Super Dust Deputy

[Jon Nuckles]

I have a 1.5 hp single stage (Delta) dust collector. I added a Wynn canister filter and a trash can separator. I have short runs and get decent dust collection with the system, but the filter clogs quickly and reduces suction dramatically. The filter is very tough to unclog without taking off the bag, reaching in from the bottom and moving the pleats. Neither compressed air nor an electric leaf blower directed at the filter do much to unclog it, nor does banging on the outside. Not only is the current process time-consuming, but it is a huge mess. The trash can separator fills much faster than the bag, but I suspect it is missing most of the finer particles and those are clogging the filter. I have two questions that I'd love to get advice about:



Will switching from a trash can lid separator to a super dust deputy make a big difference in how fast the pleated filter clogs?
If I get the super dust deputy, can I mount it on the current galvanized garbage can with Oneida's DIY lid plan, or will I need to buy a drum that is more leak-proof?


I may upgrade to a ClearVue or other true cyclone system in the future, but want to keep the costs down for now. Thanks for your advice!

[tim vadas]

I had the same setup (delta with Wynn filter and trash can separator), and i switched to the super dust deputy (the metal version). A lot more of the chips drop into the bucket with the dust deputy. I assume that the cyclone separator is more efficient at getting smaller particles to drop, and that fewer are getting into the wynn filter. I don't know for sure what's happening to the smaller particles that would clog the Wynn filter, but i know i get hardly any of the larger chips in the bag of the dust collector, whereas before it would fill a lot quicker even with the trash can separator. I find banging the Wynn filter helps well enough to clean it out.

As for your second question, i decided to buy the drum that onieda sells just because of the limited time i had available. I had to build a stand to hold the super dust deputy while i pull the drum off to empty it. you would need something similar even if you stick with the garbage can. I don't see why you can't build a leak proof top, as long as you have a gasket around the edges, a way to clamp it, and silicone sealing the dusty deputy to the top.

[david minnery]

I've had that exact set up for a couple years. My SDD is on an aluminum garbage can, big improvement over the trash can separator.

[Jon Nuckles]

Thank you both for the input. I will be buying the sdd shortly.

[Mark Carlson]

I have that setup as well. I bought the 35gal drum with the sdd. The only time chips get in the bag is when I let the drum overfill. My wynn doesnt clog and I dont clean it. I put a little window (bought from mcmaster) in the top of the drum so I can shine a light in to check the level. You can just barely make it out.

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[Jon Nuckles]

Great setup, Mark. I have been wondering if I could lift the delta enough to fit a sdd and bin on the stand. What did you use to raise it?

[Mark Carlson]

I bought some steel tubes from mcmaster.com where the ID was slighting greater than the OD of the delta tubing. I think the lengths were 3 feet. Of course I also flipped the motor part and put the wynn filter on the top. Its handy to be able to move it around a little when its time to empty the bin.

[Derek Stockley]

Will switching from a trash can lid separator to a super dust deputy make a big difference in how fast the pleated filter clogs?
If I get the super dust deputy, can I mount it on the current galvanized garbage can with Oneida's DIY lid plan, or will I need to buy a drum that is more leak-proof?



1) Yes, but maybe not as much as you would hope. I have a metal SDD, and it is definitely an improvement, but I expected more and will likely upgrade at some point. I use my SDD with all my machines, including my ROS, and a considerable amount of the fine dust does end up in the collection bin rather than the filter, BUT you have remember to keep enough air going through, especially if you use size reducers. When I use mine with a 2.5" hose on my ROS or other hand held tools, I keep the adjacent 4" blast gate open so the air speed in the pipes doesn't drop too low for the separation to work. Separation is pretty much perfect for the bulky chips and I was able to reclaim the space under the collector by cutting the plastic bag down to just 10-12". Any significant accumulation of dust in that bag pretty much indicates a leak so I keep an eye on that and fix it immediately if it happens.

2) I had mine on a plastic garbage can for a while, but I found it collapsed under suction. Small leaks in your collection bin can dramatically affect separation efficiency, so I decided to build a collection bin out of leftover 1/2" melamine to suit my space after failing to source a short round drum locally. I haven't experienced any adverse effects from switching to a square bin, and my bin is on casters, which is handy. The square bin holds a lot more dust than a round bin of the same width and height. I just don't like how hard it is to empty my current setup because I didn't leave enough clearance to easily detach the lid of the bin from the bottom. The lid is connected to the bin using gravity and little chest clasps, with 3/8" closed cell foam insulation forming the seal. The melamine sides and bottom are nailed rabbet joints sealed with a bead of silicone caulk.

