Saw nib

[Jeff Wittrock]

I just bought some 1095 blue spring steel and have been planing on making a panel saw.

This evening I was looking at images of some older saws for ideas when my wife walked in and started lookin at them.
My wife is not really interested in woodworking. Sometimes she will try one of my tools out for the fun of it but just because it looks like fun and she is curious and enjoys trying things.

She noticed the nib on the end of the saws I was looking at and asked what they were for.
I told here no one really knows for sure and that it may have had a purpose at one time, but many think it is just ornamental.

She told me if it were her, she would turn the saw upside down and use it to start a slot in the wood. I couldn't help but laugh and told here thats why so many saws have the nib broken off. But if my wife comes to that conclusion without ever reading or hearing about a nib, then maybe there is something to it (my wife is a scientist, and far brighter than I can ever hope to be, so I take what she says seriously).

As I am planning my panel saw, I am a bit torn. If I really thought a nib had a good purpose, I would put one on, but if it is just for ornamentation, I honestly do not find them very attractive. Kind of the same way I would view a wart on my nose. Sure, I could live with it, but would not choose to have one given a choice.

[bridger berdel]

The only purpose for a nib I have heard of that makes even the slightest bit of sense is that it serves to alert you when you have over withdrawn the saw from the kerf (or are about to) to hopefully avert jamming the tip and kinking the saw.

Even in ancient texts they say it is purely ornamental.

[george wilson]

The nib is used to hold a string so it doesn't slip off the end of the blade. There is a string at each end of a slotted strip of wood. It covers the teeth of the saw so it won't cut up other tools in the toolbox. Or,a basket which 18th. C. carpenters used to carry their tools in. The other end of the strip of wood has a string that loops over the bottom of the saw's handle.

Old time tool makers were very frugal. They did not even supply chisels with handles,or saws that were sharpened ready to use. They expected the tradesman to be able to sharpen his saw and make handles,etc.. They did not waste time making useless nibs on saws.

Nibs are always round. They did not serve to "cut nails",be a "front sight"(Ha!! That one is really ridiculous),or any of the other silly things ascribed to them.

[Tony Zaffuto]

As I do much work out side in front of the garage in nice weather, and without a shirt, I contend the nib is for safely scratching your back without looking like a cat attacked you, if you were to use the teeth edge of the saw.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Ahhh another nib thread. I have actually see people get angry over this topic. Perhaps some guy was making a saw, and being a real jerk he said, "I think I'll leave this little nib just so that 250 years from now, after the Internet is invented, people can argue about it!" :cool:

On a serious note, I am so glad to see George supports my theory that a nib is there to hold the saw sheath- usually just a piece of wood with a string at each end. I believe the same reasoning explains the notch you find in most saw handles.

image is from this site and credited to Sidney Switzer. http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/z_reading/1917-NIB-menTrainingMag/1917-menTrainingMag-NIB.asp

[Kees Heiden]

Here I have to include an image of one of these old Dutch saws again. It doesn't just have a nib, it has a rather elaborated nose decoration. The handle of this saw ain't bad either. I really think the nib was ornamental. Many tools at that time had ornamentation. Especially on the European continent, for example nicely carved handplanes were quite widespread.

http://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/media/basic/images/plugins/collection/detail_1412_2_1391075488.jpg

http://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/ontdek-het-museum/collectie-voorwerpen/handzagen/handzaag-met-pistoolgreep-4/

[Malcolm Schweizer]

In my opinion (which is worth very little on the open market), there is little decoration from a nib. I would say Kees' example is more a decorative nib for tying the string to as opposed to a plain one. In fact, the "wings" on that nib would help keep the string from coming off.

Not arguing spitefully, just respectfully disagreeing. When I die, I do intend to find the guy who made the first nib and ask him what it was for.

Another theory- it was for shooting rubber bands at other sawyers.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

To be fair, Kees' example has a nib and a hole. Although the hole could have been drilled later on by some owner to hang the saw with, if it were drilled by the maker then certainly there wouldn't be much need for a nib.

