Moving unexpectedly

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Question for you guys. Looks like I'm moving unexpectedly. I've been leasing our current place, but the owner wants to move back in after I fixed it up very nicely. Yep I'm an idiot for that. Of course it's super short notice, and I'm trying to figure some things out. Because I don't want to end up here again, I'm probably going to trade this big farmstead for a house in town. Makes sense on all levels except for the woodshop.

Here's the question, should I liquidate my tools and buy ones that fit the new space as needed, or store the tools until new space can be bought/built. I hate to sell them all, there is an emotional thing there, but because we haven't even picked the new house/garage, it may be the best idea. Thoughts????

[Myk Rian]

Store them.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Store them.

Except, perhaps, any that you are annoyed with / have outgrown, and want to upgrade. No need to drag them around with you.

For example - I have upgraded jointer, DP, and mortiser over the years.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I don't want to upgrade anything actually, well except the time I have to use them. Some of this stuff would cost three to four times what I'd get by selling to replace. The leading contender is a big single car garage, but some space to add on. My Felder just plain won't fit until adding on for example.

[Jim Rimmer]

Store them.
That's what I would do.

[Leigh Betsch]

Sorry to hear you need to move to town. I agree it usually makes the most sense dollar wise but it would kill me living in town again. We bought a lake cabin with plenty of open space for me and the dogs, but we still have neighbors, seems to be going ok though. Course we still have the farm place too. I have thought about taking a job transfer, building a shop at the lake to move the tools into, with the plans to come back in a few years ans retire there. But that would also be a lot of hassle just for a few more years of work.
Id keep the tools, you won't get full value, but it will still cost full value to replace. Of course if you do sell I need to know if a nice green Oliver lathe is on the list. Don't suppose you'd take a nice radial arm saw on trade?.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Putting things in storage often amounts to foisting the task of throwing them away onto your heirs. What will storage cost?

Some tools that are good today are destined to become obsolete - at least for people who want convenience. For example, a person who put small corded drills in storage 10 years ago would probably end up using cordless drills today. Perhaps the same will happen for other corded tools. The corded hitachi hand planer I had years ago did not have the convenient tab on it that lets me set the planer down flat when I'm not using it. I replaced it with a Ryobi, which also has a more convenient depth adjustment. The Craftsman air compessor I had worked well but it was so loud that I hesitated to use it when the neighbors were around. I replaced it with a quieter Makita. If you move to town, you'll have to think about tool noise It's more common to hear brags like "I have a 25 ton buzz saw that was made in 1913 and no modern tool can compare to it" than to hear pleasant comments about a neighbor who has one.

An interesting question is how much you enjoy using tools to fix other tools and make environments for other tools - versus using tools to make non-tool things. If you enjoy building a workshop as much a using a workshop then storing a cache of bulky tools would give you justification for using tools to provide a better home for them.

[Larry Browning]

Storage costs can get away from you in a hurry. So all that extra money you would have saved by not selling can soon be gone and then some if have to store things longer than expected.
I'm not saying this is what I would do, I would probably do the storage thing and then realize sometime in the future that I had already spent more on storage than my tools were worth. Then I would justify still not selling because I would think that I would be moving them out of storage "very soon" and 2 years later say "sure wish I would have sold that stuff 2 years ago!" Of course, on the other hand, 2 weeks after I had had a big sale and gotten half of what I thought I was gonna get, a new shop would fall into my lap.
You just can't win, no matter what you do!

[Larry Edgerton]

I've got room here Steve........:D

Don't do it. If nothing else find a place with just a storage building that you can buy/rent till the shock of all this is over. You have some very nice stuff and if you sell it at a loss you will probably never replace it. I have gone through two catastrophic divorces, but I always made sure I still had my tools. Each purchase was a little financially painful and I just would not want to do that twice.

Houses? They come and go, but good tools are forever.

Sorry about your difficulties, but this too will pass and you may find yourself in a better place.

Larry

Leigh, if you are on that lake outside of Watertown I wrecked a 71 Cuda' convertible going around that lake. Those were the days.........:cool:

[Wade Lippman]

I moved three years ago and sold all my tools except the small valuable ones (kapex, Jet 1642...) Then I bought the ones I really wanted based on a few years of experience with the old ones. YMMV

[Brian Elfert]

I don't know what storage costs in your area, but I was quoted $200 a month for storage back in May for a 10x20. You have to think about storage costs versus what the tools would cost to re-buy.

I can't believe what people pay to store. I know people who have sold their house and started full time RVing who stored heirloom furniture. They often end up getting rid of the stuff after paying thousands in storage fees.

