Replacing a Teak Deck

[Julie Moriarty]

Yesterday we saw a boat I just fell in love with - an Oyster 485. I could live the rest of my days on this boat and be perfectly happy. My SO isn't quite so on board with that idea as I am but I'm working on it. :rolleyes: The boat is rock solid. Below decks it is practically perfect and the boat is equipped to go anywhere in the world. On top it isn't as pretty but it's structurally sound, from bow to stern and the top of the mast to the keel.

But the teak decks are in their last days and that's probably why this boat hasn't sold. The broker thought so. Thankfully, the teak isn't screwed to the deck. That's a deal breaker for me. The broker said Oyster used a laminate teak product. Some of the deck seemed to indicate this but I really didn't get a chance to confirm that. I didn't want to chance breaking away any of the wood that looked delaminated to find out if I was right.

I think most of you guys know my abilities. I'm pretty sure I have all the tools to do the work. The big questions are what exactly is involved in replacing a teak deck?
- Can you do it in small sections? Even if it took a year, I'd be fine with that.
- Do you need a controlled environment?
- Can you buy stock teak and mill it or do you need some laminate product for proper adherence?
- When removing the old decking, are certain methods and/or tools necessary so as not to damage the deck?

There's lots of other questions I have but for now I just wanted some feedback on what one could expect attempting a project like this. Any help is appreciated. Thanks...

[Mel Fulks]

Not a boat guy. But I just looked up canvas decks and they are still used. Maybe the existing decking could be covered with it and the proper coating. Makes a very durable surface , tomorow I will be covering a window sill on my house that is made of fir with the heart side up instead of down and will not hold paint.

[Sam Murdoch]

Too many choices Julie. Generally - not a big deal and not so time consuming and just like any "outdoor" work you want to optimize with the weather. Hard to tell from photos what "your" boat actually has for a deck but the Oyster 485s I'm looking at appear to have teak plank. Do the google for "laying a teak deck" for lots of info. Here is only one conversation - http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wooden-boat-building-restoration/teak-deck-installation-43200.html

[Julie Moriarty]

From what I could see, I was thinking the deck was planking too, and not some special laminate that Oyster designed for their boats. What I do know is many sailors abhor teak decks because of costs and maintenance but practically everyone of them would say they are beautiful. This particular 485 is about $70K less than anything else on the market, which is probably what it would cost if you had a yard replace the teak decks. Where it's priced now is the max I set for a boat that I'd live aboard so the rest of them are out of my reach. I'll see if I can find an Oyster group and see if anyone there knows. But most Oyster owners can pay for someone else to do the upkeep on their boat.

We just got back from seeing a 2002 Sabre 452 my SO wanted to see. It was perfect. It looked brand new. There was nothing for me to do. I haven't earned that luxury. :o Tuesday I head back to Chicago and into the deep freeze. Maybe I'll feel different after a good dose of that.

[Julie Moriarty]

If you ever want to run from buying a boat with a teak deck, go to a sailing forum and ask them if you should buy a boat with teak decks. And then tell them you'll be keeping it in the tropics. :eek:

I have to ignore the Sirens. Quick! Tie me to the mast!

[Jamie Buxton]

In my neck of the woods, teak costs about $35 per board foot. :eek:

[John Coloccia]

Now Julie, just how in blazes are you going to build guitars living on that cute little boat?

[Tim Janssen]

Why don't you contact Oyster Yachts. They should be able to tell you about the construction details. Do you have the particulars of the boat? year of manufactur, serial number, etc.
They should be able to help you.
Regards,

Tim

.
,

[Julie Moriarty]

Now Julie, just how in blazes are you going to build guitars living on that cute little boat?
I won't, but I may find time to learn how to play what I've made. :D


Why don't you contact Oyster Yachts. They should be able to tell you about the construction details. Do you have the particulars of the boat? year of manufactur, serial number, etc.
They should be able to help you.
All I can find is a forum for Oyster owners. If you don't already own an Oyster, you're out. Most Oyster owners don't worry about things as trivial as money. And they certainly don't do the work themselves! Heaven forbid! :)

[Graham Wintersgill]

Julie

customerservice@oysteryachts.com

Regards

[Julie Moriarty]

Thanks Graham. I emailed them and am waiting for a reply.

On the sailing forum, someone posted this:

"I had a surveyor look at this Oyster and it isn't just the teak decks that need work. The whole boat has been completely neglected for years and it would cost at least us$150k to get her back in reasonable condition. Unless you fancy spending the next 18 months being a project manager, I would suggest passing on this one."

I'm trying to get the specifics but it does give me cause for concern. Though I did spent 8 years of my career as a construction project manager and I do have a lot of time on my hands now. Hmmmmm..... :rolleyes:

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind In The Willows

[george wilson]

Julie,have you moved to Florida yet?