Here are a couple of pictures of my setup. The wall mounting makes cleaning the filter with air difficult, but I accept that in the interest of reclaiming the space. I think I might try and build a flapper mechanism at some point. I currently need to clean my filter thoroughly once or twice a year. I take the canister off completely, set it on the driveway and vacuum out the pleats one by one with a crevice tool on the shop vac, which has been quite effective and doesn't require me to wait for it to dry. It's tedious and takes at least an hour though.

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[Phil Thien]

Will switching from a trash can lid separator to a super dust deputy make a big difference in how fast the pleated filter clogs?




I'll muddy the waters here a bit.

Our tools can be split into two categories: Those that generate huge amounts of wood flour, and those that do not. So put belt and drum sanders in the former category, and everything else in the latter.

If you make substantial use of flour-generating machines, you need a cloth bag filter, or to exhaust outside. Or you need a cyclone of such substantial size it probably won't fit in your shop and will be outrageously expensive.

If you don't use a sander much, I think you'll find a separator fitted with one of my baffles will separate pretty much as well as a small cyclone.

I think there are advantages to cyclones. Likely less resistance, don't have to make one yourself, a known quantity.

OTOH, someone sent me a link to DOE research indicating the use of quasi-Thien style separators for final separation (AFTER conventional cyclones). I've always said conventional cyclones will out-separate one of my designs and I'm not saying I've changed my mind. But my certainty or confidence in that belief has slowly been eroded as I've communicated with more and more users and done more reading.

[Jon Nuckles]

Wow! Thanks for all the excellent advice and suggestions. Lots of good food for thought.

[Jim Andrew]

I have an edge sander and a small widebelt sander, and I am having no trouble plugging my filter since I have been paying attention to the seals in my system. Would recommend you use furnace tape on all your pipe joints, where you do not have room for tape, use silicone caulk, and pay attention to your lid and seal to the top of your barrel, I use spring clamps to pinch my lid down, as it has no ring to lock it.

[Jon Nuckles]

Finally finished my dust collection modifications.

I ran into a few obstacles along the way, mostly as a result of buying the Super Dust Deputy at Woodcraft where they don't carry Oneida's special fittings. I bought and tried a variety of sheet metal, plastic, and rubber fittings before finding something that would fit well. If you buy a Super Dust Deputy, I highly recommend ordering the fittings from Oneida; I just didn't plan ahead and so needed to ad lib rather than wait for shipping.

So far, it is working better than I had hoped. Little to no dust is making it past the SDD, and suction is better than I've seen in a long time (because I cleaned the Wynn canister during the modification process). Many thanks for the advice and design ideas. My set up is an imitation of Mark Carlson's, though it isn't as pretty as his. One thing I really like is that the footprint is no bigger than the dust collector alone, and is smaller than what I had with the garbage can separator. I took the wheels off because I was concerned about it being tippy, but it is still somewhat portable by dragging on my wood floor.

I don't have any flex between the SDD and the garbage can lid, so I had to come up with a method to lift the can to the lid. I made a base with 4 channels on the corners to guide wedges that lift the can. It was quickly cobbled together from 2x4s and cheap plywood, but it does the job well.
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[Ned Everitt]

I am glad you got it all together and are pleased with the results. I too am using the metal trash can, but I cut a hole in the top of the lid and mounted the sdd to that. I like the idea of using the wood spacers under the can. I am planning to connect the sdd to my blower with flex, so I may just leave the can on the floor. But I do need to figure out a way to seal and secure the lid to the can. I put some weatherstipping that i had laying around onto the lid, but it peeled back overnight. I will try again with fresh, and try not to tension it to much when putting it on.

[Jon Nuckles]

I made my lid from mdf and created a 1/2" channel where it meets the can, which I filled with the weatherstripping. It is working well so far, though lining up the lid and can is a little fussy without a rim on the lid. I may screw on a few registration blocks on the bottom of the lid to make it easier. I used my lathe to turn the lid and create the channel, but it would be at least as easy with a router and shopmade circle cutting jig.

[Phil Thien]

For the best results, I suggest sealing the seams on those garbage cans with a little caulk.

I've run into some cans that are quite tight but others that have enough leakage that they interfere with separation.

The solution has been to throw down a small bead of silicone around the bottom, and another along the side. Just a very tiny bead, it doesn't make much. I then push the silicone into the seam a bit with my finger (I wear a disposable glove).

Over at my forum there have been a few guys building on top of steel cans that found performing this step improved separation quite a bit.

