Mike Lassiter
10-30-2014, 11:42 AM
I will try to condense this. I have been working on a 93 Clayton single wide mobile home since March. Long story, but among the many things I have had to do, or doing I am replacing all the old gray water lines in it. I have had the crimping tools for years for replacing PEX fittings as I have had to do things occasionally over the years. I have had to replace most of the flooring around the outside walls due to rot from multiple issues, and the master bath tub was cracked and leaked underneath and rotted the flooring and part of a floor joist due to leaking against the back side and the water ran under the tub and down into the belly area and under the mobile home. New floor and new regular house type tub with surround installed. Some of the lines now ran inside walls with pex and copper elbow stubouts for the water cutoff valves similar to regular houses instead of running the water lines through the floor. Several reason for this, but anyway I wanted to pressure test all the connections in the master bathroom before covering the walls with sheetrock. Bought fittings to test everything and installed test apparatus with pressure gauge and ball valve cutoff. When I turned the water on the pressure test - the gauge (100 psi) went to about 105 psi. Now this explains why over the years the valve in the master bath tub spout would keep blowing out the seal when wanting to use the shower. I even replaced the complete faucet once, because we couldn't get the blown out seal back in and couldn't get another one to fit the mobile home faucet set.
Anyway, my wife just happens to be the office manager for the local water department. She told me "they" were installing regulators on customers meters to lower the pressure. Some were having high pressure problems. Head of the utilities also confirmed this. So we requested one be installed. The next day the guys came out and installed it. I still had my pressure test apparatus connected to the hot/cold lines under the floor in the master bathroom. After they left I went and checked it. Hate to say this, but the test fittings had a couple of seeps due to black and galvanized fittings having to be combined and not enough Teflon tape I guess, so the gauge was showing 70 something psi after 2 days with the cutoff valve shut off. When the guys were installing the regulator I ask them about it, and told it is adjustable from about 20-70 max and set at 50 psi they thought. Well as I turned the ball valve back on the pressure rises back to over 100 psi again.
Sort of pissed now. They didn't check the pressure after installing it, they just got in the truck and left. So I flog my wife and bosses about it all. This was 10-22 and I decided to adjust it myself Sunday 10-26. Wife crawled under the floor and watched the gauge while I attempted to adjust the regulator. First I loosen the jamb nut and back the adjusting bolt out about 1-1/2 turns after the wife turned on the ball valve on the test apparatus and said the pressure was just below 100 psi. Regulator again suppose to be factory set at 50 per installing crew. I realized this regulator cannot vent excess pressure like an air pressure regulator so I go inside and turn on the water in the kitchen sink some to get a flow. Turn it off and wife said gauge dropped to about 35 psi with flow, and showing about 40 no flow. Go to regulator and turn the adjusting screw 1/2 turn in. Wife says now showing 50 psi. Turn water in kitchen sink back on for flow and again dropped to 35 psi. Back to regulator and turn adjusting screw another 1/2 turn in. Now reading 60 psi, and dropped to 40 with flow. As I walked out of the front door and we are discussing this I tell her I think the regulator is bad. I cannot see it dropping 20 psi from just cracking the one valve to get a flow. As we are talking she says the gauge is now back on 90 psi. OK, I'd done the regulator has to be bad.
There was a couple of emails to her, and the General Manager, and Assistant General Manager about this and why the guys that installed it didn't check it afterwards or they didn't check to make sure the regulator was functioning right before burying it into the ground. Wife aggravated at me for "going over her head" but not my intentions so much. Anyway 10-28 two different water department guys arrive while I am under the floor working on replacing water lines. I had to come out to go inside for something and walked to the road to talk to them. Both laying on their stomachs on the ground looking down in the large meter box type cover put over the regulator. One told me they were told to come out and look at the regulator and make sure it wasn't installed backwards. They were looking for the direction of flow arrow on the body of the regulator. As it was mostly covered in dirt they were going to have to do some digging and try to rotate it to see which direction the flow arrow was pointing.
At first I though the "experts" installing it backwards, and both crews telling me they never verified the pressure after a regulator was installed. What a crook of crap! Just put in a part and call it good without knowing?? That I happen to have a pressure gauge testing MY work was how this all come about. Then find after installing the regulator still having the same pressure? Then I am thinking about it as I went back under the floor working. If it WAS backwards, how did the pressure drop when I backed the adjusting screw out. I don't see how it could be lowered if installed backwards, but especially that the pressure again rose to the system pressure and would not stay at the set pressure to me indicated the regulator HAD to be bad. I didn't consider being installed backwards.