[Andrew Joiner]

Any chance of leasing just the shop building at your current location? It will all work out somehow, Steve. I would keep it as simple as you can. Selling would take time and you do want the tools. Can you store in the single car garage at the new place until you add on?

[Leigh Betsch]

Leigh, if you are on that lake outside of Watertown I wrecked a 71 Cuda' convertible going around that lake. Those were the days.........:cool:

not Kapeska, Lake Henricks, over on the SD/MN boarder. In 1976 I got my Pontiac reared ended by a Cuda, totaled them both. Those really were the days.

One thought I have kicking around is to find a closed down store in one of the small local towns and just rent it instead of building a shop. Maybe even take on a few projects for the locals.

[Jim Koepke]

I've been leasing our current place, but the owner wants to move back in after I fixed it up very nicely. Yep I'm an idiot for that. Of course it's super short notice, and I'm trying to figure some things out.

Something seems off to me. My understanding is a lease doesn't allow for "super short notice" unless you just assumed the lease would be renewed.

As to your fixes to the property are they something you can bill the current owner for fixing? Sometimes just the suggestion of such can put the brakes on moving.

In a forced quick sale of your equipment you will not get what it is worth, let alone enough to replace it all.

The ideas others have suggested like renting an abandoned store or shop might be a better idea than storage.

jtk

[Wayne Hendrix]

Just went though a similar move, mine wasn't so short of notice, but I went from shop space to no shop space. Also I will be moving again next year and will not know what city I am moving to until March and probably wont have any idea on shop space until a week or two before I move. With the uncertainty I sold some tools and stored others. Basically I sold anything big, e.g. drill press, stationary disc sander, table saw, dust collector etc, and stored smaller things or things I really didn't want to part with like my midi-lathe. I tried to keep tools that had multiple uses while getting rid of tools that had a very specific seldom used purpose.

I also narrowed my focus, instead of making whatever appealed to me or what I needed furniture wise, I decided to concentrate on smaller items and integrate more hand tools such as planers. I also looked at other ways to do things such as instead of my table saw I will now use a track saw for straight cuts and a router for dadoes/rabbets. Going to the smaller hand tools makes it so I can still do bigger things with a smaller tool footprint. I have been reading the different magazines and looking for the ways to make things portable, collapsible and smaller. I still need to make a small collapsible router table I can store indoors and assemble outside to use and I want to make a collapsing leg assembly table that will double as a game/card/spare table around the home.

It has been a major change in how I do wood working, but it wasn't bad. I feel more streamlined and enjoy the challenge of finding new ways to do things. And honestly, I really don't feel limited. I don't know if this helps at all, I was hoping to give you some insight in the thought process I used to decide what to do with my tools.

[Larry Edgerton]

not Kapeska, Lake Henricks, over on the SD/MN boarder. In 1976 I got my Pontiac reared ended by a Cuda, totaled them both. Those really were the days.

One thought I have kicking around is to find a closed down store in one of the small local towns and just rent it instead of building a shop. Maybe even take on a few projects for the locals.

I really like that idea. A lot of those towns out there are looking a little sad so I would guess that there may be some very cool downtown buildings that could be had for a song. Michigans UP is like that, nice old brick commercial buildings going for 30-40K. Live upstairs, play downstairs. Good suggestion Leigh.

Larry

[Steve Peterson]

You will not be able to get much money for your tools if you try to sell them quickly. At a minimum, I would get some storage on a month to month basis to store the bigger tools until you can properly arrange to sell them.

You will need to decide if it is worth selling them based on your personal situation. It doesn't make much sense to store $5000 worth of tools for 3 years at $200 per month. Take the small high value items like hand planes with you.

Steve

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Lol Leigh, the big radial I do still have is part of the problem! That little green lathe I got from a guy in south dakota might fit under it's outfeed table....

Some background, I farm as most of you know. The place I live is on a piece of leased ground. The lease got terminated so the landlord and I could work through a partnership opportunity as a new entity. That failed as he decided to kick me off so his daughter, not a farmer, and him could take over my farm. Of course that did nothing to bolster good will between us, and I want to be rid of him in my life. I could push the issue and live here longer of course, but I'd rather just move on with my life.

I like the idea of a store to work in. I'll check into that. The probably new house has a 1 car detached, but I could add on a little. Also has a big basement, and storage is pretty close.

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it. This is a new one for me for sure.

[Matt Meiser]

I will say you might be surprised at how fast you can move items at fair (not to say top dollar, but fair to buyer and seller) prices. I was. My dedication to the hobby was waning and I really wasn't keen on a garage or basement shop. Plus, it was starting to get where my shop was my hobby once I finished my last couple big projects so I have no regrets at least yet But of course that will vary for everyone and only you can make that decision for yourself.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Lol Leigh, the big radial I do still have is part of the problem! That little green lathe I got from a guy in south dakota might fit under it's outfeed table....

