PM 66 Vs???

[Jesse Busenitz]

I've been looking for a replacement for my delta contractors table saw, looking at SS, Grizzly, and on CL... I'd really like to spring for a SS but I just got a lead on a Powermatic 66 which is a third of the price of a SS..... I really like the way my fingers are attached, and don't care to alter that, but I'm having a hard time making up my mind. Help me!!!

[Rod Sheridan]

Jesse, I know it's a tough decision to spend the money on safety, however the price difference is a drop in the bucket compared to the financial and emotional costs of sawing off a couple of digits.

You would never go without household insurance, why go without personal safety insurance in the form of the SS?

Regards, Rod.

[Keith Hankins]

Tough call. I owned a griz for 10 years and sold it to get the SS ICS. I don't regret it would do it again in a heartbeat. I figure it's my forever saw.

However, your decision on what's best for you is just that... It's for you to decide.

An old PM66 a third of the price would be hard to walk away from. While I think with the safety feature put's the SS way ahead, I'd not fault anyone for getting an older PM66 for that price. They have been a good saw for a long time. I also don't think you would ever ever question the decision to get the SS.

Good luck and post pic's of the new toy. Which ever way you go, you will be stepping up a great bit!

[David Kumm]

Hard to argue with that logic although it implies that you all ready own a highly rated, safe, multiple airbag, great braking, traction control vehicle and any other machine that not only has a greater risk of injuring yourself but of others as well. ( Just venting because I saw a guy hauling a SS on a trailer that shouldn't have been allowed on the road ). Dave

[Doug Ladendorf]

That argument sure has sold a lot of Saw Stops. For those of us who don't have the money in any case to spend on one a PM 66 is a fine cabinet saw. That's where I went and been very happy with it. With regard to safety be sure to use a splitter whenever you can. I bought a Shark Guard for the 66 which works great. It includes three splitters depending on your cut, a blade guard with pawls and dust collection port.

Doug

[roger wiegand]

I put an aftermarket splitter and an overarm guard on my PM66 and I still enjoy using it 20+ years later. With a 50" Bies fence it has met every need I've had. The splitter I got mounts to the trunnion, so tilts with the blade, unlike the splitter that came with the saw. No plans to change now, and so far so good on safety. Not standing in the "throw zone" and keeping hands way away from the blade seems to eliminate a lot of the risk--listening to the little voice that says, wait, this is not really smart, and finding a different way to make the cut. On the safety front I've recently invested in improved fine dust collection and a power feeder for my shaper. Oh yeah, and winter tires for the car, bigger and better fire extinguishers everywhere, and a flu shot. The shaper has always been more scary for me than the table saw.

[Steve Peterson]

A really good price on a PM66 would be hard to pass up. I vote for buying it and using the money you save to buy a dust collector and/or air cleaner. If you decide later that you still want a SS, you should easily be able to sell the PM and get what you paid.

Steve

[Bradley Gray]

I really like my PM66. Not to highjack the thread but Roger - what kind of splitter do you have that tilts with the blade?

[Larry Frank]

Besides the safety issue with the SawStop, it is a very fine, high quality cabinet saw. Knowing what I do, I would not buy a saw without a riving knife.

Yes, it is tough to bite the bullet and spend the bucks for a SawStop but it is the safest saw out there and will last a lifetime.

[Peter Quinn]

I couldn't be happier with my PM66, it s a fine tool for cutting wood. If I were buying a new cabinet saw today, it would be a saw stop. For the difference in cost, its hard ignore the additional safety. Having used both I must say I am confused by the suggestions that the SS is a far superior saw as a cutting tool. I found it about equal to a decent cabinet saw, but not much more than that. Its really all about the break. I also don't believe that amputation is the inevitable consequence of cutting lumber on a traditional cabinet saw. Work safe, pay attention, keep yourself safe. Accidents can happen to anyone, but the likelihood is much higher for those that are tired, distracted, or just plain ignorant. Avoid those things, a traditional cabinet saw can be a safe tool for a lifetime of use. So no easy answer, seem you win either way.

