Beall buff question

[Wes Ramsey]

I picked up the 8" Beall wood buff set a few weeks ago and am very happy with the results so far, but I've had issues with one walnut vase. The tripoli wheel has buffed right through the poly finish a couple of times and I've had to sand the piece down and re-coat. I didn't have anything on the finish when I put on the poly - just bare wood. After the 1st time it happened I tried to buff the finish completely off - some spots it eventually came off, but others it just wouldn't come off the wood and buffed to a high sheen. I don't think I was buffing particularly hard, but maybe I had the wheel spinning too fast? Or did I perhaps get an oily fingerprint on the wood before the poly (unlikely, but always possible)?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Wes,

What speed are you running the buffing wheel at?
How much pressure are you applying?
How many coats of poly did you apply?
How long did you wait for the poly to dry/cure?

[Scott Hackler]

My buffing rules are to set the speed at about 700 rpm, light pressure, keep the wood moving at all times and no buffing until I cannot smell the finish (or at least very faint smell). Works pretty well and I don't buff through.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Be careful when using the White Diamond on walnut, it can get in the pores and you'll never get it out. Sounds like you don't have much finish on. If you fill all the pores with finish, you can use the WD.

[Wes Ramsey]

I had the speed around 1700-1800rpm, or at least that's my best guesstimate. My lathe is a Delta 46-541 with Reeves drive and the belt is on the smallest pulley. According to the chart on the lathe the speed is in the range of what is correct for the buffing wheels. I was pushing hard enough to just bend the wheel fibers a bit. I had applied 3 coats of poly, sanding them smooth between coats with 400 grit and allowed to dry 1-2 days between coats. My shop is not heated so once the poly sets up in the shop I set the piece in my office in front of the blower on my mini-split heat pump.

This time around I'm going to put on an extra coat of poly and only sand to 600 grit to see if that helps any. So far I haven't used the WD wheel or compound as I've only been finishing walnut pieces lately. I read enough horror stories to avoid that combination before I bought into the Beall system! Other pieces I've polished have come out nicely using Minwax paste wax applied with a rag and buffed out with the wax buffing wheel. Haven't used the carnauba bar yet and don't know that I ever will.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Wes, sounds like the speed you are buffing at is the problem. At that speed, even with moderate to light pressure, it will generate heat and that will melt the finish. I usually buff at less than 1000 rpm and even then keep the piece moving so as to not generate heat.

[Thom Sturgill]

+1 on speed issues. I usually start just a hair faster than Steve - about 1100, then drop to about 900 for WD and 700 for wax. I have some very soft compound designed for plastic or lacquer that I often use instead of the tripoli/WD and follow it with wax. Wax of choice is Ren wax hand applied sparingly, allowed to dry and then buffed either by hand or slow wheel.

[Marty Tippin]

The instructions with the Beall buff recommend 1725 RPM for the 8" wheels and faster for the 4" bowl buffs. Heat comes from too much pressure, not too much speed.

The how-to videos from Beall are pretty helpful and worth watching if you haven't seen them already http://www.bealltool.com/instructions.php

[Michelle Rich]

When this set - up came out, Beall had instructions for Danish oil on the pieces & then buffing that. I do not know if this has changed..does he now say use on this type of finish?

[David Delo]

The instructions with the Beall buff recommend 1725 RPM for the 8" wheels and faster for the 4" bowl buffs. Heat comes from too much pressure, not too much speed.The how-to videos from Beall are pretty helpful and worth watching if you haven't seen them already http://www.bealltool.com/instructions.phpThat's what I've been using. Most everything that I've used the Beall for has been finished with Watco clear first and I've been well pleased with the results. But there's a number of replies at much lower rpm's. Think I'll try the lower rpm's next time and see if there's a difference in results.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Heat comes from too much pressure, not too much speed.

I agree, however, when you buff at 1725 rpm, the buffing wheel has very little give to it and only takes a little pressure to create that heat. My experience has been that if I turn the buffing speed down, the wheel softens, covers more of the surface being buffed and allows me to apply pressure to those areas I want. Just saying that it is more forgiving at a slower speed and gives me more control over the final finish.