You know that a boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into?:)

[Julie Moriarty]

Still in Chicago, George. After talking to realtors, both here and in West Palm Beach, they all agreed making the move now would mean selling low and buying high. It's the low season here and the high season there. So we're waiting to put the house on the market until late February. The realtor here said right after Super Bowl there's a big spike in home buyers.

And yes I know the saying about boats. If you're a sailor, it's, "Sailing is standing under a cold shower tearing up $100 bills." If we actually decided to buy a boat instead of a house, my heirs would have to resign themselves to the fact there wouldn't be much left for them to split up after I'm gone. You know, "I'm spending my kid's inheritance." :rolleyes:

But the research I've done on replacing a teak deck has been interesting and informative. This is a video of replacing a teak deck on a Swan 371. The boat was probably built in the late 70's. Back then, Swan was the Rolls Royce of sailboats.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFdEMhdB0U

[Julie Moriarty]

When I ran across this video, I had to laugh at the insanity of one person taking on the project of removing a teak deck from any but the smallest of boats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As9Kb2vvoy0

[Julie Moriarty]

One other thing I found was the approximate cost of replacing the deck on the boat we were considering. Included in the price was taking down the mast, removing all the deck hardware (the boat is 18 years old and that can be a task), removing the old deck, prepping the fiberglass to receive the new deck, creating templates for the new deck, building the deck at the factory, packing and shipping the finished product to the boatyard, installing the new deck and replacing the mast and hardware. All this in an enclosed building, also included in the estimate. Cost? Around $80K.

Out of curiosity, I also priced out just making the templates, the wood and pre-fabbing the decking. That price was around $30K. Then you'd have to throw in epoxy adhesive, seam caulk to finish off the deck package. Either way, not cheap. But the houses we were looking at in Florida could easily suck up just as much fixing them up. So it's either the Money Pit or the Hole in the Water. I'd rather work on a boat any day.

[Mel Fulks]

The QUEEN gave up her boat because of cost.

[Tom M King]

I like wood, and I like sailboats. One of the things I do for a living is work wood. I used to have a sailboat business, and raced for money on the Prosail circuit in the 1980s. I can sail anything that floats, and some things that don't. Used to help deliver big boats up and down the East coast. I know a lot of people who own sailboats because they like to work on them. I like to sail them. I never want to mix wood, and sailboats, unless I'm sailing someone else's.

[Jim Matthews]

http://iyrs.edu/

There's an entire Marina in nearby Portsmouth, RI with nice sailboats in various stages of reclamation.

Many of them were slowly rebuilt, as their owners could afford repairs.
All too many of them are now in Estate liquidation after those owners passed on.

http://www.byy.com/RIMarinas/Portsmouth/Welcome.aspx

None of us will get more time.
Spend the money,
sail while you can.

[Mel Fulks]

Some captains impress people on their sailboats by impressing people on their sailboats. Like in the War of 1812. Once when I started a new job the foreman told me the boss had a sailboat and advised me to turn down any invitation to go
sailing. Said he had accepted once and spent a miserable day pushing stuff and pulling on ropes.

[Julie Moriarty]

None of us will get more time.
Spend the money,
sail while you can.

That's been working its way to the forefront of my thoughts more and more, Jim. My first exposure to sailing was in 1970. I was 19. It was a 1936 Alden 44 and I was fascinated. Family history says we were sea traders living on Dingle Bay in Ireland. My dad had that look in his eye whenever on his boat, the one that told you he was off somewhere sailing to a dream location. That's been my dream for a very long time and time is running out. My SO has been from all in to serious doubts and back again. That feeling of the ticking clock is making me wonder if I just have to do it and hope for the best. I know one thing, being retired in Chicago isn't a good plan for longevity or sanity.


Once when I started a new job the foreman told me the boss had a sailboat and advised me to turn down any invitation to go sailing. Said he had accepted once and spent a miserable day pushing stuff and pulling on ropes.

Oh, that guy was a sissy! :rolleyes: Sailing is a blast! But if the owner is Captain Bligh...

[Alan Rutherford]

I don't know your capabilities and don't know the Oyster 485, but in a previous life I spent many months and a few thousand miles on a Swan 441 with a teak deck and I've spent a whole lotta time around boats, boatyards and boat owners. I agree about sailing while you can. I'd caution you to not lose sight of the difference between having a boat and sailing it. (I'm older than you are - I can talk that way). IOW, if you can happily spend many months rebuilding the deck of this boat, perhaps while living on it under cover, then go for it. But if this is the dues you have to pay to get a boat you could not otherwise afford and if your sailing experience is not on the same level as your construction and woodworking experience - I'd be very cautious. Boat-repair projects NEVER turn out to be a smaller job than you expected, only the reverse.

