knapp]

After I retired we mulled over renovating or building new. We decided to build a new house. My plans called for a separate 24X24 workshop but the builder (who is also a woodworker) suggested because the land slopes in the rear I could move the house back and build a walkout basement. He suggested a bump out for the machinery and building the bench room in the basement (the upper part of the bump out will be the kitchen). I will have to see what the architect will come up with but it sounds good to me.


My question has to do with the clearance size I will need to allow for using a combination machine and more important how big a door will I need to get the thing in. If I build a separate building I would have a large sliding door and there will be no problem. With the house I would rather not use a large garage type door for design reasons. I know I will have to install a large door perhaps 48” and I know the combination machine will be shipped broken down somewhat but I have been unable to find the shipping size for the few machines I have looked at. I’m thinking of something along the line of a Hammer C3 31 Comfort, Mini Max CU300 classic, Felder CF 531 Professional or the like. I know I could probably call the companies but I would rather not get more sales calls until I’m ready to buy when I build the house next year.


I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with this type of machine as to the amount of clearance needed to comfortably work around the machine and more importantly how did it ship and how difficult was it to install. I know they are very heavy and I plan on hiring a professional to do the actual move.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, you're making a good decision in looking at that sort of machine.

The Felder and Hammer machines such as Jointer/planer and saw/shaper fit through a standard doorway.

If you order the full combination machine with all 4 functions, you really get 2 X 2 function machines together. If when you order them ( they're custom built to order), you specify that you want to be able to separate them, and all the electrical interconnections are now made with plugs/sockets so you can take each 2 function machine through a standard door and then put them into a 4 function block again.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner with 49" sliding table, and the A3-31 J/P in a very small townhouse basement shop.

In small shops, the J/P and the saw/shaper often do better as 2 machines rather than the larger square 4 function machine. (The j/P for example does very well along a wall in a hallway or narrower area for example.

I have the outrigger for my saw/shaper normally hanging on the wall, that way the machine is small, yet ready to handle sheet goods, or crosscut a tabletop for example simply by spending one minute to put the outrigger on.

I also have the scoring saw, don't order your saw without it, and the stock feeder on the flip up bracket. I also have the mobility kit to easilly move the machine as required.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Now's the time to buy, Felder/Hammer are running Christmas promotions now, I don't know if MiniMax are, worth checking out all of them.

Have you watched the videos?

[Bill Adamsen]

You need very little working room on the jp side, lots of length and width for the sliding table (8' wide 17' long?) depending on configuration and required flexibility. Figuring out how to get your maximum length for saw rips, or jp feeds is really the most important factor, since the machines you mention are not really mobile. So with the dimensions of the shop you mention, a strategically placed double door near center of one end would be very nice - both for as you mention, getting the tool in (and eventually out) but also for material handling. Double because the saw blade and jp are far enough apart, that it would be unlikely to get a long feed through saw and jp with just a 3' door. Mine has a 6' wide (double) door, and that works great. My machine is setup diagonally. I also have a 5' wide low window at the other end, since on occasion I mill very long pieces (16 to 18 feet) for boats. This would encourage placement near one end of the shop, so that with the doors open, the length becomes effectively 30 or so feet (given your dimensions if I understand them).

An alternative is to go with smaller separate machines that are more portable and can be moved into a specific position when that unusual job comes up. Good luck with planning! I always think of planning as 90% of the fun.

[Ralph Okonieski]

"Standard doorway"? Doorways can vary, so be sure to find out EXACT dimensions of the machine and compare to the doorway. I had to remove the door frame on my 30 inch basement door to get a Minimax C32 Genius through.

I have the C32 in an area that is ~8 ft wide; it is a little tight but usable.

There were some parts to install on my combo, but no issues. It arrived on a pallet, wrapped in plastic and surrounded by heavy cardboard. The parts were wrapped and fastened to the machine inside the cardboard. I had a professional company move mine. I'm not as adventurous as Rod. My experience with Minimax was positive. I like the machine very much. Hammer also makes a quality machine.

Good luck.

[Roy Harding]

I have a CF531 Professional. It came into my shop through the french doors, which give me a five foot opening - it would not fit through a "standard" door. As far as floorspace goes, Felder has good "working footprint" diagrams which you can use for planning. I found that my actual requirements for space were within an inch or two of the footprint diagrams they provided.

I've never heard of the option to have the combo shipped as two separate machines that someone above discssed - that would be ideal, although more of a pain to assemble upon arrival. When my CF531 arrived, I assembled the outrigger, and that was pretty much it.

All that said - over the years, I've found that the french doors were a stroke of genius when I designed the shop. Aside from the light they let in, having a 60" opening to bring raw materials in, or finished products out makes life so much easier - even if most of what I bring in/take out would fit through the "normal" 32" door.

Best of luck to you.

[Jim Andrew]

You might consider the Minimax combo listed for sale on the forum. The price is amazing for a hobby machine. If it is still available. I'd consider talking to the builder about a slightly taller basement than standard. You can gain a few inches by putting the floor level with the footing. Have to trowel the footings around the inside edge when they are poured, so they are not rough. Saves sand.

[Ronald Knapp]

Thanks for your suggestion about splitting the machine in 2 parts. I hadn't considered that. The current house design would result in a 16' X 16' machine room. The remainder would be placed in the main basement. I work with hand tools a great deal and I think this may work. I do have a fair amount of woodworking machines but I usually take advantage of my local trade school evening classes. Having access to a 36" planner along with large cross cut saws and 30" belt sanders is worth the small amount of money they charge. It only meets once a week during the school year and not at all during the summer when I am most active hence my desire to reconfigure my current setup.

Thanks to everyone who replied. There was some good information I feel I have a good idea how this might work. When I meet the builder this week I hope to get some clarification on what he meant about a walk out. I received approval from my town this last week and my submission included a 24 X 24 separate workshop so if I decided to go that route I do not need any other approvals.

I did watch some of the videos which made me want to run out and buy it now but I think moving it once will be enough so i'll wait. Nice to have so many so many good choices in manufacturors to choose from.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Just my two cents, 8 foot ceilings is sometimes standard in walkout basements. See if you can go to 9' or even better 10'. Much better now then later.

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm really thinking you need to look for a used Knapp, that would just be too cool.

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?222736-KNAPP-Combination-Machine-Profi-410P

Might still be for sale!

[Graham Hutchinson]

+1 on the higher ceiling, very useful for ducting and dust collection. Noise insulation may be another thing to think about if the shop is under or adjoining the house.