Mortice chisels, Fujikawa or Narex ?

[Matthew N. Masail]

I need two mortising chisels, my bench chisels are AI, beautifully slim and lightly tapered they are a pleasure to use, but they are not usable for light mortising like a heavier modern bench chisel would be.

I was going to just get Narex, but then I saw these, they look... comfortable.
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=312_553_559&products_id=1770

I work mostly in metric so the plan is to get a 6mm and a 10mm. for only 2 chisels I think it might be worth the extra cost, even if I need to save up for it. could there be an isuue with chipping on the Japanese requiring heavy manual grinding? anything I need to know about Japanese mortise chisels?


Mu goal is to get tools that feel correctly shaped and made for the job, like the slim bench chisels are just so much nicer to use then thick bench chisels.

Ray Ills are too pricy for me, and I think they might be too heavy duty, I'm looking for something in the middle range of stout.

maybe these would make good mortise chisels ?
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=312_553_556_563

[Jim Matthews]

I've got the Narex.

The steel is excellent.
I've had the Japanese versions,
and found the hoops coarse.

Is there a price difference, where you take delivery?

[Tom Vanzant]

I have Narex 1/4 & 3/8 from Lee Valley. 6mm & 10mm Narex are available from Highland WW.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I can get Narex in Israel, about 22$ a chisel. other options would be more than double. I have a 1\2" Narex and really like the steel. it work perfectly. but I don't find it very comfortable in use, and that means a lot. if the steel and care of a Japanese is about the same than it's about the feel. any comments?

[Curt Putnam]

I bought the Narex set. The steel is great and the handles are - well they are there. My hands are quite large and I find them to be quite comfortable. If you are happy with the idea of shaping the Narex handles to something that you would like, the Narex could be a great option.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Curt, that's how I feel. I don't own a lath so handle re-shaping is in the not so near future. the Fujikawa seem low stout and balanced, I don't know why but they look like they'd be comfortable to use. still hoping someone might have a comment about Japanese mortise chisels.

[Terry Beadle]

I have several Japanese mortising chisels. They really keep their edge. Especially good in red oak.

They cost a little more but you don't need more than 2 ~ 3 for most furniture building. I use them with no micro bevel and find them easy to maintain.

I have Narex bench chisels and found them to be a great bargain. When it comes to mortising, I think of using the Japanese chisels before thinking of
using the Narex or my AI's unless the mortise is less than 3/8ths. At 3/8ths, it's a toss up.

I bought the following from Highland Hardware : http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/iyoroi-mortise-chisel.aspx at a little over $50 now.
The others were brought back from Japan by my younger son when he was living in Japan teaching english in schools. They are used chisels
of varying ages and are still as good as they were new IMO.

Either of your choices are good ones in my opinion.

I do recommend a bottom cleaning Japanese chisel if you are doing a lot of mortising work. Very handy and makes good flat bottoms.

Enjoy the shavings !

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

I have one of those HSS Japanese chisels. Stu sent it to me to try out a while ago. That is the toughest steel I have ever come across. Unless you have diamonds and lots of patience, sharpening one will drive you to drink!

It is not a mortice chisel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

sharpening one will drive you to drink!

Sounds enjoyable :p

[Matthew N. Masail]

Lol, thanks guy. still not sure what to do but I'm leaning towards the Japanese, or LN, don't think I can live with the narex handles.

[David Weaver]

I use Japanese chisels for mortises right now, but they are Miyanaga and would be different than most of the white 2 offerings. I like them for cabinet sized mortise, but I can get along with anything that is a true mortise chisel and that has a tapered cross section.

The key with all mortise chisels is to find the lowest angle that they don't chip. Cheap chisels are within 5 degrees of expensive chisels. As long as you're not twisting or prying uncut material, they all hold up well. If you abuse them twisting or scraping, none do. I spend about 10 seconds on a finish stone between each mortise and never sharpen the Miyanaga chisels other than that. I'd prefer they stay sharp, too.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I use Japanese chisels for mortises right now, but they are Miyanaga and would be different than most of the white 2 offerings. I like them for cabinet sized mortise, but I can get along with anything that is a true mortise chisel and that has a tapered cross section.