I believe all the teak decks I remember were screwed and plugged. If any were laminated - I was not aware of it. Solid wood with seams caulked gives some room for dimensional changes but it would have to be screwed down. That not an impossible DIY project and it could be done that way regardless of what the original was but you need to be careful of things like letting water into the core of the deck. I think you could do it with 1/2 inch or less of thickness.

And that's a lot of boat. Palatial at the dock perhaps, but if you want to be sailing - 2 people can sail happily in a lot less boat than that. Think displacement - not length. That's probably twice as much boat as some just a few feet shorter. Everything will have to be stronger and work harder, including the crew. But it's a beautiful boat. I'd fall in love with it, too.

[Julie Moriarty]

Hi Alan,

Thank you for the input. I agree with everything you said. I have yet to set foot on a Swan but it was my dream boat for a very long time, going all the way back to the mid 70's. :)

I have about 8,000 miles sailing under my belt, mostly cruising but some racing, and what seemed like countless hours working on my dad's boat. Though I was much younger then. Out of six kids, I was the only one interested is sailing, but there was a price to pay. From sanding the entire bottom of a 45' sailboat to getting the boat back to working order after a boatyard caused it to sink in the Chicago River, I got a pretty good idea of the kind of work that goes into owning a boat.

Initially I wanted something in the 40' range but my SO's requirements are different than mine, so we've been looking at 45'-50'. The Oyster 485 is the only boat so far that both of us seem to agree on. There are a few on the market right now and all but one are in our price range. What I like about the one with the bad decks is it has a 6'2" draft and 64' bridge clearance, making it ICW friendly and better for the Bahamas the 7' draft the others have.

As for taking on such a major project, if things work out as expected, my SO will continue to work for at least the next two years. During that time the boat will have a lot of dock time and I'll have a lot of idle time. While I know there's always work to be done on a boat, it won't take two years to get the boat cruise ready. And if I really did take on the deck replacement (still undecided) I could also build some sweat equity. Then, when my sailing days have ended, the depreciation hit wan't be so hard to swallow.

Something in me says this dream will never happen. My sailing experience includes the Great Lakes, Narragansett Bay, the Bahamas and the Florida Keys. My SO's sailing experience starts and ends on a Sunfish on a small lake in Missouri. I think that's why the boat has to be bigger and making the decision is harder. We'll probably end up buying a house and our sailboat will be a Sunfish. :rolleyes:

[Alan Rutherford]

I hope your dream works out whether in this form or not. Maybe a little less house and a little more boat than a Sunfish.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I am very familiar wight the Oyster 485 and they are sweet boats. Have you looked into a product called "Tek Deck" which is a synthetic teak? I have seen it and it looks pretty good. It is supposed to be very UV friendly. It also has a nice feel to it with bare feet.

The place to get a teak deck done cheap is in Trinidad. You up for a cruise through the Caribbean? If so, stop and say hello on the way down.

[Julie Moriarty]

I hope your dream works out whether in this form or not. Maybe a little less house and a little more boat than a Sunfish.

Thanks Alan. A compromise is the best solution, no doubt, but finding all the right "parts" to fit into the budget puzzle has been a bit more challenging. Owning a boat and a house is like having three residences, the boat, the house and the slip.


I am very familiar with the Oyster 485 and they are sweet boats. Have you looked into a product called "Tek Deck" which is a synthetic teak? I have seen it and it looks pretty good. It is supposed to be very UV friendly. It also has a nice feel to it with bare feet.

The place to get a teak deck done cheap is in Trinidad. You up for a cruise through the Caribbean? If so, stop and say hello on the way down.

When we first saw the boat, the broker suggested synthetic decking. She said she felt that would actually increase the value of the boat because you'd have the look but not the cost of maintenance and the eventual replacement. I looked into many products and the pictures look great but what I'm hearing is the technology isn't there yet. Every first hand account I've read includes the material buckling in the heat. And the general consensus about value is the opposite of the broker. I've read many times things like this, "It's an Oyster. They don't do cheap." And they are right. Oyster is one of the few boat builders that doesn't cut corners, even in today's market. So synthetic on the Oyster is out but I won't worry about it until we are actually ready to purchase a boat.

I like the Trinidad idea. :) I've never been to Spain. From what I'm hearing, you can cut the cost of replacement to a fraction of what it is here if you can make it to southeast Asia. Might take a year to get there but sightseeing along the way would be fun. :rolleyes: When we cast off, I'll get your address and slip into port for a bit. :D

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

We just got back from seeing a 2002 Sabre 452 my SO wanted to see. It was perfect. It looked brand new. There was nothing for me to do. I haven't earned that luxury. :o I'm sure that if you have been around boats you know there is never "nothing to do"! Just go out for a quick sail, then head in and fix the head, tighten a shroud or two, diagnose why the bilge pump is not working on automatic, figure out what that topside leak by the nav station is all about, re-seat the bow pulpit, etc. etc...then when that's all done, take another sail and start over. Oh, and then there's the diesel... :-)