Empire State Saw

[Roger Rettenmeier]

I recently picked up a few saws. I noticed an etch on one of the saws under the surface rust. It turns out to be a Moore Brothers Empire State Saw. The plate is pretty full, about like a no 7 disston. The steel seems good. Anyone know much about these saws? It is a common 8ppi, 26 in crosscut saw.

[William Huver]

I am also interested in any information on Moore Brothers.

I've been searching for information off and on now for a couple of months, but have found very little. I did see a few pictures of these saws for sale, and a comment somewhere that they were "one of the best regional saw makers" that person had found. I've seen two styles of etch, one of which read Jessop and Sons steel.

I have, I believe, three Moore Bros saws, but only one of them has a decent etch. It is a 22" 9tpi crosscut, tapered plate, WS medallion. The beech handle seems a little on the small side for a 4" hand, but the wheat carving is nicely done. There are actually two etches - "Moore Bros, Empire State Saw Works, Jamestown NY, Made From, XX, Refined Steel, Fully Warranted", and close to the handle, "Trademark, Carpenter's, Delight, Made From, XX, Refined Steel, Moore Bros" How's the etch on yours, Roger?

I wish I could tell you how well they cut, but I set them aside and haven't sharpened them yet.

Regards,
Bill

[Andrae Covington]

From this it looks like the company started in 1868 and were still around in the 19-teens.

Building Age, Volume 36
August, 1914

Some interesting information relative to the leading lines of saws and files made by Moore Brothers Jamestown NY is contained in a 44 page catalogue which is being distributed among the trade Special attention is called to the makers XX hand edge taper files which are made from the highest grade of steel and produced on machines operated by practical file makers Special stress is laid upon the durability of these files and to the satisfaction which they give wherever introduced The greater portion of the catalogue is devoted to the various lines of saws turned out by Moore Brothers who have had 46 years experience as saw and file makers In connection with the various illustrations is brief descriptive matter together with sizes prices etc Not the least interesting feature of the catalogue are the testimonial letters from some of the many who have handled and used saws and files of this concern the list representing a wide range of territory.

[Roger Rettenmeier]

The etch is faint, and I raised it about as much as possible. It looks like "Moore Bros, Empire State Saw Works", "Jamestown, New" (york) york is faded. "made from Special (steel)?". "Patent Ground Furnace Bottom Temper". I can make out enough of "furnace bottom temper" to hazard a guess on that one.
The saw has excellent spring, and slightly breasted. My handle looks like a replacement it has an extra hole in the plate. The teeth are uniform, should not take but one or two passes with a file to bring it around.

[William Huver]

Roger,

I just finished polishing up the 2nd of the three saws I noted above. It polished up beautifully, and I am now getting ready to put new finish on the handle, as the old finish dusted off. When this happens, I stain the handles red (Victorian Mahogany) in order to visually identify that these were handed down to me by my father this past year. I believe this one was my great grandfather's, who was a joiner in the late 1800s/early 1900s, but I'm not totally sure since my grandfather passed away in '72, and my father became a power tool only type of guy.

Anyway, this saw is 26" 7tpi crosscut w/ a straight tooth line (it was sharpened in the '90s, I think, and with too much set) and is still sharp, as it has not been used since sharpening. It has a straight back w/ nib, tapered plate, WS medallion, and 3 brass screws. The etch is very light, but if I stand on my head and hold it just right, I can read it. :) It reads very much like your saw: "Moore Bros", "Empire State ___ Works", "Jamestown NY", "Made ___" (From?), "Special Steel", "Patent Ground Furnace Bottom Temper".

Here are pictures of the two saws. The etch didn't show up very well on the 2nd saw, and not at all on the 1st saw with my camera. Does your handle look anything like these examples?

299434 299429


Andrae, thanks for the historical information. Very interesting!

Regards,
Bill

[Roger Rettenmeier]

299438299439 Here are a couple of pics of my saw. I used the same trick you did to get the right light for the etch... My handle is a blocky 4 finger hole from a later saw. Might/ might not be the original handle.

[Roger Rettenmeier]

That is good information. I wonder if they were ultimately taken over by the National Saw Company. I am looking for more information on that..

[William Huver]

Hey Roger,

I'm not sure what more you have learned since Monday, but here is some information I found recently:

This first pic is not about the saws we're looking at in this thread, but one that I thought you might enjoy -
299813

This link talks about an EC Atkins buyout of Moore Bros., but has no cited references -

http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/archives_handtools.pl/bid/3104/md/read/id/36691/sbj/phenix-saw-ever-heard-of/

Here's an interesting advertisement from 1914 -

299814

Here's a pic showing a relationship between Moore Bros. and Jessop and Sons steel -

299815

The last two pics are from newspapers. I tried to find anything with the latest dates I could. The first pic is a 1930 list of companies and payment amounts with the Jamestown Electric Light Fund. The second pic is a 1948 advertisement for Filegars Saw service saying "leave and call for your saws at Moore Bros.". I would note though, that the address is different than the one I found in a 1905-06 directory, which was 11-13 East 1st St. That directory also listed the proprietor as Fred D. Moore and another line for son, Fred Moore Jr., salesman.

299816 299817


Hope this information is useful to you.

Regards,
Bill