Time to upgrade lathes Recomendations ???

[Jeremy Killingbeck]

So I think it is finally time to upgrade from my mini lathe. I currently have the harbor freight 10" min Jet clone. I have started doing some bowel turning & the lathe just does not seem to have enough power to keep up. What would you guys recommend as a good next step. I have been looking at a Nova 16-44 on CL, but the guy is asking $1,250 with some outrigger accessory & nova chuck (price seems a little high), but is that a good lathe for a next step? I was also looking at the Grizzly lathes (G0462, G0632, G0733). I would really like to stay at or less than $1,000, But I also don't want to get something that I will want to upgrade in a few years. I would appreciate any help or recommendations that you guys have.

[Thom Sturgill]

Good luck! Coming from a 10" lathe a 12" such as the Jet 1221 would be a good upgrade for well under $1000, but dollars to doughnuts you will want to upgrade in a couple of years. If you can go a bit more ($1500) the Grizzly G0632 (Jet 1642 clone?) looks good and you might find a used one for under $1000. The Jet 1440 (bench mount) and Nova 1624 sell for under $1000 at Woodcraft. A friend of mine who turns sitting has two of the 1440s because he likes the swivel head and the Nova seems well liked.

[Larry Matchett]

If you are wanting to do larger pieces such as bowls etc then consider upgrading to the Jet 1644 or some thing comparable. Variable speed is almost a necessity. That is probably double you budget but you won't have to upgrade in a couple of years either. After that your next upgrade will be in the neighborhood of 4 g's and up. Good Luck.

[Dan Masshardt]

I have the jet 1221 and it is a good lathe for everything up to bowls at its 12" capacity

I will get a larger capacity lathe eventually though probably

I'd look at the nova DVR...it goes on sale at woodcraft a couple times a year

[roger oldre]

just a question. Who is the actual manufacturer of these lines? like central machinery, jet grizzly etc. I have heard the stories about knockoffs. It looks more to me that these are the same machines in diferent paint. I have taken both a jet and a cm wood lathe apart and physically see no difference in the parts I even ordered replacement parts from central to repair the jet mini and they are still running today. seems that the same troubles arise with the same types of lathes. What is really wrong about HF's wood lathe accept one cant brag about how much they spent on it.

[Jeremy Killingbeck]

I have noticed with my harbor freight lathe that the fit and finish is not as nice as the jet. The knobs are cheaper and some parts are not built as robust. But for the most part the lathe has worked very well for me. If all I was doing was pens I would not have a reason to upgrade. But the 1/2 hp motor and 10" swing does not keep up on bowl turning. It does not take much for me to stall out the motor. On one bowl I made I ended up overheating the motor and had to wait for the thermal breaker to reset. But like I said for the price (I think I paid $150; Less than half the cost of a jet) it has served me well.

[John Keeton]

Roger, while parts may appear identical, it is not uncommon that one importer may require specs/tolerances that are tighter than another. Then, there is the warranty issue. Jet does have a 5 year warranty. I have several Grizzly machines and am pleased with them, and I started out on a HF lathe, so I am not adverse to other brands. There are a lot of considerations in buying a lathe. It is a difficult choice and some factors are more important to some than to others.

Having gone thru two upgrades before settling on the Jet 1642, I would advise one to wait until the budget will permit buying a lathe that will meet long term needs.

[Dan Masshardt]

There is nothing out there that looks like new jet lathes.

I suspect that lathes being copied / cloned is more likely than the same lathe being painted different colors.

Also, quality control, tolerances and materials make a big difference, as John mentioned.

[Bill Bulloch]

I'm with John, wait until you can afford what you really want. I started with a 10", then moved up to a 12" and now have a 1642 that I am happy with, but if Robust had a credit plan I'd be driving one of those.

[Thom Sturgill]

My understanding on the clones was that the named brands typically only have QA on site one shift. Since foundries have to run 24 hrs for economic reasons, they produce off brand castings on the off hours often using the same moulds. Stress relief of cast iron is another expense that can be done well or cheaply.

The bearings are standard and often moderate quality depending on price range. The real differences show up in fit and finish, motor and controls, etc. Even on a given brand they vary considerably, looking at the Jet 1014, 1221, and 1642 side by side and you will see a lot of difference besides just size of the machine. The larger size (and price) allows for better machining of the ways for example. Everything on their big brother the PowerMatic just works better, IMHO. The improvement from the Jet 1642 is not just size and weight, but better (sealed) bearings, bigger motor, and better machining, etc.

[Robert Henrickson]

Having gone thru two upgrades before settling on the Jet 1642, I would advise one to wait until the budget will permit buying a lathe that will meet long term needs.

I would second this recommendation. Above all figure out where you think you want to go with your turning and upgrade accordingly, not that you necessarily will go in those directions. Depending on how your interests change, you may find your replacement limits your possibilities.

I started with a 10" swing Jet mini, which I still have since I never got around to trying to sell it. I now use it for demos when I have to supply a lathe.

This past weekend I did a demo at the local Woodcraft, working on a Jet 1221; I have used it there for several demos. Last Saturday I was turning plates 6-11" in diameter; in previous demos I have used it to turn spindles up to 14" long. It is a very nice machine, but it is not that significant an upgrade in capacity (swing or length) over a mini. E.g., to turn something much longer than a *finished* 16-17" long, a bed extension would be needed -- another $200, and lengthened support for that. Work is easier when you are not working close the limits of the particular lathe. In turning the plates, I was able to do 11", but the banjo will not slide under edge of a piece even 10" in diameter -- each time I moved from one face to the other, I had to back off the tailstock, remove the chuck from the headstock, reposition the banjo, put the chuck back on the headstock, and bring up the tailstock. Many of the plates types I turn require working alternately on one face then the other. Inconvenient but not prohibitive. As it was, in the demo I ended up reducing the diameter of plates to where they would just allow the banjo to slide under their lower edge (just over 9 1/4") -- it was more convenient. The swing is measured over the bed, not the top of the banjo.

