If you were starting from scratch...

[Ryan Grubbs]

Hopefully this is the right spot for this! So I'm getting ready to step further into woodworking, and I'm a bit curious here.

If you were starting from scratch...going to build a building and everything...

How big would you build?
What tools would you include?
How would you orient your tools? As in table saw in X location, lathe here, etc.

Assume you want a fully functional shop capable of producing nice quality furniture. I'm curious to hear what tools you'd like to have, not the brands.

Cheers!

[Chris Parks]

Build it twice as big as you think you need and install a DE system before anything else.

[Marty Tippin]

For the building:
* Plan for many more electrical outlets and separate circuits than whatever you think you currently need - double gang outlets with separate circuits on each duplex receptacle. Think about overhead outlets that will allow you to position your tools anywhere you want (or, if your plans allow, a raised floor with outlets in the floor).
* Plan for 20 amp 120VAC circuits and 30 amp 240VAC circuits. Or at least go bigger than code says you have to on the wiring, you can upgrade the breakers and outlets later if necessary.
* Plan for complete climate control - insulation, heating, a/c - even if you won't install those initially.
* Plan for a full dust collection system, preferably with the cyclone outside the building or at least in a separate space if you can.

Tool layout is tough - it's hard to really visualize whether one layout or another is better until you have all the tools, workbenches, cabinets, shelves, etc. all in place.

As for tools, I'd think a good-quality table saw with large rip capacity and a huge outfeed table, 8" (or 12" if you can afford it) jointer, 15" (or 20" if you can afford it) planer, router table, drill press, disc / belt / drum sander of some sort and, if you think you really need it, a nice lathe with plenty of capacity. There are a zillion smaller tools you'll eventually need as well...

[mike holden]

install a DE system before anything else.

What is a "DE system" ?

[Chris Padilla]

Dust Elimination?

I would have a separate finishing room in my fantasy shop and a nice big sliding table saw. Vaulted ceilings with a loft for wood storage. An overhead crane on a rail would be cool for lifting large things. :)

[Bill Adamsen]

+ for


XY overhead gantry crane
finishing room
high ceilings
well planned lighting
layout and drawer-storage

[Ted Reischl]

Hopefully this is the right spot for this! So I'm getting ready to step further into woodworking, and I'm a bit curious here.

If you were starting from scratch...going to build a building and everything...

How big would you build?
What tools would you include?
How would you orient your tools? As in table saw in X location, lathe here, etc.

Assume you want a fully functional shop capable of producing nice quality furniture. I'm curious to hear what tools you'd like to have, not the brands.

Cheers!

How big? That depends on a ton of things, like how much land you have, what you are going to be building, how many machines/tools, etc

I am currently building my last/final shop, it is a 28 X 28 building, I get half. swmbo gets the other half, here is my layout:

300485

After 30+ years woodworking I have discovered what works for me. For instance, I have no need of a jointer. Do that on the TS. Do not need a planer, use a flat panel sander instead. Do not do a lot of sheet goods so my TS can be up against the wall without a ton of space around it. BS is rarely used, so I put it in a corner. I use a RS a LOT, and I mean a LOT! So it is right near my bench. This shop would not work for a lot of people because of how they work and what they build.

Someone said build your shop twice as big as you think you need. I do not agree. If you spend a lot of time in a shop, not just puttering around, those big shops wear you out with all the walking around. Nevermind having to move stock continually. I would advise that you build in such a manner than you can expand easily if need be. For instance, you can pour a much larger slab than you need, put a shed roof over it and enjoy the shade. When you need to expand, wall it in, concrete is already done.

I would advise anyone to create overhead storage space. Mine has a set of stairs in the wife's shop going to an attic with 7' ceiling. Handy to store all sorts of rarely used things.

So, tell us what you want to be making and maybe we can all give you some tips?

Edit: I have built lots of nice furniture in my last shop that was layed out like this. Complete kitchen, three bedroom sets (plans from WoodSmith), lots of high end boxes, shelves, you name it.

[Mark Bolton]

I like Bill's thinking but a lot depends on whether your talking hobby or professional. If full time Id add loading dock, fork truck. Perhaps vacuum lift, CNC for sure. 20 and 30 amp receptacles wouldnt touch it. Well insulated and conditioned as others have said. Id probably start at 5-6k sq' for 1-2 people. The gantry would be a major MAJOR plus. No hobby level tools.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ryan,

I am an amateur woodworker. I built a standalone 30'x24' shop. I wish it was bigger so I could have a dedicated finishing room.