[David Kumm]

Peter, your advice is always top shelf. Dave

[Jesse Busenitz]

Thanks for all the advice so far, It's on CL http://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/4735310931.html for 1000$ and either the guy isn't in a big hurry to sell or someone beat me too it:eek: If I ever connect I'm thinking I'd do like Steve said and buy and later on I can resell... I would like to be able to use a riving knife on it if at all possible. I've never used a riving knife/splitter before but I'd like that to change. PM 66 owners, anything to look out for? I was trying to figure out how old it was with the serial number, but not positive on that. Jess

[Kevin Sweet]

It's a 1993 model. Base on the picture it looks like the fence rails have been removed.

[James Zhu]

Only two pictures, does not show full saw, does not look like the saw is under great care. If money is not the problem, skip it and buy SS.

[Doug Ladendorf]

It's a 1993 model. Base on the picture it looks like the fence rails have been removed.

+1 http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/PowermaticSerialNumbers.ashx

Pictures are not great. Ask about the fence, blade guard and miter gauge. All negotiating points. Also, confirm its single phase. For $1K it should be a nice saw. If it needs a lot of work you can probably do better.

[William C Rogers]

I start out by saying I bought the SawStop. My situation was a little different. I had a 1980s era Jet cabinet saw. It was a fantastic saw I would put up against any PM or Unisaw of that era. However it did not have a riving knife or great dust control. I briefly looked used, but most used saws did not having riving knives and most were a project unless in the $2,000 range. I didn't want a project and if spending that much for used I decided I wanted a new saw. I wanted to look at PM and Delta, but could not find a dealer within 3 hours that had one on display. I was able to see the SawStop. I was also interested in sliders, but could not find one to see. Now the SawStop does not cut wood any better than the Jet. It does have superior dust collection, a riving knife, and the blade break. I don't ever plan on testing the break, but it is there if ever needed. The saw you referenced looks like a project to me. Not sure what a 8" built in scale is and no mention of the fence. No doubt this could be made into a great saw with some $$ adding a riving knife (fence?) and work. It was tough spending for the SawStop, but I can find many ways to justify the expense.

[Jesse Busenitz]

It is single phase. It's in storage but I'm going to look at on Fri.... Doesn't sound like the guy is in a big hurry to sell.

[David Kumm]

Not the best $1000 PM I've seen. Dave

[roger wiegand]

I really like my PM66. Not to highjack the thread but Roger - what kind of splitter do you have that tilts with the blade?

It came from Biesemeyer-- here's a picture: http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/product-finder/biesemeyer-anti-kickback-snap-in-spreader-tablesaw-splitter.aspx

It was a PITA to install, but is extremely easy to use.

[roger wiegand]

Boy, that picture is not confidence inspiring. I've seen a half dozen Unisaws in much better shape on CL over the last year for under $1K. I'd keep looking. You could easily put nearly another $1K into making it useable if it needs a fence and guards.

[Frank Drew]

I also don't believe that amputation is the inevitable consequence of cutting lumber on a traditional cabinet saw. Work safe, pay attention, keep yourself safe. Accidents can happen to anyone, but the likelihood is much higher for those that are tired, distracted, or just plain ignorant. Avoid those things, a traditional cabinet saw can be a safe tool for a lifetime of use.

Totally agree; almost all shop accidents are user errors so do your darndest to avoid those.

