MDF and Cabinet questions

[Scott Brandstetter]

I have a couple projects around the house that require me to build quite a few cabinets and wanted to see if I could get some help, opinions. The two projects are the wife's walk in closet and our motorcycle garage......I know, two extremes. Both of the projects will end up being painted and obviously, the wife's closet needs to look nice so I will be adding crown molding, trim, etc but the garage will be very basic. Here is what I am thinking, please tell me if I am going down the wrong road.

1. I plan to use MDF in both projects for the cores
2. I plan to use hard woods for the face frames
3. I plan to use wood glue for the project and a brad nailer to keep together while the glue dries
4. I plan to use hard woods for drawer and door fronts in the closet
5. I plan to use MDF for drawer and door fronts in the garage
6. When I need to use screws in the MDF i plan to pre drill and countersink

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for taking a look

[Steve Baumgartner]

I would not use MDF for the garage. It does not hold up well outdoors.

[Phil Thien]

I would not use MDF for the garage. It does not hold up well outdoors.

I don't think he is building a garage from MDF, but rather an MDF cabinet to go INTO a garage that holds a motorcycle.

But still, if there is any chance of wet floors in this garage, the OP needs to keep the MDF off the floor otherwise the cabinet won't last long.

[Peter Quinn]

MDF costs me $35/sheet. Shop grade plywood costs me $55/sheet. I can make two average cabinets per sheet, so thats $10/cabinet difference. I would not suffer the pain of working with MDF for $10. A look at the sagulator shows MDF can barely hold its own weight over any span let alone hold the weight of your possessions. Speaking of weight, I can actually lift a sheet of plywood....mdf nearly kills me. And get it a little wet....cardboard is more durable. I suggest you build something from each and consider your options carefully. MDF has its place in cabinetry.....door panels, templates, dumpsters....

[Scott Brandstetter]

Thanks for the replies, a couple additions to my OP. The closet will consist of 14 ft of shelves, closet rods, etc on each side. The garage closet (yes, plan to set these on treated wood bases) will be approx 15 ft wide. I am trying to save some money using MDF but don't want to do it at the cost of longevity or quality, especially for the closet. I've used MDF on small things that were more functional than beautiful so this is why I ask for help.

[julian abram]

MDF costs me $35/sheet. Shop grade plywood costs me $55/sheet. I can make two average cabinets per sheet, so thats $10/cabinet difference. I would not suffer the pain of working with MDF for $10. A look at the sagulator shows MDF can barely hold its own weight over any span let alone hold the weight of your possessions. Speaking of weight, I can actually lift a sheet of plywood....mdf nearly kills me. And get it a little wet....cardboard is more durable. I suggest you build something from each and consider your options carefully. MDF has its place in cabinetry.....door panels, templates, dumpsters....

"Door panels, templates & dumpsters" great summary for MDF uses!

[John TenEyck]

For paint grade stuff, MDF works better than most any other substrate so I'd strongly consider it for your wife's cabinet, with a couple of qualifiers. I'd use it as the panels in frame and panel construction. Make the frames from poplar or maple and use 1/2" MDF for the panels. You can glue the MDF in place which makes an exceptional strong assembly. You could do the same for the cabinet in the garage now that I think about it. As long as the MDF is painted and not in direct contact with the floor it will be fine. I would not use MDF for shelves unless they are supported both front and back.

Unlike a lot of folks I like MDF. It's absolutely flat and consistent in thickness, unlike any plywood I can get. It's high on my list for non structural applications that will be veneered or painted and, with a little thought, it can be incorporated in ways that allow it to be used for many structural ones, too.

John

[Larry Fox]

Not a big fan of MDF for anything other than veneer substrate and templates. I guess it would be ok for painted panels - don't know, never tried it. One thing to consider if you do end up using it for cabinets is that it doesn't hold screws well at all. Don't know if that is a factor for you. It also makes a MESS when you are machining it so wear some lung protection.

[scott vroom]

I have a couple projects around the house that require me to build quite a few cabinets and wanted to see if I could get some help, opinions. The two projects are the wife's walk in closet and our motorcycle garage......I know, two extremes. Both of the projects will end up being painted and obviously, the wife's closet needs to look nice so I will be adding crown molding, trim, etc but the garage will be very basic. Here is what I am thinking, please tell me if I am going down the wrong road.

1. I plan to use MDF in both projects for the cores
2. I plan to use hard woods for the face frames
3. I plan to use wood glue for the project and a brad nailer to keep together while the glue dries
4. I plan to use hard woods for drawer and door fronts in the closet
5. I plan to use MDF for drawer and door fronts in the garage
6. When I need to use screws in the MDF i plan to pre drill and countersink

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for taking a look

I'd do it this way, using your list as a guide:

1. Plywood (C2 or better) carcasses (I assume this is what you mean by "cores").
2. Yep
3. Glue and screws to assemble the plywood carcass; glue and brads to attach face frames.
4. Hardwood drawer fronts. If slab doors then hardwood; If frame & panel doors then hardwood rails/stiles & MDF panels
5. See #4
6. Where screws are required I wouldn't even consider MDF; plywood or hardwood only

In other words, I'd consider MDF for door panels only.

[John Huds0n]

MDF costs me $35/sheet. Shop grade plywood costs me $55/sheet. I can make two average cabinets per sheet, so thats $10/cabinet difference. I would not suffer the pain of working with MDF for $10. A look at the sagulator shows MDF can barely hold its own weight over any span let alone hold the weight of your possessions. Speaking of weight, I can actually lift a sheet of plywood....mdf nearly kills me. And get it a little wet....cardboard is more durable. I suggest you build something from each and consider your options carefully. MDF has its place in cabinetry.....door panels, templates, dumpsters....