The plot thickens.

[Kees Heiden]

There are more of these saws with a hole in the same position. So I think it could very well be original.

[george wilson]

English tools tended to be much less decorated than continental examples. Those found on the Mary Rose had no decoration at all. Even the molding planes were just open sided,with the wedge sawn in rather than mortised. The iron parts perished,so no blades survived to examine. But,no effort at all was wasted on ornamentation.

Kee's example could have been owner added to show pride of ownership,or as a way to prove who owned the saw if he had no stamp to mark it with(or was illiterate). No way of really knowing. But,Continental tools were definitely more ornamental than English. England was always the last place for culture to reach,being the farthest West from other countries. Certainly this definitely applies to harpsichord making. That started in Italy,and spread West. Henry VIII had to import Flemish armor makers to start armor making in England,at the tail end of the armor period. He was embarrassed by the gift of a very elaborate suit of armor by Maximilian of Austria,which even had steel eyeglasses on it. I saw it in the Tower of London. It said"Look what my guys can do,and your's cannot" to Henry. The English did not make fine guns until Hugenot gunsmiths settled there. Previous English guns were crude and awkward by comparison.

They dug up an old saw at Jamestown,which had a large ogee cut into the end of the blade. It could have been a place to tie a string. No way of knowing if the saw was English or European as far as I can remember.

I saw an old jointer plane which was kept in a tool box next to the saw. It had rip saw teeth marks thoroughly impressed down its side because no stick was put over the saw's teeth. You could clearly tell the TPI on the saw,so clearly were they impressed. If you have ever ridden in a farm type horse drawn wagon,you have an idea how jarring the ride was. Especially on cobble stones.

Who ever owned those tools was too lazy to take proper care of them. The other workers probably ridiculed him.


THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE PROOF OF HOW THE NIB WAS USED. THIS MAY GO ON FOR 10 PAGES. I learned what I know of this from old Mr. Simms,who was in his 70's in 1970. He was the sole furniture restorer in the museum at that time. This is how him and his fellows used the nib many years ago. Roy Underhill has his chest now.

[Kees Heiden]

Yeah, as long as we don't find paintings or drawings or other artefacts with a saw equiped like that, it all remains a theory.

[bridger berdel]

So four uses:
Decoration.
identification.
sheath tying.
kink prevention.


Any more?

[Jim Koepke]

Any more?

There is a half baked idea about how it can be rested against a nail and then a pencil placed between saw teeth can be used to scribe an arc or a circle. After all, how often does a tradesman forget to bring a compass to the job site?

jtk

[george wilson]

That's a new one,Jim. And,how awkward would that be? People can think up more B.S. than they can think up fact.

[Pat Barry]

I just don't buy the idea of it being there to tie on a sheath. I simple indentation would be far more practical, after all, to put the nib on there requires removing a lot of material - not the easiest thing to do. No, that thing is a nicker for sure. That's the only explanation that has ever made any sense. I wonder what Warren thinks?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Why do you need a nicker on a saw? A saw IS a nicker! I'm open to the idea that my theory might be wrong, but I haven't been convinced of any others as yet. The ones that I least accept are:

Compass point
Aiming Sight
Kerf starter/cleaner, which I will include nicker under this


The ones I might accept are:


Identifying mark of the maker
Identifying mark of the saw- i.e. you want to grab a crosscut versus a rip, maybe there is a different nib or presence/absence of one on each saw without looking at the teeth
Decoration, although I have to say, it's not much of a decoration
Showing off- a maker puts it there just to show that they are just that good at making a saw that they can shape a little nib on the ridge of the saw.
Something you can use to test the metal. I kind of don't like this theory, but perhaps "back in the day" with less precise metallurgy than we have today (not that it wasn't good- just they didn't have the standards and technology we have today) a person might want to test a little piece of the saw for hardness, and the nib is for testing. Meh... could be...