Some background, I farm as most of you know. The place I live is on a piece of leased ground. The lease got terminated so the landlord and I could work through a partnership opportunity as a new entity. That failed as he decided to kick me off so his daughter, not a farmer, and him could take over my farm. Of course that did nothing to bolster good will between us, and I want to be rid of him in my life. I could push the issue and live here longer of course, but I'd rather just move on with my life.

I like the idea of a store to work in. I'll check into that. The probably new house has a 1 car detached, but I could add on a little. Also has a big basement, and storage is pretty close.

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it. This is a new one for me for sure.

That pretty much blows, Steve. Age-old study in human integrity - you wanna find out what a good friend is really made of, enter a business partnership with them.

Hope this all works out well for you in the end.

[eugene thomas]

I would sell tools as last resort if ya plan to keep woodworking.. I put my tools in storage for almost 2 years while sold my house rented for year and built my new shop. was nice to know that when shop was done had tools to use. As the coast of building sky rocketed would of not had any tools to fill shop for a while... I paid $70 month for 10 x 30 storage unit.

[Jim Becker]

Store them...you'll lose your shirt selling them for what you'll get for them and then having to re-buy later. And doesn't your lease have any provision for how much notice is required to break the lease? It's really not fair that you can get pushed out very quickly with little time to settle your affairs well, even for the property owner to move back in...

BTW, if you do move into town, check and see if there is any empty "retail"/industrial space available that has been sitting for awhile. You might be able to pick up a shop rental for a fraction of what that space might have cost awhile ago. Sam from MiniMax has his shop in a retail area down in Texas, as a matter of fact. Many smaller towns have lost many businesses and that real estate is better being rented for a little than just sitting there...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

That pretty much blows, Steve. Age-old study in human integrity - you wanna find out what a good friend is really made of, enter a business partnership with them.

Hope this all works out well for you in the end.

So true.

On you guys suggestion, I asked our real estate agent about retail or warehouse space possibly for rent, and she really took the ball and ran with it. I think something will work out there, she had a half dozen leads in about 5 mins. When I left her office, she was trying to get me into a beautiful 10,000 sqft climate controlled, old vending company warehouse.... gotta be careful i'm thinking! We have a house under contract now, so perhaps things are moving in the right direction.

[John Sanford]

In Western Nebraska, I suspect that you can find storage space and/or shop space fairly inexpensively. Also, since you have a Felder and likely other pretty pricey tools, the point where storage costs exceed the loss from a quick sale is going to take a while to reach.

here's hoping that the lemons turn into prize winning lemon meringue pie.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Anyone have thought on insurance if I take one of these retail/warehouse spaces? Renters, or something else?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Anyone have thought on insurance if I take one of these retail/warehouse spaces? Renters, or something else?

You need insurance on your stuff - theft, fire, etc.

Someone has to insure the building - gen't liability, fire, etc. - that is part of the negotiations on the lease - either them or you, but has to be done. Also - make sure the lease spells out who pays property taxes, utilities, and maintenance. You don't want to be on the hook for a new roof in week 3, ya' dig?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Makes sense. Was curious if there was a standard used with multi tenant situations, but I think it would have to be a case by case calculation. So many variables.

[Jim Matthews]

+1 on temporary storage in idle space nearby.

It's time to ask for help, publicize your dilemma
and (perhaps - dare I suggest it) cull the herd.

http://www.omahawoodworkers.com/

[Steve Rozmiarek]

+1 on temporary storage in idle space nearby.

It's time to ask for help, publicize your dilemma
and (perhaps - dare I suggest it) cull the herd.

http://www.omahawoodworkers.com/

Cull? I'm not there yet...

Following up on one of the leads led me to the old printing press room of the local newspaper. 50x60, heated, good access, three phase power, a shared restroom with the other tenants of the building, reasonable rent, etc.

All pretty much ideal, except it's 10 blocks from the house. Also it bothers me a bit that one of the doors leads to an old mortuary embalming room, not used for many years. That last thing is purely nonsense I know, but would it bother you?

Also not completely comfortable with the shop costing something every month. A couple projects a year would offset the rent, but then I have to work to justify the space. Maybe that's good, but curious about some feedback on that too.

[Larry Edgerton]

The mortuary thing would not bother me at all, and the building sounds very interesting. 10 blocks is just a short bicycle ride in the warmer months, pull the bike inside and no one knows you are there.

