Combination Square Recommendation?

[Marty Tippin]

I'm looking for a good (but not break-the-bank good) combination square - previously have used the cheap stuff from the Big Box ("Johnson" brand, maybe?) and found it to be essentially worthless and not square at all. Lots of variety on Amazon, but prices seem to be either in the $10-20 range or over $100 for the Starrett.

Can anyone recommend a good-quality, accurate and affordable combination square?

[Howard Acheson]

Here is some info that may help.

No matter how much you spend for a device, you still don't know if it is square. I ran a large tool and die shop and we purchased a number of Brown & Sharp and Starrett devices and some of them were not "square". We had "standards" that our quality department periodically had validated by an outside service that we then used to verify the worker's tools.

One day, one of our designers brought in two plastic drawing triangles he had purchased at a local art supply store. He had them compared to our standards and they were as accurate as the tools could measure. The triangle cost a couple of dollars each. They would certainly serve very well as the "standard" in any woodworking shop to validate and/or adjust other devices.

An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Using one of the plastic squares, do the same thing using your other tools. Any that mismatch, means that the tool is not square. You can also take the plastic square with you whenever you go to purchase another tool. Keep your "standard" somewhere where it doesn't get banged up.

Finally, remember that the wood you are using will expand and contract a couple of thousands from one day to the other. Does't pay to get too uptight.

While we are at it, I also only purchase the cheapest of adjustable squares. I square them with a drafting triangle and an auger file until they are square across 10". And I own a Bridge City square that isn't that accurate. Stainless steel machinist's squares are only square until you drop them. I have had several over the years and each has found a away to drop to the floor.

The key is to NEVER use your best square on for day to day measuring. Use it only as a reference tool to verify your other day to day tools.

In a comparison test reported in Fine Woodworking Magazine a couple of years ago, the Stanley 46-123 square was awarded the best value. It's much less expensive than a Starrett and just as accurate.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Marty
I like my 3 Starrett's, but they are almost 30 years old now. I also have two Bridge City squares (gifts) , but they do not stay square. Sent back twice, ok for a couple of year then out of square again, could be me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Marty
I like my 3 Starrett's, but they are almost 30 years old now.

Perfect example of "Cry Once". 30 years and counting on high-quality tools.

My Starrett 12"combo and 4" double-square are 2 of the most-used tools I own.

[glenn bradley]

I actually prefer the feel of my PEC to my Starett and it was a third the price. I believe Lee Valley, Woodcraft and others have their house brand combo and double squares made by PEC. Here's an example. (http://www.amazon.com/PEC-Piece-Combination-Square-Set/dp/B0002FTRIY)

[Marty Tippin]

I was just looking at the PEC squares on Amazon, all have very high ratings and are made in USA, which is a definite plus.

Not sure I really need the Starrett quality, but maybe I'll ask Santa...

[DOUG ANGEL]

Quick check is to draw a vertical line on a known straight surface, then flip square over, does the square line up to line? If yes, square is accurate, if no, well you know.......

[Lonnie Gallaher]

You might take a look at this site for surplus tools. http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/ProductsEngineering/7131-4R.html

12 inch combination square for $24.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I was just looking at the PEC squares on Amazon, all have very high ratings and are made in USA, which is a definite plus.

Not sure I really need the Starrett quality, but maybe I'll ask Santa.The PEC is $59. That's not all that much less than a Starrett.
There's a ton of sales coming up next week also where you might luck into a %20 or 30% off sale.
I got my Starrett at Hartville Hardware during a 20% off sale.
It's one of my luxuries in life I figured I owe myself.

[Lee Schierer]

Look for TACRO, Staedtler or HELIX drafting triangles. They are very accurate and usually pretty economical to purchase.

[Tom M King]

For anything other than the high-end machinists models, it's a good idea to put your hands on any of the others before you buy one. I don't like to carry one of the Starretts around in my tool belt. For that, I ended up finding a good Craftsman with a stainless steel blade. There were six or seven hanging on the peg in the store. I found one that I liked, and it's been in my toolbelt for, I'm sure, over ten years, and still works just fine. Most of the others wouldn't lock, or wouldn't lock easily.

[Jon Nuckles]

Best price for new Starretts I've found is at Zoro Tools during one of their frequent promotions.

[Earl McLain]

I've got 18" and 24" PEC blades, both seemingly very straight. The resolution of the scales is incredibly sharp and very easy to read. My 2 Starrett 12" blades are not nearly as easy to read, but they are probably 30 or 40 years old--so it's not their fault, i could read a lot better then too!!
earl

[roger wiegand]

My Starrett cost ~$5 at a tag sale, as I recall. It was old when I got it and I've put another 30 years on it, but it still works perfectly. I about broke the bank though when I bought an extra 24" blade for it, but made up for that when I found the protractor head in the box of "free" leftover junk at a church rummage sale. ;-)

[Peter Quinn]

For me it comes down to the mechanical part of the square more than hyper accuracy. I use mine as a depth guage a lot, so it has to move quick and stay put. I've tried the $30 Chinese ones at work.....excercise in frustration. Hard to put the ruller on when switching to angle head or center finder, doesn't alwAys stay put, thumb screw locks up and becomes hard to turn, hard to read. No thanks. I have a 6" version from woodcraft, is that a pec? I should have bought a starret here too, was trying to squeeze more value out of a gift card.....soon I'm going to retire that one and get a starret. The thumb screw is hard to tighten and even harder to loosen, and the ruler has moved at critical times leaving me in trouble. Not worth it. For machinist squares I'm more than comfortable with groz, or plastic triangles, or anything that stays square enough for wood tolerances. But if it moves, for me it has to move well and stay put. So try tightening one, take off the bar and reverse it, play with the adjustments. They may all be accurate enough for wood but the devil is in the details.