The one I personally accept:

A place to tie a sheath.


The one I wish were true, but highly unlikely:

A device for shooting rubber bands at fellow craftsmen.


Although this topic comes up a lot on various woodworking and tool sites, and has been thoroughly hashed out, I am kind of glad it came up again because I always hope someone will chime in with some image they found in their great, great grandfather's attic.

Please don't anyone take my comments here as retaliatory or defensive. I would be happy to be proven wrong and find that it was actually a back scratcher or whatever, and finally have the answer! It has been a curiosity of mine for no real reason other than I hate not knowing. That said, if I find an image of a saw with a sheath tied to it, you all owe me a beer. :cool:

[Jim Koepke]

That's a new one,Jim. And,how awkward would that be?


The ones that I least accept are:
Compass point

So awkward as to be almost impossible.

It was meant as a joke.

The only time thoughts about the nib come to mind for me is when one of these threads appears.

Not knowing if the saw plates were stamped or not makes me wonder if it was merely a remnant of the quality control in the factory. It may have been used for taper ground saw plates as a place to check to see how much metal was on a set point of the spine before teeth were cut.

That is just a guess and has no more validity than being a mount for shooting rubber bands.

jtk

[george wilson]

Pat: You are aware that the nib is always hemispherical in shape? HOW could such a dull shape be a nicker? That makes no sense to me at all.

[Jim Koepke]

HOW could such a dull shape be a nicker? That makes no sense to me at all.

The idea of a nicker on the back of the saw doesn't make sense to anyone who thinks about it.

Anyone who knows how to use a saw wouldn't need one on the saw. If this were the purpose, anyone knowing how to use a saw would look at said saw and figure it was for beginners and would buy a saw "made for those who know how to use a saw."

Who ever placed the first nib on a saw may have put it there simply as a way of seeing who was paying attention to and copying their product.

"Say chief, they have tail fins, we should have tail fins."

jtk

[Jeff Wittrock]

I originally posted because I thought it was pretty funny that my wife would come up with the idea of starting a cut with it on her own without ever hearing anything about a nib.
Looks like there are lots of opinions out there.

I imagine that toolmakes of the past had to be pretty pragmatic, so it seems to make sense the nib was more than just an ornament. But then again, of what purpose is a lambs tounge? It is certainly more work than just a simple closed handle without the additional sculpting. So I don't think we can discount the fact that toolmakes of the past were no less likely to put effort into something that is just ornamental than we are today.

What do I think a nib is for?
I don't have a clue. I only know that I think the thing is ugly and am leaning towards leaving it off my own saw :). I am trying to take what I can from history, and leave the things I don't like behind.

[Moses Yoder]

How was a saw plate cut when Disston first manufactured saws? How would the nib actually have been formed? Nowadays it would be stamped out with a die I guess. Just wondering if the nib on early Disston saws actually would take extra time to make? For me personally, I am just going to use the nib for whatever I think of.

[george wilson]

The nib takes extra trouble to make. It consists of not only the nib itself,but a lowering of the top edge of the saw plate in front of the nib too. On the 18th. C. Kenyon saws we made,it additionally consisted of making a large radius on the top front edge of the saw plate as well.

I don't see why saw makers would go to this trouble and extra expense if it was purely ornamental.

[Eric Brown]

All of the very old saws I have seen with a nib, the area before the nib was parallel with the rest of the back. The newer saw makers took liberties and sometimes angled this area. If there was a purpose for the nib other than holding a string or decoration, then consider this: The English were being taxed by the number of windows they had. Therefore, many homes had few windows. Later the taxes were changed and people wanted windows. Remember, this was before electricity, so lighting was by oil lamp, candle, etc. So how would a carpenter cut a hole in a wall back then to fit a new window and keep things square? My guess is that they would cut a slotted hole into the plaster and insert the saw, cutting wall board until a stud is hit. You would then stick the saw into the slot until the nib contacts the stud, moving the handle until the area before the nib makes contact. You then would know where the edge of the stud was. You can also layout a square cut across a board by holding the nib against another square board held slightly higher on the back of the board you wish to mark and then using the area between the nib and the handle as a straight edge. This idea also works for angles using an angled board for the nib to register off of. Just speculation, but I really think there was a definite purpose for the original nib.