I do this for a living so expense is just part of the deal for me. If you bought a new boat say, you would not have any way to justify the expense. So.... how much do you like woodworking?

I get comments quite often like "You paid 13K for that planer, are you crazy!" I will point out for example that they paid more than that for the pair of snowmobiles that they have in the back yard, with no possible return on their investment. "Ya but"

The tools that you have are first rate and timeless, so now you just have to look at the personal value versus the cost. As an added bonus it gives you a backup way to make a living, not a good one but a living. Its kind of like heating your house with gas and having a wood furnace as backup.;)

Larry

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks Larry, great response. I probably wouldn't hesitate normally, but I think being uprooted and having what seems like everything change all at once has affected my thinking.

Heck, another way to look at it is that I probably spend the rent value on upgrades monthly to make all the other spaces I've worked in fit my needs, this one is pretty much ready.

[Larry Edgerton]

Twice in my life I have had my whole life plan thrown to the wind and had to start over. It is not a good feeling and I can only tell you that as time goes on it will become the past. How that affects you is you're choice. Many give up and that is why bars are always busy, but I have a feeling that we don't have to worry too much about you. Still.... Right now in the here and now, its a bit of an empty feeling I am sure. I'm thinking a shop may do you more good than you know right now.....

I wish you only the best buddy.

Larry

[Jim Becker]

I like Larry's thoughts on this, too...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Rent will probably be less expensive than therapy.....

[Leigh Betsch]

Assuming that the loss of some of your farm land doesn't crash your lifestyle too bad I'd do the rent thing and call it just part of being who you are. Maybe get the kids interested in some kids projects and turn it into an extension of the new in town lifestyle, inclusive of the entire family. My kids are gone now, but my shop was always someplace for me to get away. Now when my kids come home it gets to be some place where the family can hang out. I probobly had it backwards all along, should have made it can all inclusive place. Maybe you an get the kids to have as much fun as fishing! Pic of my kids working on Christmas tree ornaments last Christmas. My only point is you could make the whole deal better than before.

[Jim Matthews]

That last thing is purely nonsense I know, but would it bother you?

Also not completely comfortable with the shop costing something every month. A couple projects a year would offset the rent, but then I have to work to justify the space. Maybe that's good, but curious about some feedback on that too.

Creepy, sure. Maybe you shouldn't watch Vincent Price reruns before you go over to the shop.
How long is the lease? If the price is less than storage, it's a good compromise.
Congrats on finding somewhere you can get into, right away.

What is the insurance provision for your tools?
Does your insurance have a rider for things
kept other than your primary residence?

Best of luck.

[Jim Matthews]

Pic of my kids working on Christmas tree ornaments last Christmas.

Your Christmas tree ornaments come off an Endmill?
I guess you're making heirlooms to last...

I'm jealous of your dogs. They're good looking.
Mine have "character".

We just adopted an Australian Cattle Dog.
I'm pretty sure she's really just a good looking Possum.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Leigh, I like your take. I've done something similar by making my woodshop my haven, but I'd like it to be about my family now too. This whole situation is an opportunity to change a lot, and there is plenty that I'd like to make better. Like Larry mentioned, I'm still in the frazzled stage, not quite sure what all is going to develop, but we need to start some place. I've been woodworking for 30 years now (wow, time flies), so that little piece of consistency might do us all good.

Jim, that was hilarious about your possum dog! The owner says I don't need liability, only contents insurance. I think my homeowner policy will provide that, agent is checking. I'm uneasy about no liability to, so may get that too.

[Jim Becker]

What is the insurance provision for your tools?
Does your insurance have a rider for things
kept other than your primary residence?


Most likely, he'll need a separate renter's type policy given the nature of the gear and it being in a rental space, although that could vary with an individual insurance company.

[Brian Ashton]

probably depends more on your age and financial abilities. If you're older you probably don't want much fuss - the older you are the less you have tolerance for such crap as moving. If you're cashed up then sell them and buy again when you know what you have. If you're a normal human being with little money to spare then you probably should hold on to the tools and see what arises. Try a friend or a few and see if you can drop the gear at their place for a while...

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't want to upgrade anything actually, well except the time I have to use them. Some of this stuff would cost three to four times what I'd get by selling to replace. The leading contender is a big single car garage, but some space to add on. My Felder just plain won't fit until adding on for example.

Steve, unless you take 5 years to find a new place, you'll lose money selling and re-purchasing the machinery you have.............Rod.

[Andrew Joiner]

Also not completely comfortable with the shop costing something every month. A couple projects a year would offset the rent, but then I have to work to justify the space. Maybe that's good, but curious about some feedback on that too.
If you do any woodworking for money I'd get liability insurance too. A lawsuit can be a nightmare.