[John Leake]

I have a Delta "dust collector" model 50-179 with a 3/4hp motor and centrifugal fan mounted on a fiberglass or heavy plastic lid which passes the "fine" dust into a fabric bag. The base is a large fiber barrel, I think 55 gallons (much more than 35). I have looked at the Super Dust Deputy and the optional HEPA filter as recommended by Oneida. However the mounting assembly for the HEPA filter from Oneida seems to assume a very different style of collector than I have. I would really like to buy a 3hp or more cylcone like the Oneida V3000, but that is more than finances permit.

Any suggestions how to connect a HEPA filter like the Oneida optional part for the Super Dust Deputy or a Wynn cartridge up to the one I have? The barrel I have now I would intend to make into the cyclone drop bin, and somehow affix the fan and motor above the Super Dust Deputy.

Thanks in advance. John

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

Look into building a Thien style separator, a lot less money and an easy build. Very efficient.

[Jon Nuckles]

John Leake,

You may want to start a new thread to get more eyes on your question, as this one has been up for a while. I also had to google your dust collector model to see what it looked like. I'd post a picture with the question if I were you.

The people at Wynn are helpful and may have some good information on a filter for your collector. It looks like a 4" port running to your bag, but if you measure it and tell them what you have, I bet they can set you up. At worst, you could make a plywood "donut" with an opening sized to your output and connect it via a hose and dust collection fitting. You'd need to mount the filter to the wall or some kind of structure with this setup.

I didn't find a picture online that showed the bottom of your collector's lid/motor assembly, so it is hard to recommend a way to incorporate a pre-separator like the super dust deputy. If you have a port from the motor/impeller side underneath to which you can attach a hose fitting, it would be pretty straightforward to run a hose to the SDD using Oneida's fittings and then follow their instructions for creating a lid that would attach to your existing drum. Again, a wall mount or structure to support the various components would be necessary, but easy to create if you have the room.

My Delta is a 1.5 hp unit and I am very happy with its performance after making the modifications. I don't know what yours is. The SDD will create a bit more drag, but in my experience the extra filter square footage of the cartridge instead of the bag more than makes up for it. Of course, the big benefit is how much more of the fine dust will be caught. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

Jon

[Harold Weaver]

Thought I would bring this post back up as the previous couple of replies hit home for me. I have one of these drum top collectors, a 2 HP Cincinnati Fan model on 55 gallon drum that has 6" inlet. The biggest reason for trying to incorporate something like an SDD or modification to this unit is the weight of lifting this thing off the drum. The blower lid assembly along with the Baldor motor is heavy as h*ll. I also wanted to add a Wynn type filter instead of the crappy bag. So I have been tossing around a lot of ideas. In looking at what John Leakes is trying to do is what I had in mind and have come to the conclusion that the only way to do this is to utilize the blower motor assembly only on a top shelf in a tower style design with the SDD and bin mounted underneath. This way when emptying the dust barrel, I'd never have to lift the motor/blower assembly. So basically, other then the motor/blower you are essentially scrapping the lid assembly. You could use the drum, but would have to make a lid for it to accept the SDD. Very doable. I even though about buying one of Oneida's bare cyclone bodies to do this with, but at 41" high, now we are getting into a height range with a tower build that is going to be above my celling height when you factor in the tower and all the necessary connectors and drum. I want to stay away from cutting holes in my garage ceiling.

I should also mention that these units are actually pretty decent units, at least my 2 HP model is, but the filter bags are garbage. In talking to Wynn about one of their filters, they sent me these photos of a drum top unit someone modified to accept a Wynn filter. Hopefully they will be of use to anyone with one of these units looking to upgrade the filter but keep it in basic original platform..
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[Henry Kramer]

I have the plastic SDD. It works like a charm. I hardly get any dust at all in the bag in my Jet DC-650.

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[Harold Weaver]

Henry,
Since you have experience with the "Plastic" SDD, I am wondering just how rigid these are as far as the molded plastic goes? Is it worth the additional monies for the Metal SDD? As far as the plastic one is concerned, what doe the inside look like, pipe down the center from the top or just an open cone?

[James Gunning]

Harold,

All of the SDD's have a tube running down into the cone. They would need to have that to make the cyclone work properly. I can't speak to the rigidity of the plastic SDD, but if it had been available when I bought my metal one, I would have opted for the plastic one. My metal one works just fine, but the plastic one is a slightly more efficient design. I would have adjusted my build to accommodate the plastic cyclone.