I've added a picture to this post showing how a nib can be used to mark a board square.

300379

[Jim Koepke]

The nib takes extra trouble to make. It consists of not only the nib itself,but a lowering of the top edge of the saw plate in front of the nib too. On the 18th. C. Kenyon saws we made,it additionally consisted of making a large radius on the top front edge of the saw plate as well.

I don't see why saw makers would go to this trouble and extra expense if it was purely ornamental.

Until about 1910 Stanley made some tools with purely ornamental features. There was almost an industrial Victorian tool fashion until the early 20th century.

One article on the nib suggests it is only there because someone started putting it there and it then became one of those, "we have always done it this way" traditions:


About that time I saw Mr. Schiele again and he told me that the Disston people fully believe that the "nib" is and always has been an ornament placed there by an early saw maker with feeling for design, and then copied year after year. He referred me to the statement in Disston's Handbook on Saws which reads thus: The "Nib" near the end of a handsaw has no practical use whatever, it merely serves to break the straight line of the back of blade and is an ornamentation only.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/z_reading/1917-NIB-menTrainingMag/1917-menTrainingMag-NIB.asp

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

The origin of the nib goes way back, long before Diston. The Dutch saw I showed is a 17th century model. The Seaton saws are late 18th century. As far back as these kinds of saws exist, they seem to have had a nib, saws with a handle on one end and an unsupported long blade contrary to bowsaws.

A lot of things were ornamental back then. Just look at furniture from the 17th century, a lot of it has carving even mundane stuff like stools or keep sake boxes for village people.

The same goes for tools. Just look at this image from 1694 (The plumber, from Jan Luyken). The steps of the ladder, or the decoration of the bellows. I see no reason why they wouldn't tart up their saws a little bit.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll266/Kees2351/temp/RP-P-1936-461_zps7a5f2203.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Kees2351/media/temp/RP-P-1936-461_zps7a5f2203.jpg.html)

[Justin Green]

This is from a Museum of Early American Tools by Eric Sloane, to add some more fuel to the fire.

[george wilson]

Man,those are poor drawings.

[Justin Green]

Man,those are poor drawings.

Agreed, but it was all I had to stir the pot with :)

[Dave Anderson NH]

Once upon a time in a land far far away where all tool designs originated and all designs were perfectly ergonomic, and all tools were made in the best manner of the best materials, there was a sawmaker with a warped sense of humor.

Anyone care to finish what is in actuality the real answers to the saw nib question?

[bridger berdel]

The nib takes extra trouble to make. It consists of not only the nib itself,but a lowering of the top edge of the saw plate in front of the nib too. On the 18th. C. Kenyon saws we made,it additionally consisted of making a large radius on the top front edge of the saw plate as well.

I don't see why saw makers would go to this trouble and extra expense if it was purely ornamental.



Decorating tools is probably as old as tools. Some of the northern european woodworking tools are so heavily carved that I cannot escape the mental image of the woodworker snowbound in his cabin for months, waiting for the spring melt, doing anything he can to work with his tools.

[Pat Barry]

I don't actually have a saw with a nib so I can't experiment, but if I did I would give two things a try to see if they amount to anything. I would try the idea of using the nib as a nicker to create a starting point for the saw cut by holding the saw upside down(teeth up) and running the backedge of the saw along side my thumb and drawing back the saw to nick the corner and create the starting point. This would produce a slight roundover that would seem to make starting a cut simpler.

Also, I am now thinking, since the nicker idea doesn't seem to be flying, is that the nib might be a simple way, coupled with a straightedge, to simply scribe a line on the board for the intended cutting line. Use the same tool to mark the line and then cut it. Who knows, it just might work?