[Keith Hankins]

Thanks for all the advice so far, It's on CL http://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/4735310931.html for 1000$ and either the guy isn't in a big hurry to sell or someone beat me too it:eek: If I ever connect I'm thinking I'd do like Steve said and buy and later on I can resell... I would like to be able to use a riving knife on it if at all possible. I've never used a riving knife/splitter before but I'd like that to change. PM 66 owners, anything to look out for? I was trying to figure out how old it was with the serial number, but not positive on that. Jess

One thing I noticed is rust! has this been in use or is it been in storage. 2nd thing I noticed, I did not see a fence. Does it have one? If not, that puts it's price up there. I'd say without a fence and rust, 5-700 max.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Yeah it does appear to have some rust... He said it's in storage, but how long I don't know. As far as fence is it best to go original or can you fit a beismeyer fence on it? This guy must check his email once a day or something......:mad:

[Steve Peterson]

One thing I noticed is rust! has this been in use or is it been in storage. 2nd thing I noticed, I did not see a fence. Does it have one? If not, that puts it's price up there. I'd say without a fence and rust, 5-700 max.

I agree. $1000 is a good price for a clean saw with a fence. It is hard to tell about that saw based on the pictures. Why do they only show a partial image of the saw? Adding a fence is probably going to cost a few hundred. You will have to decide about how deep the rust is and if the rest of the saw is in good enough condition. Other things that affect the price would be 3hp vs 5hp, single phase, and short or long rails. I paid $1400 for mine, but it was clean with 52" rails, a mobile base, and a stack of saw blades (about 2-3 were good ones).

I believe the serial numbers indicate it was made in 1993.

Steve

[Jesse Busenitz]

Ok, I went and looked at the saw this morning and picked it up for 800$. It's been in storage since July and I don't think they put anything on the top to protect it, but it looks like mainly surface rust. Now the good/bad part.... It came with 8' fence rails :eek: and I'm not sure i can finagle that in my shop...... it had out feed tables but they where just mdf top and all I had was my ford ranger, so I took the piece that the fence mounted too... I'll probably end up building completely new.

[Jesse Busenitz]

299883
Here's a Pic .... I'm not sure about the rails. it's 11' from edge to edge 8' to the right and 30" to the left. Anybody else out there have experience with something that wide? I'm sure it'd be nice every once in a while, but it's gonna eat up some room. It definitely won't fit in my 20x22 shop which is just part of a big machine shed, but I'm serious considering moving soon into a substantially bigger building. The top cleaned up quite nice, a few deeper scratches/dings but nothing too major. Oh and the motor cover is gone, who sales replacement parts?

I don't know what happened to my first post today, but it's a ways back up the page???

[Keith Hankins]

Congrats. When you get her cleaned up, post some pic's. I'd get a magnetic base and caliper and check the shaft for runout. Even if bearnings need to be replaced that's pretty easily.

[Bradley Gray]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=281185&d=1391109551

[Jesse Busenitz]

Thanks for the pic Bradley. I think I'll build my own after looking at the price of a new one. This is going to be a tool and not a show piece.

[Jesse Busenitz]

299948

Got a cover......now the rest of my saw looks.... drab.

[CPeter James]

That saw has a stud on the trunnion right behind the blade. It is where the factory splitter/blade guard mounted. That stud is adjustable right to left and makes a perfect place to mount a splitter. I make my own from oak .005" thicker than the blade I am using, .130 for 1/8" thick blade. It is exactly centered on the blade and pushes the wood into fence when ripping and keeps the wood off the rear of the blade to prevent burning and scratching the surface of the cut. I have been using this system for 10 years and had great results with it. If you need to make a blind cut, you can remove the splitter in a matter of seconds. I have mine installed with a wing nut.

CPeter

[Larry Edgerton]

Hard to argue with that logic although it implies that you all ready own a highly rated, safe, multiple airbag, great braking, traction control vehicle and any other machine that not only has a greater risk of injuring yourself but of others as well. ( Just venting because I saw a guy hauling a SS on a trailer that shouldn't have been allowed on the road ). Dave

Just drove home from a job downstate, and every car in the ditch[snowing] was a newer car with all the assistance, and most were four wheel drive. Operator error seems to be more of the issue....

Larry

[David Kumm]

Larry, there is no doubt the herd's survival skills have been dulled. Dave