MDF does have it's place, but I agree that plywood would be better. Since you mentioned you were going to end up painting - I would go one step better and use 3/4" MDO (which runs me right around $60 a sheet)

Once you tried MDO for paint grade sheet goods - you will never go back :)

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for the replies, a couple additions to my OP. The closet will consist of 14 ft of shelves, closet rods, etc on each side. The garage closet (yes, plan to set these on treated wood bases) will be approx 15 ft wide. I am trying to save some money using MDF but don't want to do it at the cost of longevity or quality, especially for the closet. I've used MDF on small things that were more functional than beautiful so this is why I ask for help.

I have MDF cabinets with baltic birch drawer boxes (MDF false fronts) in the shop and they have held up well. I did use rabbets, dados, glue and screws. Non of the cabinets have wide sections that endure stress since MDF has no structure for that application as mentioned. Seeing your designs would probably get you better responses as to suitability. MDF is nasty to work with so you do have your "never" and "sometimes" camps of responses.

Primed and painted, MDF can look quite suitable in the home. For the shop I just sealed it raw. Brads and glue will provide little strength to your construction without some sort of joinery. Otherwise you basically have compressed resin and sawdust panels nailed together. Consider your design and use what's suitable. If painting, mixing MDF and ply on show surfaces can be troublesome.

300014

[Erik Christensen]

Each to his own but I agree with Scott. MDF only for door panels & only if they are flat (shaker style) - if raised, I'd use poplar instead. A 1/2" MDF panel makes the door have nice 'heft' and when paired with soft close hinges lets you just shove it closed and forget it. Painted cases I make with 3/4" baltic birch which I can get in 4x8 sheets - lighter than MDF and much better screw retention. If I am doing all the work, I chose to use the best materials I can find - the parts cost less than a cheap factory equivalent and I have more fun when the final quality is easier to achieve with good materials...

[roger wiegand]

Love using MDO for painted carcases. For natural finish I've been getting pre-finished maple that is also great to work with and saves a ton of boring work. Between the weight, the dust, the inability to hold fasteners, and the weakness of glued joints I avoid MDF like the plague, though I do make bending forms from it and would use it as a veneer substrate. The small price difference just isn't worth the aggravation. I suppose if I were going to make 10,000 cabinets that calculation might be different, but not for one-off projects around the house. I'm slowly replacing the boxes on our MDF kitchen cabinets with plywood as they break or otherwise fall apart. The MDF drawers died in a matter of a couple years, the replacements I made with baltic birch ply are going strong many years later.

[Tony Leonard]

I built a set of cabinets (floor to ceiling) for my garage out of mdf around 15 years ago. They have held up just fine. I have also built several bookshelf units out of mdf and they have held up fine fully loaded. Just beware, it is heavy and very dusty! Also, experiement with the paint. I used latex and it does raise the "grain" a little. MDF would be my first choice for your projects. The local HD sells it as shelving material and that makes it easier to handle and makes for less cuts for me to make.

Wood glue holds mdf very well (I did some experiments). Also, experiment with hole size vs. screw diameter to avoid splitting when screwing into edges.

Tony

[Vince Shriver]

What is MDO?

[Jim Rimmer]

Nasty dust, heavy, tendency to sag, swells when wet - these put me in the group Glenn Bradley described as "never".

[Yonak Hawkins]

Nasty dust, heavy, tendency to sag, swells when wet - these put me in the group Glenn Bradley described as "never".

True. Add to that : The edges are near worthless. You can't put a screw into them and expect it to hold and you can't leave them exposed because you can't finish them.

On the other hand, MDF is stable and will not change dimensionally with environmental conditions (except, of course, as mentioned above, if you expose the edges to constant water). It's easy to work, cuts like butter and will never bend as you push it through a saw blade or chip out, unless you're doing it all wrong. The face takes screws well (not as good as real wood, but good enough to hold a cabinet together - screw your hinges into real wood frames). The face takes paint very well, no sanding necessary (or advisable).

Count me in the category of : I use it all the time, not because it's my favorite material, but I always know it will be an easy operation because I know its limitations and advantages.

[roger wiegand]

What is MDO?

Medium Density Overlay. Usually good quality plywood with a paper surface that is extremely smooth, perfect for painting.

[scott vroom]

Medium Density Overlay. Usually good quality plywood with a paper surface that is extremely smooth, perfect for painting.

I've never used MDO but have read that it has a resin coating heat bonded to the plywood face....no paper face as far as I can tell?

[John Huds0n]

MDO was originally developed for concrete formwork and signs. It has a weather resistant resin overlay that is bonded to exterior grade plywood

The surface is extremely uniform - basically ready for paint. (I also like the way it looks just left alone) Another nice feature unlike most plywood - when cut, there is virtually no tear out (at least in my experience) So although it cost more, you definitely save some time and money by not having to do any prep work getting it ready to paint. Another nice feature - when I buy 3/4" MDO, your actually getting 3/4"! Due to the thickness of the overlay, it is more like .765"

300082

[scott vroom]

MDO was originally developed for concrete formwork and signs. It has a weather resistant resin overlay that is bonded to exterior grade plywood

The surface is extremely uniform - basically ready for paint. (I also like the way it looks just left alone) Another nice feature unlike most plywood - when cut, there is virtually no tear out (at least in my experience) So although it cost more, you definitely save some time and money by not having to do any prep work getting it ready to paint. Another nice feature - when I buy 3/4" MDO, your actually getting 3/4"! Due to the thickness of the overlay, it is more like .765"

300082


John, do you know what grade plywood is typical for MDO?