The key with all mortise chisels is to find the lowest angle that they don't chip. Cheap chisels are within 5 degrees of expensive chisels. As long as you're not twisting or prying uncut material, they all hold up well. If you abuse them twisting or scraping, none do. I spend about 10 seconds on a finish stone between each mortise and never sharpen the Miyanaga chisels other than that. I'd prefer they stay sharp, too.

Do you use a single flat bevel on the Japanese mortise chisels? or a 20-25 degree main and a 35 or so secondary? what happens if it does chip? because you can't grind it.

[David Weaver]

I have one of the chisels Derek mentioned above, too. I think you could pare mild steel with them, and they sharpen like any other chisel as long as you use diamonds.

No clue how they do for fine work, though (as in how they hold a shaving edge).

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi again Matthew,
If you want real mortise chisels check out the Koyamaichi chisels>Koyamaichi motising chisels on TFJ. You will find many positive reviews of these chisels on SMC and they are substantially more economical that the HSS Fujikawas. The HSS chisels may require a much more advanced sharpening medium/system to maintain (diamonds, CBN, Sigma Select II's..) which you may or may not have. TFJ also offers Fujikawa regular mortising chisels under Fujikawa Chisels but they were so close in price to the Koyamaichis that I spent the small extra money to get the more refined chisels. Also the mortise chisels are available in a little different sizes. I bought the 4.5 and 7.5mm chisels.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Mike, (-:
the Koyamaichi's look nice, but the Fujikawas regular have that cool square bolster. according to TFJ the Koyomaichi's are more 'user friendly' ? But I really like the look of the Fujikawa, and can't imagine needing to go any deeper than the blade is long.

[David Weaver]

Single flat grind. If they chip, crystolon removes material fast. Once you have your setup dialed in, they don't chip, though.

[Jim Matthews]

but I don't find it very comfortable in use, and that means a lot. if the steel and care of a Japanese is about the same than it's about the feel. any comments?

I'm with you.
Pointless to own a tool you don't like to handle.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Completely. I sold a set of 4 Koyomaichi bench chisels because I found that I much prefer the feel of longer thinner western chisels. they were high quality chisels but I just never used them because I didn't like how they felt. they were my first set (!) I figured I'd buy once and buy something good. little did I know what to look for.

[Mike Holbrook]

Matthew,
I think that early in the game one learns to like a specific style feel that is part personal preference and part personal experience. I think it is worth noting that Japanese chisels come in a much greater variety of styles that western chisels. The Japanese, for instance, make several varieties of paring<>slick chisels that do not have the metal rings on the ends. The Japanese paring chisels are designed to be used by hand where the chisels with the metal hoops are designed to be struck with a hammer or mallet. The hoops, that may not feel quite as comfortable for hand work, are very helpful if you should decide to use one of the large selection of Japanese metal hammers or wooden mallets. I have a couple sets of chisels designed to be struck with hammers and mallets and others designed to be used with hand pressure only.

Particularly in the case of a mortice chisel, I think it is convenient to have a handle designed so that it can be struck repeatedly with a small metal hammer. I don't find the hoops objectionable, in fact I find them convenient, particularly when I want to position my hand out of harms way before I strike the chisel. I don't even mind the feel for hand work even though I have chisels designed for hand work.

It may be advisable to give some consideration to the various techniques you may want to employ before deciding on specific chisel designs. Specifically, will you want to strike the mortice chisel and if so with what. Metal hammers may need chisels with hoops.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Mike, That is one of the reasons I'm looking into Japanese for mortise chisels, the handles hoops and size. what I didn't like about my set was mostly how thick they were and how short. I like longer western chisels for hand work. for mortising I think the shortness will be preferred. Agreed it's personal and might even change as one developes.