[Jim Becker]

Liability is necessary even if one isn't doing it for money. For home shops, you're coverage usually comes from your homeowners insurance if you're non-commercial. For folks renting space and needing a separate policy, the primary liability goes on that policy, regardless if it's commercial or personal.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Well, I signed the lease this evening and paid the first months rent and deposit. Guess I have a new woodshop! Forgot to get a picture, maybe tomorrow when I'm moving stuff.

[Leigh Betsch]

Excellent Steve!
Let me know if you need another Radial Arm Saw. My daughter will be going by on her way to CO after thanksgiving, I could strap it on top of her car for you. It's still setting in the same place I unloaded it last summer. What town are you moving to?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Excellent Steve!
Let me know if you need another Radial Arm Saw. My daughter will be going by on her way to CO after thanksgiving, I could strap it on top of her car for you. It's still setting in the same place I unloaded it last summer. What town are you moving to?

LOL, I figured you'd have it better than new by now, it's been months now! ;) We're moving to Chadron. My new shop is behind the local paper office, you'll have to stop in, who knows what I can talk you into taking home this time.... Hey, even better, maybe you can bring one of your planes for me to check out!

[Larry Edgerton]

Well, I signed the lease this evening and paid the first months rent and deposit. Guess I have a new woodshop! Forgot to get a picture, maybe tomorrow when I'm moving stuff.

Very cool! I'm happy for you, but that does not mean we don't want to see pictures..........

Larry

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Very cool! I'm happy for you, but that does not mean we don't want to see pictures..........

Larry

Thanks Larry, I showed my wife this thread when we were discussing the pros and cons of this, your posts really helped the cause. I'll post some pics tonight if today goes according to plan.

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations on your new shop, Steve!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Congratulations on your new shop, Steve!

Thanks Jim! Ok, here are some pics. It's not beautiful, but is space. I like the tall ceilings, high windows and character of the place. Best part is I can just move in and go to work, I don't have to build the shop before I can use it. It's well past needing a bit of cleaning, but it's warm and the lights work well. The radiant heaters burn outside air, it has exhaust fans that ought to help with finishing fumes, and there is a chance I could be building something before the weather warms up this spring. Most of the newspaper stuff is leaving, but I get to keep the cabinets if I want.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DACQo4B5IOA/VHTAO2Hbz2I/AAAAAAAAGWk/uOOMLsWRveY/w983-h553-no/20141125_104257.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RBaquRcSGxo/VHS_vKBZisI/AAAAAAAAGWI/bOLcpnH_-kI/w983-h553-no/20141125_104214.jpg

[Larry Edgerton]

Very exciting space! Has character, the kind that inspires. Its a lot like the commercial building I sold last year. I can see good things physical and mental coming out of that space.

One word of caution. Do not leave wood directly under the radiant tube heater. It will cup in about ten minutes. On the other hand, with a properly placed ladder they make an awesome toaster for your sandwiches.:D

Later, Larry

[Leigh Betsch]

Yeah, a little clean up and that place looks like it will make a great shop.

[Rod Sheridan]

Makes sense. Was curious if there was a standard used with multi tenant situations, but I think it would have to be a case by case calculation. So many variables.

Steve, glad to hear it's moving forward.

You probably need content and general liability insurance, it should be very cost effective............Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Nice space! I love the high ceilings with the exposed structure, too, and that bodes well for your dust collection system as well as ease of putting in power drops where you need them throughout the shop. Nice to have that light pouring in during the day...and if I'm not mistaken, you've got some radiant heat there, too.

If anything, you may need to consider some security precautions with that big overhead door, but wow...did I happen to say, "nice space"??

[Steve Rozmiarek]

There is radiant heat Jim, and it works! It was in the 20's Wednesday when I was moving stuff in, and they kept it toasty, even with the door open. Pretty sure the door you noticed will need some security upgrades like you said. Interesting what Larry said about them cupping wood, will have to be careful for sure.

I guess now that I have a shop, I may open a thread in the appropriate place here to ask a few questions, ie anyone know if printer ink can be painted over easily? See you over there if you are curious.

[Jim Becker]

SW has an amazing (albeit expensive) primer that will overcoat almost anything...so it may be worth purchasing a gallon and trying it over that ink. BIN may also be a solution. I had to use it when I renovated a room in the 250 year old portion of our home...there was "something" on the ceiling that just wouldn't allow paint to adhere properly...and that SW primer did the job. It was recommended by another SMC member who is a pro painter for his "day job".

I really do look forward to seeing how you put your shop together!