[Fred Belknap]

I'm with the slower buffing gang. I usually buff EEE around 700rpm and wax at a little slower speed. I think the 1725 rpm speed in the instructions are for people to use the buff on electric motors. Most electric motors run at either 1750 or 3500 rpm. I tried a 1750 rpm motor and it was just to fast for me.

[David Delo]

Tried out the slower speed today on a orphan walnut bowl I had finished with Watco a couple weeks ago. Used the wheel buff to put the RD on the outside at 800rpm and then used the bowl buff for the inside. Liked the results for the outside but needed to up the speed a little bit to 1000 for the buff to feel/see good results. Used 1200 for the wax and only used the wheel for both outside and inside.

Bottom line.......I liked the results, wheels were a little bit more pliable and fit this bowls profile very well. Also felt much more comfortable hold the piece without being concerned about it getting ripped out of my hand. Think I continue with this procedure. Can't tell the difference between the two different speeds.
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[Leo Van Der Loo]

One of the problems with buffing (and I always use at least 1725 rpm) is that the finish is still not hard, it takes more than a day or two, especially when the temps are lower.

Give the finish a week or two, or longer and your results will be much better.

One other thing with woods like Walnut is that it has open grain, there will be more finish in the wood pores and it takes much longer to harden up, you should take much longer between re-coating and also before buffing, sealing the grain before putting the finish on does help some.

[Wally Dickerman]

I see two possible problems here.....I always let the finish cure for a week or so before using the Beall system. With most finishes the finish can be dry to the touch but not cured.You say that you place the piece in front of heating system to cure. Most finishes are formulated to dry at room temps. Around 70 degrees. If it's too hot the finish polymerizes too fast (cures) So the finish would be soft and buffing would possibly go through it.

[Russell Neyman]

Test pieces!

[Wes Ramsey]

I took y'all's advice and slowed down the tripoli buff to about 1000rpm and I like the results much better. The tripoli buff works best when it has some heat to make the finish easier to polish, but I certainly had too much heat. I finished my intended piece today buffing at the slower speed and I really liked how much better it worked. Takes longer to get a good polish, but much faster than having to strip and re-finish. Thanks again guys!

[Mike Goetzke]

Tried out the slower speed today on a orphan walnut bowl I had finished with Watco a couple weeks ago. Used the wheel buff to put the RD on the outside at 800rpm and then used the bowl buff for the inside. Liked the results for the outside but needed to up the speed a little bit to 1000 for the buff to feel/see good results. Used 1200 for the wax and only used the wheel for both outside and inside.

Bottom line.......I liked the results, wheels were a little bit more pliable and fit this bowls profile very well. Also felt much more comfortable hold the piece without being concerned about it getting ripped out of my hand. Think I continue with this procedure. Can't tell the difference between the two different speeds.
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I'm new to turning and I buffed a bowl with the Beall three step system and my bowl cam out too shinny for my liking. This bowl doesn't look as shinny as mine did - is it the final wax?

Thanks,

Mike

[Steve Schlumpf]

Mike - a lot of things will vary the final sheen: type of finish, type of wood, level of sanding, amount you buff before applying wax and there is also the possibility that the lighting in the above photos affect the perceived sheen.

[Thom Sturgill]

I'm new to turning and I buffed a bowl with the Beall three step system and my bowl cam out too shinny for my liking. This bowl doesn't look as shinny as mine did - is it the final wax?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, you can always knock the shine back. It is much easier than getting the shine. But remember that shine sells.

I prefer a shiny exterior and a satin interior if it is a user, shiny if it is a display piece. There are of course exceptions.

[David Delo]

I'm new to turning and I buffed a bowl with the Beall three step system and my bowl cam out too shinny for my liking. This bowl doesn't look as shinny as mine did - is it the final wax?Thanks,MikeMike,I have no idea about your shine versus my shine level. These are just cell phone pictures taken in a shop with fluorescent lighting that have been reduced in pixel size. Seem to get same results regardless of rpm used.