[Harold Weaver]

James,
Thanks for the info on this. I am looking to scavenge the 2HP blower/motor off my Cincinnati Dust Master and build a portable tower type design with an SDD. Seen 100s of pics on SDD builds, but never one showing the inside and what the internals looked like. Based on my design thoughts with blower mounted on top, it will come in just under 7' in height which is what I was looking to do.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The round inlet converting to square, and the downward spiral slope on the top make it look like a better design to me, just by looking at the outside. I wonder if it has an internal ramp.

I'm thinking about the Super Dust Deputy XL to go with my 3HP blower/impeller unit I took from my 4-bag Grizzly. I'm currently using an Ebay cyclone, but it may be too tall for my future basement shop.

[James Gunning]

Harold,
I just posted this a day ago: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230817-Yet-another-dust-collection-post!-Portable-SDD-build It has photos of my SDD and the Penn State blower assembly in my portable DC system. When I mated the two together, I took the side plate off the PS blower since it was only a 5" opening and I wanted to mate it to the 6" outlet on the SDD without needing a reducer. I made a new plate and doughnut from MDF with a larger 6" opening and a bellmouth profile to ease the airflow a bit. Pretty much however you do it, the blower can just sit on top of the cyclone. Mine isn't bolted to the cyclone and just sits there by gravity. It is bolted to the filter duct. I probably wouldn't have done that if I had the plastic SDD. The metal one is plenty strong to do that, but since the blower assembly with the motor is pretty heavy, I would support the blower if mounted on top of a plastic SDD. My frame is 65" tall at the top rail and the motor sticks up another 9" above that.

[Harold Weaver]

I am also wondering about what Peter posted above regarding the SDD XL. They list it for 3-5 HP, the standard SDD for 1-2 HP, leaving a gap from 2-3 unaccounted for. Wonder if I could get away using the XL in my build with a 2HP blower with a 12.5" fan producing 1100 CFM?

James, thanks for the input, my blower, with the Baldor motor is pretty darn heavy, not sure the plastic would hold it without support. My plan is to mount it on a shelf above with a small piece of hose or pipe connecting it to the top of the SDD to avoid and weight issues an instability.

[Harold Weaver]

James,
just finished looking at your other post with the photos of your collector build with the metal SDD, quite impressive and portable too. Exactly what I am looking to do!

By the way, I see you are in Orlando, I work in Orlando and live just up the I4 corridor in Orange City, FL. We'll have to hook up some time and talk shop!

[James Gunning]

Harold,

I suspect you could use any of the SDD's with your blower. I doubt the cyclones are matched that carefully to a HP/impeller requirement where one of them wouldn't work with a certain blower. Mine is working fine with 1 HP and a 10" impeller, but I will upgrade it when I can, since I recognize that the 1 HP blower is marginal. If I was to use your blower on a build with an SDD, if I had the overhead room, I would use the XL model. Partly for the 6" inlet, and partly because the diameter to cone length ratio is longer on the SDD-XL. From reading Bill Pentz's material, and other sources, the longer cones seem to do a better job capturing the fines than the shorter ones. The length to diameter ratio for the three SDD's is: metal SDD (shortest) 1.18, plastic SDD 1.8 and the plastic SDD-XL 2.08 (longest).

Shoot me a PM and we can talk about it some time.

[Harold Weaver]

The 6" opening is why I was considering the XL. I think I can make up for the extra 10.5" in height vs. the regular SDD by maybe using a smaller type barrel to keep the overall height down

[Jim Dwight]

The inside of a cyclone is very boring. The inlet is on the side and is just the tube coming into the cone. The outlet is on the top and is just a tube coming out. No baffles or anything in my Dust Deputy.



For those that want a way to clean a filter cartridge, I got the attached pdf when I bought a cartridge for my Delta AP-40. It is made of copper pipe and fittings and bits of plastic.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The inside of a cyclone is very boring. The inlet is on the side and is just the tube coming into the cone. The outlet is on the top and is just a tube coming out. No baffles or anything in my Dust Deputy.

Thanks Jim. Do you have the metal SDD, or the plastic one?

[Henry Kramer]

Henry,
Since you have experience with the "Plastic" SDD, I am wondering just how rigid these are as far as the molded plastic goes? Is it worth the additional monies for the Metal SDD? As far as the plastic one is concerned, what doe the inside look like, pipe down the center from the top or just an open cone?

It's hard for me to explain what it looks like inside Harold. It looks like a cyclone I guess. The molded plastic is pretty ridged. Very well made and I can't imagine what kind of force it would take to cause some damage to the plastic SDD. It sure does work well though.