[Brian Hale]

The nib is so you can use the saw as a compass. Drive a nail and hook it with the nib, put your pencil point in a tooth gullet and swing an arc.

Brian ;)

[Jim Koepke]

I would try the idea of using the nib as a nicker to create a starting point for the saw cut by holding the saw upside down(teeth up) and running the backedge of the saw along side my thumb and drawing back the saw to nick the corner and create the starting point.

This has not only been tried in the past, it is likely the most common reason for missing nibs.

Using the horns of the handle to control a saw makes it easy to start a cut without some other means of starting a kerf.

A marking knife is often used to make such a starting point and would be quicker to do when marking the cut than changing one's grip on a saw to first mark with the nib and then flip the saw and cut.


Anyone care to finish what is in actuality the real answers to the saw nib question?

I would love to but there is a lot on my plate for today.

It would be quite enjoyable to spin an elaborate tale about a son taking over his father's saw making business. Yet he wanted a way to show the world that he was "Newly In Business"... And thus, the NIB was born.

Now isn't everyone happy there wasn't time for me to wright a 2,000 word essay to get to that?

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

Nope.....it was used by the journeyman to pull on the apprentice's plumb bob string, without the lad seeing what was going on.

[David Weaver]

drawing the saw itself backwards (on the teeth) would do better to make a starting point for a cut. If we were going to figure out what the nib was for with certainty, we'd already know it. It's not cutting or marking, though, as the last thing you'd want (comparing it to a nicker on a plane) is an unsupported long blade - the nib would had to have been placed close to the handle for that where it would be rigid.

At this point, there's no great reason to guess about it. George's answer seems the most reasonable as far as an educated guess goes, but it really doesn't matter.

[Tom M King]

No carpenter would use a saw to probe for a stud when installing a window where one was not previously. He would have just knocked a hole in the plaster and lath about where the middle of the window would be with a hammer, and gone from there- much like plumbers do today when needing to access a pipe behind sheetrock.

[Tony Zaffuto]

So no one agrees with mu assumption of using the nib as a back scratcher????

[David Weaver]

So no one agrees with mu assumption of using the nib as a back scratcher????

"Hey tony, what happened to your sweater?"

[george wilson]

Maybe they could probe for electric wires or soft copper water pipes!!:)

How the devil can you use the nicker to scribe a line? I'd like to see anyone get the nicker down on the wood since it is flush or below the level of the saw's back. And,as mentioned,it is round,and not a suitable shape to start a mark for cutting. It is also thinner than the toothed edge is. How are you going to start a saw in a cut thinner than the teeth?

As for using the nibbed end to lay against a squared board to mark another board square,that would be infinitely easier to do with a saw that had no nib. Just use the straight saw back. It is much longer than 2" of saw in front of a nib.

Let's try to keep these possibilities reasonably within the realm of reason. :)

[Pat Barry]

How the devil can you use the nicker to scribe a line? I'd like to see anyone get the nicker down on the wood since it is flush or below the level of the saw's back. And,as mentioned,it is round,and not a suitable shape to start a mark for cutting. It is also thinner than the toothed edge is. How are you going to start a saw in a cut thinner than the teeth?
See George, the examples I have seen are the nib being proud of the back of the saw. If they are in fact recessed then nib is an entirely wrong term. Maybe in that case it would be dip instead of nib. Nib to me conjurs the picture of a bump but not a transition from a lower level to a higher level. Pure and simple its a small raised feature. The mystery lives on. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?58972-Saw-nib

[george wilson]

Please look more closely,Pat. The nib is flush or even slightly below the back of the saw. We made our copies of the Kenyons with actual UNUSED originals on hand. We made the backs straight,sheared down the first few inches of the front edge,and hand filed the round nib into the metal. So,does that make it a half nib,a nibbet,a niblet?(You can buy them by the can full !):) Dip won't do. That implies a divot in the back.

I take it JK means just kidding? I am nearly 74.

