Kikuhiromaru Chisels

[ken hatch]

Today's mail had my Kikuhiromaru chisels. Of course I haven't had time to prep "em but they sure are are pretty. I went with White Oak handles and the hand hammered finish....a little bing never hurts.

Here are a couple of them, front and back:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/kikuhiromaruChisels_zpsebb8f565.jpg

[ken hatch]

I forgot to add made with #1 White Steel.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I am proud to be the first to say Those are suh-weet!

[ken hatch]

I am proud to be the first to say Those are suh-weet!


Too many projects in the short rows to make ready the set for a couple of weeks but there should be time over T-day to do the deed.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice Ken! I'd be too tempted to use those on said projects.

[ken hatch]

Brian,

I expect you are correct....I may start on the 12mm and work in both directions so as to get 'em in hand sooner.

[Mike Holbrook]

Nicccce!

I bought Ouchi chisels made from White Oak too. I like the white oak better than the red oak on my Koyamaichis. The white oak seems tougher/denser, with less tendency to split or lose small pieces. So far I am liking the variant that Stuart apparently talked them into making "Yama-ari-nomi" similar to the Kaku-uchi-nomi.

Somehow I got a metal devise for setting the rings with my chisel order. I just soaked the ends in water a short while, put the ring and cap on each chisel and rapped on them until I got a little wood extending out over the rings. The white oak I have was definitely harder to spread than the red.

[ken hatch]

I've three sets of Japanese chisels. The first set I got from Japan Woodworker several years ago, IIRC they were house brand White Steel chisels and I paid around $40 USD for them. I didn't know anything about Japanese chisels and knowing what I know now I paid way too much. They are not very good chisels. The second set I got from Stu, they are also #2 White Steel chisels made by Koyamaichi for under $50 USD a chisel. The third set I just received.

Today I examined the three side by side (all 12mm), there is not a lot of difference between the Koyamaichi and the Kikuhiromaru, a little difference in the grind of the back hollow and maybe a small difference in the iron/steel thickness but nothing to make one better than the other. The Japan Woodworker chisel when compared to either of the other chisels is pretty crude. I didn't put the Kikuhiromaru chisels to wood because I haven't set them up.

Because I haven't sharpened the new chisels there is no side by side on them but I did do a fresh sharpen on the other two and there was a huge difference. From a visual inspection both were sharpened about as well as I can sharpen. I tried both on some Maple end grain (I know Japanese chisels are better on soft woods) and it was night and day. The Koyamaichi cut smoothly with little effort, left a beautiful surface and the shaving came off solid. You couldn't ask for better. The Japan Woodworker chisel was hard to push, left a rougher surface and the shaving was also rough. There was enough difference even if blindfolded I could have picked the Koyamaichi out. The sad part, I paid the same or more for the Japan Woodworker chisel than for the Koyamaichi.

[Stewie Simpson]

I am green with envy Ken. They are superb chisels.

Stewie;

[Brian Holcombe]

I think the white oak is actually wood of a branch where the pith runs through the center of the handle. I ordered white oak on my Koyamaichi's for that reason.

[Rick Fisher]

Those are really nice.. I like the white oak handles as well ...

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm very glad we have access to Stu and the information here for that reason, I made the same mistake with a set of Bonsai pruners through a common American source only to find out that much higher quality pruners could be had for the same price from a Japanese source, which I then also purchased.

Thanks for the reviews Ken.

[ken hatch]

Brian,

I couldn't resist, I'm off to work in a minute or two but I had to set the hoop and sharpen the 12mm. Sharpened it is beautiful steel, and I also couldn't resit trying it on some end grain. It made a fine cut, with low effort, a smooth face and the shaving was solid. I couldn't ask for more.

BTW, most of the time I do not "test" the iron after sharpening....Look at it, feel it, and put it away to use. If it looks sharp and feels sharp it will be sharp.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice, sounds like they will serve you well!

[ken hatch]

Nicccce!

I bought Ouchi chisels made from White Oak too. I like the white oak better than the red oak on my Koyamaichis. The white oak seems tougher/denser, with less tendency to split or lose small pieces. So far I am liking the variant that Stuart apparently talked them into making "Yama-ari-nomi" similar to the Kaku-uchi-nomi.

Somehow I got a metal devise for setting the rings with my chisel order. I just soaked the ends in water a short while, put the ring and cap on each chisel and rapped on them until I got a little wood extending out over the rings. The white oak I have was definitely harder to spread than the red.