[Peter Quinn]

My Starrett cost ~$5 at a tag sale, as I recall. It was old when I got it and I've put another 30 years on it, but it still works perfectly. I about broke the bank though when I bought an extra 24" blade for it, but made up for that when I found the protractor head in the box of "free" leftover junk at a church rummage sale. ;-)

I bought the main square for market price, bought a center finder and protractor in basically new condition for $7 at flea market, bought 2' and 3' blades for $12/ea at a swap meet, factory seconds, minor defects in the 64's scale that I can't even see but were circled in red grease pencil. Wish I knew a regular source for the factory rejects.....sure better than full price.

[Tom M King]

There are two or three sellers on ebay that sell the seconds. I just bought one a few weeks ago, and all the scales are fully readable. I had bought a 4" with a beat up blade cheap, just to get the head, and bought one of the seconds for a good blade.

[Peter Kelly]

You might take a look at this site for surplus tools. http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/ProductsEngineering/7131-4R.html

12 inch combination square for $24.Agreed. Have bought several "factory second" PEC tools from Harry Epstein and they're great.

[Marty Tippin]

One thing the Starrett fans haven't addressed is whether you have the cast iron or steel head on your combination square? The price difference between those two is significant.


In any case, after weighing the pros and cons, I ordered a 12" PEC combination square and a 6" PEC double square from Amazon today, will have them on Wednesday and will report back my initial impressions. I already have a nice set of machinist squares that I can use to check out the accuracy of these when they arrive. And I can always return them for a Starrett if they don't meet my expectations.

[Jack Jackson]

http://www.zoro.com/i/G1550857/?category=9151

I've got this Starrett (and that's probably the cheapest you'll find it and they ship free)... easy to read, smooth adjustment and it's square. $75 ain't too bad. I also have a smaller Mitutoyo that I got used that's really nice. Depends on if you want a heavy feeling quality tool or want to fiddle with something cheaper to make it work. You won't be disappointed if you get the Starrett.

[Larry Edgerton]

Here is some info that may help.

.
An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Using one of the plastic squares, do the same thing using your other tools. Any that mismatch, means that the tool is not square. You can also take the plastic square with you whenever you go to purchase another tool. Keep your "standard" somewhere where it doesn't get banged up.

.
.


Another method is if you have a known straight edge you can simply draw one line, flip the square over and if true the square should be on the same line.

Larry

[Curt Harms]

Another method is if you have a known straight edge you can simply draw one line, flip the square over and if true the square should be on the same line.

Larry

Too simple:). Another check is to draw two parallel lines about 1/8" apart, flipping the square. I find my eye is pretty sensitive to lines that are not exactly parallel. That method helps with "am I covering up part of the line with the square's blade?"

[Jim Matthews]

Agreed. Have bought several "factory second" PEC tools from Harry Epstein and they're great.

+1 on Harry Epstein.
Check back, weekly or better still - call.

They have living sales staff.

[Larry Edgerton]

Another method is if you have a known straight edge you can simply draw one line, flip the square over and if true the square should be on the same line.

Larry

This is the method that I use to adjust framing squares. By gently tapping on either the inside corner or outside corner as needed the square can be adjusted. Framing squares are almost never perfect, and they never stay that way as they receive rough service.

Larry

[lowell holmes]

+1 for the Starrett.

[HANK METZ]

Whatever you get, if it comes with a scriber stored in the head, use it as a map tack or olive stick, it's a useless appointment for precision markups. Rudy Kouhoup has a video showing how to do highly precise layouts with the more common ways and means, your end result is really only as good as your ability to accurately record it on the work. You don't have to be a metalhead to learn a lot from him that will give you better accuracy in your shop projects, especially when making jigs and fixtures.

https://smartflix.com/store/video/138/Using-Layout-Tools

[Matt Meiser]

+1 on Harry Epstein.
Check back, weekly or better still - call.

They have living sales staff.

+3. I bought a few of these--nice squares.

[Peter Kelly]

Request "Box Art" when ordering from Epstein. I've received some pretty hilarious illustrations on their packaging.

http://store.harryepstein.com/dailydispatch/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/patrioticcat.jpg

http://store.harryepstein.com/dailydispatch/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/beerdetail.jpg

[Marty Tippin]

Just figured out that Harry Epstein Co. is right here in Kansas City - think I'll go visit them in person!

[Brett Luna]

Last year...after years of using bad to so-so combination squares...I finally girded my loins and plonked down for a Starrett 3-head setup. Although I see here that I could have saved on a another quite serviceable brand, I do not regret it. Not for a minute.

[Charles Wiggins]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETUNEU/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETWQ4U/

I have not had a chance to use them a whole lot since I got them, but the tests I did when I first got them showed them to be straight and true 90º.

[Marty Tippin]

I received the PEC combination square and double square from Amazon yesterday and I'm nothing less than totally impressed. These things are orders of magnitude better quality than the crud I previously used from the big box, square as can be and very finely crafted. Plus made in the USA...

Might have been able to save a few bucks buying blemished from Harry Epstein, but I'm perfectly happy with what I got.

[Larry Edgerton]

I ordered 3 three head combinations from Epstien. They will be Christmas gifts.

Larry

[Will Boulware]

Thanks, guys. Just blew the remainder of my allowance for the month. 3 head combination square on the way. :D

[Kent A Bathurst]

I ordered 3 three head combinations from Epstien. They will be Christmas gifts.

Larry

Awwww.........jeeeeez..........you shouldn't have, Larry.

Hope you like the BORG Stanley knock-off block plane I got for you.