[John Coloccia]

There once was a nib on a saw
Whose mystery left us in awe
With mostly dumb uses
Or lost through abuses
It should be considered a flaw

[Mel Fulks]

Fine writing ,John!

[Pat Barry]

Please look more closely,Pat. The nib is flush or even slightly below the back of the saw. We made our copies of the Kenyons with actual UNUSED originals on hand. We made the backs straight,sheared down the first few inches of the front edge,and hand filed the round nib into the metal. So,does that make it a half nib,a nibbet,a niblet?(You can buy them by the can full !):) Dip won't do. That implies a divot in the back.

I take it JK means just kidding? I am nearly 74.
Yes, just kidding George. By the way, you are not quite old enough to be my father unless you were very active as a young teenager.

[Pat Barry]

Fine writing ,John!

^ +1. You have a future in this

[Jim Koepke]

then nib is an entirely wrong term.

Discussing the use of a relatively useless ornamentation is one thing.

Then getting into a discussion about what it should be called?


How the devil can you use the nicker to scribe a line? I'd like to see anyone get the nicker down on the wood since it is flush or below the level of the saw's back.

My having tried this once after someone suggested it gives me the impression of anyone who suggests this use hasn't tried it.

Until someone comes up with a historical reference document, it seems using it as a string holder for the tooth cover is in reality the best use.

jtk

[george wilson]

I think several people who haven't tried some of the suggested uses have posted ideas!!:)

Very surprised that some supposed "historic oriented" user of woodworking tools would post something totally impractical,though.

I challenge everyone to file all of their saw's teeth into the shape of a nib,and try to get HUNDREDS of them to cut wood. Let alone expecting ONE nib to do so!!!:):):)

My idea of it being a holder for a stick to protect the teeth(and other tools) came from old mr. Simms,whose toolbox Roy had on his show. He was in his late 70's in 1970,when I was 29 and first was at Williamsburg. He was at work way back years ago,when finish carpenters did real finish carpentry,like fine wood paneling,etc.. He said they used to do it. It was common for carpenters to carry their tools in baskets,as illogical as that might seem,that's what they did. I guess the baskets were light weight. How long would a basket last with naked saw teeth rustling about? How well would the other tools have fared? How well would the saw teeth have fared,rubbing against other metal tools?



I have no one 250 years old to quote. Mr. Simms is the best I can do.

[steven c newman]

Quick answer: have someone with a saw that has a nib, try all the suggestion made. and then report back as to the results?

BTW: I do happen to have a No.7 with nib.....

As for the shape of the nib being used to score a line.....I happened to have a #78 rebate plane with the "nickers". Only one is sharpened to cut a line. Ever try to use the ones that aren't? Don't work too well, do it?

[John Coloccia]

Why didn't they just file a notch in the saw? I don't doubt that your explanation could very well be right, and even if it's not I don't doubt that it was used like that regardless, but it seems like an awful lot of work for just that purpose. I also don't buy the idea that it's there for decoration because frankly, I think it's quite ugly and tacky. I can't imagine that someone ever though to themselves, "You know what would make this look nicer? A big pimple, right here at the end where you can stare at it all day long while you're sawing." The handles are ornate, but I've seen professional woodcarvers work. I'll bet that guys knocking those out all day, every day, could make a beautiful tote in their sleep in the time it takes me to cook dinner.

[Jim Koepke]

Quick answer: have someone with a saw that has a nib, try all the suggestion made. and then report back as to the results?

It seems the idea of using to launch rubber bands is out since the nib appears in drawings before the rubber band was patented. Of course some will argue the case for "build it and the band will arrive."

It seems in all the cleverness of mankind, one man added a little decorative detail to his saws. Then a few workers with strings and sticks put it to good use to cover the teeth of their saws.

All other uses seem to come off as half baked. Whereas the string holding a stick appears to have been fully baked.