10' ceilings are a must IMO.

[glenn bradley]

It is always interesting to see how differently people work and therefor how differently they value things. I could work comfortably in a 20 x 30 space if I had a finishing room attached and a shed for the DC; I could stick a compressor out there too since I almost never use one. High ceilings allow room for ducting so I am good with that as well. Of course I have added . . . again . . . twice to my electrical plant even though I put in TWICE what I could EVER . . . POSSIBLY need. I would have a wood floor that allowed some bounce so I could lose all the floor mats I currently use to allow me to remain on my feet for extended periods. With the exception of in front of the scroll saw I have no stools in my shop; I'm there to work, I sit in the house ;-) I also don't need a computer in the shop. After 30-odd years in I.T. I go to the shop to get away from computers. I do like to have my music though. Natural light is all well and good but, good lighting of any kind will do for me. I use specific lamps when making or adjusting colorants based on the lighting of where piece I'm making will end up.

[Jim Andrew]

If I were starting over ten years ago, would tear down the old pole building I set up shop in, and orient the building east and west, so I could have more south facing windows. Then I would pour a stem wall around the outside, and also every 12' so I could break my joists over a solid concrete wall. Then I would also pour a stem wall at 24' across the building, so one end could have a concrete floor. Would build trusses 36' wide, using 20' lumber, because you can have 4/12 roof with that much lumber. 20' lumber is much cheaper than longer lengths. And I have a book that details truss building, so would build my own. Would build the walls from 2x6 probably on 24" centers, 10' high. And I would box the building with waferboard, and then use metal for the outside. You can use the synthetic felt, and it seals around the screws. I'd probably go 50 long, maybe 60. The increased width over the 26' wide I have now would be really nice.

[Kevin Bourque]

My dream shop would have a bathroom, lots of big windows, and walls and ceiling made from sound deadening materials.

I would also fix the fence to keep the cows from pooping all over the grass and driveway !!!

[Chris Parks]

What is a "DE system" ?

My apologies.......Dust Extraction

[Chris Padilla]

I was close. ;) We usually call it DC or Dust Collection up here in the northern hemisphere over the pond, Chris. :)

[Jesse Busenitz]

Agreed with a lot of the above. Lots of electrical outlets, good lighting both fixtures and natural with length oriented E/W, wood floor with ducting underneath, dedicated finish room, DC and AC outside of main building, and plenty of closed storage i.e. limited open shelves. I'm in a 22'x19' and I build mostly furniture and cabinets which works for the most part, but finishing is a pain, and I don't have much room to store sheet goods/solid lumber.

[Mark Bolton]

It is always interesting to see how differently people work and therefor how differently they value things. I could work comfortably in a 20 x 30 space if I had a finishing room attached and a shed for the DC; I could stick a compressor out there too since I almost never use one. High ceilings allow room for ducting so I am good with that as well. Of course I have added . . . again . . . twice to my electrical plant even though I put in TWICE what I could EVER . . . POSSIBLY need. I would have a wood floor that allowed some bounce so I could lose all the floor mats I currently use to allow me to remain on my feet for extended periods. With the exception of in front of the scroll saw I have no stools in my shop; I'm there to work, I sit in the house ;-) I also don't need a computer in the shop. After 30-odd years in I.T. I go to the shop to get away from computers. I do like to have my music though. Natural light is all well and good but, good lighting of any kind will do for me. I use specific lamps when making or adjusting colorants based on the lighting of where piece I'm making will end up.

Again, I think it boils down to "what is your shop". Is it a hobby/retreat to get away from your life or enjoy your retirement? Or is it something your moving towards? Or is it a profit making endeavor.

I would love the idea of no computer in the shop but it simply cant happen. Its the lifeblood of my business. But it sure would be nice!! ;)

[Bruce Wrenn]

For me, it would be hydronic heat in the floor, with solar panels to supplement gas/ oil boiler. Minimum of 9' ceilings. Rain channels at roll up doors, to prevent water entry. Couple of sky lights would sure be nice. Due to theft risks, windows would have to be limited, and burglar barred. All wiring in EMT, things can be changed later.

[Art Mann]

How big? That depends on a ton of things, like how much land you have, what you are going to be building, how many machines/tools, etc

I am currently building my last/final shop, it is a 28 X 28 building, I get half. swmbo gets the other half, here is my layout:

300485

After 30+ years woodworking I have discovered what works for me. For instance, I have no need of a jointer. Do that on the TS. Do not need a planer, use a flat panel sander instead. Do not do a lot of sheet goods so my TS can be up against the wall without a ton of space around it. BS is rarely used, so I put it in a corner. I use a RS a LOT, and I mean a LOT! So it is right near my bench. This shop would not work for a lot of people because of how they work and what they build.