Mike,

Interesting, This time I wacked with a hammer around the end of the handle several times to compress the fibers before re-installing the hoop (I can't remember how I did it with the last Red Oak handles) and soaked for 15 or so minutes before mushrooming the end. My thoughts were "this White Oak sure is easier to mushroom than the Red Oak". Could be because I know more about what I'm doing now or most likely old age and forgetfulness. Anyway the end "thingy" sounds interesting for setting the hoops. I'm about half way through cleaning off the lacquer and setting hoops and have a couple sharp. I expect as soon as I finish this first cup of I'll put metal to wood for the first time paring back some knife lines in prep for the saw.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Ken,

Bumping this thread, wondering how you are liking these chisels after some time on them.

Cheers,
Brian

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Bumping this thread, wondering how you are liking these chisels after some time on them.

Cheers,
Brian

Brian,

Wonderful chisels, sharpen easily, and hold a very fine edge. If there is a downside and I don't think of it as such, they are not ready out of the box. In addition to setting the hoop the first sharpening will take a little extra time to get the back and the bevel trued. I would guess that is the case with most hand made chisels.

Of course as with higher end Japanese chisels, very comfortable in hand and easy on the eye.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Ken! Looking to pick up a few, I've been interested in trying white steel #1 by a good maker and he seems about the only one without a 3 year wait time.

[ian maybury]

They look very nicely made Ken - a definite step up in that regard. Sounds like they work too.

I have white steel Matsumura chisels bought in Europe which turned out to be a bit of a mess from the point of view of back flattening - all were significantly curved/bowed away from the back (lifted by about 0.3mm both sides of centre which is a lot), and needed a lot of work. I didn't know any better.

The recent set of Koyamaichi long handle paring chisels from Stuart haven't been significantly tested in use yet, but were chalk and cheese so far as the back flatness and precision of forging was concerned. I haven't tested them side by side for steel quality.

I've a feeling that part of the problem is that there's at least one middleman taking a large cut in the case of the chisels making it to the West via the larger sellers.......

[Brian Holcombe]

I dont begrudge them, they're offering me something that would take an education in itself to acquire without them, and likely some very expensive trips to Japan. Compared to western chisels they're expensive (at the highest levels) but considering the amount of effort involved in making them I cant imagine the markup is much worse than western chisels.

Consider if they're $200 each, which is on the extreme high side, then the maker has about 1-2 hours time involved in it. That's forge welding on through heat treating and finishing, frankly I'm surprised they are not a lot more expensive.

I really doubt that any of them are getting rich off of this anyways, the whole lot seem like a pretty good crowd more devoted to love of tools than money.

[David Wong]

Ken,
The black hollow on your Kikuhiromaru's is very nice. Is that a standard finish, or did you need to special order that?
David

[ian maybury]

I tend to agree Brian, but it'd be nice if the smith got the fat end of what's going. Presuming they genuinely are hand forged there's no way indeed that they get rich. Chances are it's a tradition that will fade out.....

[Brian Holcombe]

I hope not, but I expect it will continue to be more and more specialized. Sort of like the American makers, aside from the majors it is an assortment of small makers who specialize.

[ian maybury]

That's the way i think would be best too Brian. When the big box store type distributors or too many middle men get involved they run suppliers into the ground. Worst of all they pursue a policy of mass market appeal/dumbing down by by racing to the bottom in terms of price and quality - and have an insatiable hunger for ever more profit.

Far better that high expertise and low overhead small guys like Stuart get in position to supply a specialist margin like ours. They take their bit, the maker gets paid a decent whack and we get top product at fairly reasonable prices.

Have to say i think the ethos around these traditional crafts in Japan and elsewhere is often wonderful - regardless of the above it just couldn't happen without it...

[ken hatch]

Ken,
The black hollow on your Kikuhiromaru's is very nice. Is that a standard finish, or did you need to special order that?
David

David,

That is the standard finish.

ken

[ken hatch]

I dont begrudge them, they're offering me something that would take an education in itself to acquire without them, and likely some very expensive trips to Japan. Compared to western chisels they're expensive (at the highest levels) but considering the amount of effort involved in making them I cant imagine the markup is much worse than western chisels.

Consider if they're $200 each, which is on the extreme high side, then the maker has about 1-2 hours time involved in it. That's forge welding on through heat treating and finishing, frankly I'm surprised they are not a lot more expensive.

I really doubt that any of them are getting rich off of this anyways, the whole lot seem like a pretty good crowd more devoted to love of tools than money.

Brian,

With the skill and time to make a single chisel, like you, I believe they are a bargain.

ken

[Christopher Charles]

343344

A warning (and gloat). Read no more posts from Ken or Brian, else this shall happen to you.

white no 2 red oak very good price. Just getting them set up...

[Brian Holcombe]

Very nice!