At least it is keeping me warm in the house instead of freezing out in the shop building a tea cabinet for SWMBO.

jtk

[george wilson]

I don't have a picture to post,but I have seen a picture of a saw dug up at Jamestown(I think). It had a large ogee on the nose. It started out as a big notch,then swelled up and swooped down to the rounded off tip of the saw. It looked very likely that the later nicker was a much shrunk up evolution of that 17th. C. nose. The notch in the ogee was still quite suitable for tying a string in.

The late 18th. C. Kenyon saws we copied still had the well rounded off nose,but also the small nicker like later 19th. C. and early 20th. C.'s.

I was just out in the shop making an A2 steel punch and die set for my wife. It is a parallelogram shape to be the reverse of one I made years ago. She wants to make pairs of earrings. We serve our wives differently!!

[Ron Bontz]

SO I am guessing this would be considered useless. 300553I still like it though. What year did this come from? :)

[David Weaver]

What year did this come from? :)

I'm guessing 2014!

[Ron Bontz]

DING DING DING! Dave WINS THE GRAND PRIZE. Sorry I couldn't resist.
I actually would favor the "string theory". Or even the steel test theory. Once upon a time they made steel in smaller batches and not so scientifically. Just as we do today, you take one out of a batch at random and test to see how brittle it is. If too brittle, all goes back to the furnace. But if ok. File that one smooth and leave the rest to the string theory. Or what ever use one can think of.
"I don't see why saw makers would go to this trouble and extra expense if it was purely ornamental."
Because, otherwise we would all be doing the same old thing the same old way and there would be no reason to prefer one over the other. Every "tool maker", like a furniture maker adds his/ her own style in the creative scheme of things according to the desire and resources he/ she has at the time. Unlike todays line of thought; not every thing was all about the gold coin. But I am sure even then it was a "keep up with the Jones" as well. If it was not pleasing to the eye, as well as functional. It was unlikely to be picked up, or prized as much as " the other guys". Enough said. Best wishes from the dark side. :)

[David Weaver]

Here's an answer google told me. I was trying to relay this to George last evening as we were talking about mickey mouse and donald duck on the phone, and I totally blew up where it came from. It's from a cigarette box!

300558

(and no, this doesn't do anything for me in terms of actually understanding what they're saying. And I've used saws some!)

[george wilson]

You did get that silly idea across to me last night David!! It just goes to show that one should not get their educations off of cigarette boxes!! Not that you did.

[Ron Bontz]

Hmm. I would think that would only be useful if you didn't want to cut anymore and just clean out the kerf. The nib is thinner than the teeth, for what it is worth. I often use scraps of thinner plates to clean out saw kerfs, myself. Beyond that. It's back to square one. :)

[David Weaver]

You did get that silly idea across to me last night David!! It just goes to show that one should not get their educations off of cigarette boxes!! Not that you did.

I didn't get mine off of cigarette boxes, but close... I went to state school!

[Mel Fulks]

That cigarette box nuttiness is hard to top. But I will try. "During the American Civil War a weapon was introduced for civilians to protect themselve. A catapult type thing . Women,not wanting to launch their own stuff, often fired off their
husband's wood working tools. The saw was a much more effective weapon than a ruler, square, or even a hammer. They found saws to be the easiest thing to aim, ....since it had that sight nib. Some say that the nib equipped hand saws were
a major cause of limb loss. In one diary entry a Gladys Firebran wrote, "Fired a hand saw at a Yankee and parted him
from a LEG. The purpose of the nib is clear to me....but I don't know why they call the saws HAND saws." So George, I agree the nib was originally for a string to hold saw guard but by the dogs of war became a front sight, so you are partly
right. Hope this helps to clear things up.

[Jeff Wittrock]

It was used to attach a string, but not for attaching a gaurd as many think. It was in fact used to attach a string that was then used to pull the saw across a piece of wood to demonstrate the sharpening skills of the maker. Kind of like some guys do with their planes.

[george wilson]

Don't be ridiculous,Jeff!!!! Only the Japanese saw makers do THAT!!!!:) Only,they have to put their nibs on the rear end.