Someone said build your shop twice as big as you think you need. I do not agree. If you spend a lot of time in a shop, not just puttering around, those big shops wear you out with all the walking around. Nevermind having to move stock continually. I would advise that you build in such a manner than you can expand easily if need be. For instance, you can pour a much larger slab than you need, put a shed roof over it and enjoy the shade. When you need to expand, wall it in, concrete is already done.

I would advise anyone to create overhead storage space. Mine has a set of stairs in the wife's shop going to an attic with 7' ceiling. Handy to store all sorts of rarely used things.

So, tell us what you want to be making and maybe we can all give you some tips?

Edit: I have built lots of nice furniture in my last shop that was layed out like this. Complete kitchen, three bedroom sets (plans from WoodSmith), lots of high end boxes, shelves, you name it.

It is very interesting and perhaps enlightening to compare my vision with Ted's. He wants what works for him and i want what works for me. First of all, a planer is essential to my shop because I never buy finished lumber. At best it is skip planed on one side. The same is true of a jointer. I need to flatten lumber on one side before I plane it. I use a fair amount of sheet material and a lot of it is 4X8 sheets. That requires a large area for a table saw and out feed table. I use a bandsaw pretty often for resaw work because material that is 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch precision thickness is hard to find and expensive. I need a larger drum sander but simply don't have the room for it right now. I also have a CNC router that takes up a huge amount of space. Some of the items I occasionally build - like cabinets - are quite large and I need a place to store them while the whole job is finished. My shop is running over with raw matrials right now and I would like to buy much more when the opportunity for a good buy opens up. My shop is only 24 X 28 and I feel like I need close to twice that space.

My point on all these comparisons it this. What Ted and I are doing is equally valid but very different. There are other guys on this forum who produce really nice stuff with mostly or exclusively hand tools and the area that Ted is using may be way more than they need. Before you can answer your original questions, you are going to have to decide for yourself what it is you want to accomplish and how you want to do it. My suggestion to you is to try to become acquainted with other woodworkers and visit their shops to see how their equipment and layout might work out for you. If that isn't possible, then build a building that is larger then you think you need and go slow with your equipment purchases until you know better how you will operate.

[Rick Fisher]

One day I will get to build my shop .. I want a plywood floor with a crawl space. A staircase down for storage. Sizzor truss ceilings on 10' walls. And skylights.

[Ray Newman]

What is your budget for this project? I think this would help us all out a great deal -- no use making recommendations about the unaffordable.....

[Mike Heidrick]

I am working on my new one now. existing is 24X42.

New one:
40X64X16 Pole barn
14X14 roll up doors at each end
Ped doors at each end and middle under porch
4 big windows 36X60
Porch is 12X24
Radiant floor heat with nine loops - will install gas boiler
building looped 3/4" Maxline airline with 9 3/4" drops and regulators at each one
Retractable air lines by doors and in middle of ceiling
Hope to install part of the building with a loft and leave most open with 16' under trusses
R19 in walls - fiberglass
French cleat slat wall setup with plywood
Area for metal working
Area for wood/plastic cnc
Area for woodworking and ww bench
Area for sanding
Booth for finishing
200amp dedicated service to building
20hp rotary phase converter and 3ph panel
tons of outlets of both 120 and 220
Lots of lights
Spiral Ductwork for ww machines

[paul cottingham]

Dream shop would include:

Lots of windows
25x40 (I'm chiefly a hand tool guy)
Wooden heated floor
10 ft ceilings
Sliding table saw with good dust collection (I said ideal.)
Big band saw
Planer
Mobile mortiser
DC
3/4" plywood walls. easy to mount toolchests, racks, etc.

[Ryan Grubbs]

Budget is really just depending on what I end up wanting to do! It will likely be something I build myself so that I can save a substantial amount of money building it.

I was thinking 24x24. Central heating and air. And all of my compressors/anything loud would be in a proofed room to itself.

I was really just curious to see how everyone is so different.