Unless you plan to turn bowls and spindles only somewhat larger than you are currently, I would suggest you wait until you have the budget for a larger lathe. I turn primarily on a Jet 1642 which I have had for ca 7 years, and have been happy with. As my interests have varied, I have been able to turn chair legs up to 33" long, and bowls/plates approaching 16" diameter, not that I do either that often. I like the 1642, but other people like lathes of similar capacities from other manufacturers.

[Robert Willing]

This is how I up-graded:

Started with Nova Mercury which is not manufactured any more, 2003 demo from Woodcraft. Not enough power

General International model 25-114, 2011 from Woodcraft. Problem with electronics

Nova 1624, 2012 on sale at Woodcraft $899.99 I did not like changing pulleys and belt to change speed

DVR up grade for 1624, 2013 Nova online $899.00

So you can see we are never satisfied so shop around save your money and go bigger.

[Jeremy Killingbeck]

So what is a reasonable price for a 5 year old Nova 1624-44? The lathe comes with the outrigger attachments, 3 tool rest, Titan chuck, and 6 chuck jaws.

[John Keeton]

If you do a Google search like this - "Nova 1624-44 site:craigslist.org" (no quotes) - you will get all the Novas on CL nationwide. That should give you a nice range of pricing. Then, you can decide what the chuck and rests are worth - probably somewhere around half their retail IMO.

[Michael Mills]

JMO but I agree with about 50% retail.
I have the 1624, which I like, and do not anticipate "moving up". The main move up would be to electronic speed. I never change speeds on spindles and usually only once for bowls/platters so the minute to move the belt is no problem for me. I realize how nice it is to fine adjust by a knob, just not worth the extra 1000 to me. Of course I spent a lot of that on chucks and jaws over the years.:)
There may be some increase in hp with an upgrade if you go to 220. At 110 the hp is the same as the Jet upgrade or the Nova upgrade gives you 1/4 Hp more.
Weight is more with the upgrades but then again, ballast is cheap.
So ... lathe on sale with warranty 1,000, chuck and jaws $450, outrigger 300, toolrest?
New retail about 1750 used about 850. At least a good starting point.
I purchased the outrigger when I purchased mine and never used it except to hold the knockout bar. It may be worth it to you or not. I sold mine last year for $200 ($100 loss) so if you get the package at a good deal (Your 1,000 budget) and sell the outrigger that would be pretty nice.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO, variable speed is a tremendous asset, if you're planning to turn bowls. For both roughing and sanding. Being able to change speeds at will, is very nice.
Does the lathe come with tools? I'm surprised he says it comes with chuck and rests as well as an outrigger, but not any tools. Reason I'm mentioning it, tools are probably the biggest part of the budget, if that lathe came with a handful of tools, that could tip the scales to a worthy buy vice just an all right deal.

[roger oldre]

I knowthat fit and finish means quite a bit to some people, but it doesn't make one a better craftsman. There is an issue with something underpowered. I have turned on some pretty wild set ups! Ive been told that some things aren't possible and then turned them anyways. I build equipment from scratch quite often. often for a particular operation. I have a hard time justifying the price on a piece of equipment, of course I have a hard time justifying the price for toys too. I cant see paying twice to four times the price for something that will provide the same results. if things fall off or break more easily ok I understand but I think much of what is said is hearsay justified by what others think is common sense. I know they dont switch from poor material for night shift, and the plugs for the castings don't change from one to the next. Neither do I think they would rearrange the material flow to shorten or lengthen the process to make an inferior product on purpose. I can believe that they may be seconds rather than prime parts intended to redeem costs involved but find it hard to believe that a company would intentionaly sabotage their production to make sub standard equipment. Look at Fridgidair, white goods, Kelvinator, electrolux, and the line handled by best buy. All the same manufacturer with a different label on the outside, but yet people will say that one is better than the next. Still the question stands "who manufactures the different lathes" I know that there are some brands with plastic handles and others with metal ones...worth the difference in price? I'll buy the cheap one and replace the handle I guess.

[Thom Sturgill]

Roger, I have to go by what I have seen. Pouring the casting is only the first step and is not all that determines the quality of the final part. Stress relieving is done separately, probably by the client and may involve leaving the part outside to acclimate for long periods and then heat treating. Then there is the machining to create finished surfaces and so forth. Just because two castings look identical and may have come from the same foundry does not mean they are of equal finished quality, and definitely does not relate to the quality of the finished machine. 'Fit and finish' (and I'm NOT talking about the paint job) are a better indication of the care and quality of the machine, but that can fool you too.

Doug Thompson talked in a recent video about a competitor using 'zone hardening' which only hardens the last inch or so of the tool. This is much cheaper than full oven hardening. A manufacturer *often* makes these kind of short cuts in order to keep his pricing competitive while keeping his profit margin up. Short sighted? probably, but it is still common, especially if it is easy to make the item appear ('fit and finish' again) to be top quality. Zone hardening is commonly done on saw blades and is beneficial to bandsaw blades which need a softer back, but not to fine handsaw blades which need a stiff backplate and may be re-sharpened many times over multiple lifetimes. Zone hardening leaves tell-tale coloring on saw blades, but this can be removed in the tempering process.