[Jim Andrew]

The budget is probably the most important detail. I am semi-retired, so I don't have to make money with my shop, but have lots of things I still want to do, and have always been restricted by that miserable budget. Now I can afford about any shop I need, but have no plans to replace my existing shop. It has been a project that I have scrounged material, done all the work except for the AC, furnace and gas line. When I built the house, had the electric brought in underground, and did the wiring myself. Had a neighbor who was a good electrician, and he would just explain what I needed to do to wire it properly, so just a conversation with him allowed me to do the work, and actually don't have a pile of money in the building. Before buying the Hammer saw, only had about ten thousand in the equipment, but that went out the window last winter. After I saw the ad for that Minimax combo machine, beat myself up for about a week.

[Ted Reischl]

Maybe the best way to start is to decide on what equipment you will need. Going to assume you are not a hand tool person. Most guys have a table saw, then you need to decide how you will do length cuts. I am not a big fan of trying to cut things to length on a TS. So either a RAS or miter saw of some sort. Then, like Art discussed you need to decide on what most of your material is going to be, rough sawn or more to size. If rough sawn I pretty much agree with Art about owning a planer. A band saw is a good idea. It is also one of those tools that can be put on a mobile base so it can generally be parked where it will only do short work, but then rolled out very easily to do long work.

If' n it were me, I would set aside some room for a CNC router. Mine has a cutting area of about 3 X 4 but occupies quite a bit more floor space. Mine has replaced a few tools around the shop. I have a mortising machine that I no longer use because I get much better results on the CNC (I use some vises I built to hold stock on edge). I can also surface plane (flatten) very easily on it, but it is not as fast as a planer, but it can handle a 3 X 4 piece (think live edge table tops).

I use a flat panel sander a lot, got mine for really cheap when a big huge tool store in Chicago was closing out on that line, like $400 for a 16/32 machine.

Windows! Do not cheap out on them. You can get decent windows in the 36x36 for very little money. I am putting a set of french doors on my shop with windows in them. Nothing beats daylight in a shop. It helps you work better and also will tell you if you have a lot of fine dust floating around in the air.

Huge fan of RAS's. Lot of guys do not like them because they heard a lot of negative talk when cheap ones started popping up and non woodworkers bought them thinking they were the Swiss Army knife of the woodworking world. They are not. Mine is set up with stops so I can cut piece after piece to exact lengths. Most guys take a death grip on a RAS and then wonder why the cuts are not quite perpendicular. Never occurs to them that they are putting a lot of sideways pressure on that arm. It is not a dangerous saw at all contrary to some opinions. Though it will scare the be-jeebers out of those who like to buy cheap rip blades and then cross cut.

Side benches/cabinets. After seeing lots of pictures of shops with junk piled all over the top of machinery it is apparent that more surface area is needed in a shop. Mine is layed out so that I can put tools I do not need right away just behind me on a countertop. That keeps the top of the bench from becoming so cluttered as I work.

The workbench. Built mine years ago and it is a beast. 3 1/2 thick maple top. I designed the base so I could put cabinets with drawers underneath. Works great, it holds all my little screws and weird hardware in a couple of shallow drawers. A larger drawer holds the sanding sheets pre cut. One drawer houses a whole bunch of small 4 inch F clamps that come in handy when needed.

It pays to really think through a shop. As you can see from an earlier post I used Sketchup (free) to design mine. It may look like a lot of work, but most of the models came out of the warehouse (modified a few to suit my needs). Nothing like being able to move things around with a mouse. And, if you are not familiar with it, learning it while you design your shop will pay big dividends later on when you want to design something and can actually see what it will look like before you cut one piece of wood.

One of my early shops was a 24 X 24. It had a huge single door. Hated that. If you are building and think you might someday sell think about framing in two doors but then sheathing over one of them to give you more wall space. BTW, other than the door, I liked that shop but it also had to store all the yard stuff, etc. Depending on what you are going to build that size might be perfect for you. When doing a layout remember that it is going to be a one man shop, not a factory. Carting pieces around a shop is not woodworking and is not fun. It may look really cool, but functionally? Maybe not so good.

Ok, tells us what you want to build so we can help. Otherwise we really do not know what to suggest beyond generalities!

[Don Bunce]

Several people have mentioned wooden floors. Your feet may like it, but your power tools won't. The floor will act like a giant soundboard, and make all kinds of racket when you run the machines.

[Brian Henderson]

As someone mentioned putting their compressor and DC outside, I did exactly that, I had no good place to put them inside the shop but there was a spot outside that was perfect. I poured a concrete pad, bolted both to the floor and built a shed around them and soundproofed the whole thing. It's really pretty quiet, you have to concentrate to hear anything running and it keeps it out of the way. An 80-gallon compressor takes up a ton of space and I made sure there was enough room for expansion out there if I needed to change things up.