Anyway, later one of the men comes and ask me if I got a pressure gauge, theirs is broken! They had to install another regulator somewhere else that morning and had to go to the local Ace Hardware store and get it. So, why didn't they get a gauge while they are there? I ask them!! "we don't check them after we install them, someone else comes out and does that." WTH?? SOMEONE ELSE DOES THAT!! Send out someone else when there are already 2 men here?? Really? Yes, I have a gauge and we took my gauge out of my test rig. Well he didn't know if he had anything to test with. Dug around in the toolboxes and found the water hydrant adapter finally with the broken gauge and we swapped and installed my gauge and hooked it to the outside water hydrant on the back side of the mobile home.
Now understand, he told me the regulator was installed correctly. He had backed off the adjusting screw about 2-1/2 rounds and wanted to see what it did. OK, I did this Sunday already, and the gauge wouldn't maintain pressure. You didn't do anything to it (so he said) and I am extremely skeptical to see anything other than what I have already saw for several days since the regulator was installed. So One man at the water meter and regulator, the other standing at the front and I at the back watching the gauge. Turn on the water and - 40 psi steady. turned the water on in the kitchen sink again and it dropped to around 30. We increased the adjustment about 1/4 turn at a time until he said there was about 52 psi dropping to about 45 with the sink faucet cracked. Watched the gauge (the same gauge that showed the pressure rising to around 100 a couple of days before) and it held stead. I ask again, "what did you do to it, you said it wasn't installed backwards?" and he repeated they hadn't done anything to it, just loosened the adjusting screw about 2-1/2 turns where I did 1-1/2 then ran it back in a turn.
Something smells about this to me. I didn't watch them, but they had time to replace the regulator, but claimed they didn't have one when they got there. If it was bad, they were going to have to go back to Ace Hardware (about 25 mile round trip) and get one. So for over a week the regulator would not limit max pressure and I did adjust it and see it lower the pressure but not continue to hold the lower pressure. Bad regulator right?? Yet up till they got into the truck to leave, they maintained they didn't do anything to it. I looked and saw they had dug dirt out from around it, but attribute that to turning it to see the direction of flow arrow on the body. As I said they were there well long enough that they could have swapped it, except they claimed they didn't have one before they had checked to see if the one installed was installed correctly.
Yesterday I had to go to Home Depot which is about a 60 mile roundtrip for me. I got the water hydrant adapter and another gauge and put it one the water hydrant yesterday afternoon - 2 days after the guys were out looking at it and when I turned on the hydrant the gauge shows 50 psi no flow.
I have a "little" experience with regulators and plumbing (I have a plumbers license) and don't see being able to change the pressure with the flow going the wrong way, which I was able to do, and that the pressure continued to rise to whatever the system pressure was means the regulator cannot regulate the maximum pressure, which was the sole reason it was installed.
I think they told me a "story" First thing is one of their own installed it originally, so it makes the department look bad if it was installed wrong. They were sent out to check that (someone told them specifically to check that the regulator was installed right - seems like this has happened before but since nobody checks the pressure after installing one I am not sure how they would know that) The toilet and sinks are still connected and have been used daily. The regulator is installed immediately past the water meter, so the water was cut off at the meter and the line cut to install the regulator, then the water turned back on. I never got a pressure reading below 95 psi after the regulator was originally installed and even after I attempted adjusting it, it rose back up to that pressure which to my mind means the regulator cannot regulate.
Sorry for so much, but trying to lay it all out for accurate evaluations. What do you think?
Anyway, my wife just happens to be the office manager for the local water department. She told me "they" were installing regulators on customers meters to lower the pressure. Some were having high pressure problems. Head of the utilities also confirmed this. So we requested one be installed. The next day the guys came out and installed it. I still had my pressure test apparatus connected to the hot/cold lines under the floor in the master bathroom. After they left I went and checked it. Hate to say this, but the test fittings had a couple of seeps due to black and galvanized fittings having to be combined and not enough Teflon tape I guess, so the gauge was showing 70 something psi after 2 days with the cutoff valve shut off. When the guys were installing the regulator I ask them about it, and told it is adjustable from about 20-70 max and set at 50 psi they thought. Well as I turned the ball valve back on the pressure rises back to over 100 psi again.
Sort of pissed now. They didn't check the pressure after installing it, they just got in the truck and left. So I flog my wife and bosses about it all. This was 10-22 and I decided to adjust it myself Sunday 10-26. Wife crawled under the floor and watched the gauge while I attempted to adjust the regulator. First I loosen the jamb nut and back the adjusting bolt out about 1-1/2 turns after the wife turned on the ball valve on the test apparatus and said the pressure was just below 100 psi. Regulator again suppose to be factory set at 50 per installing crew. I realized this regulator cannot vent excess pressure like an air pressure regulator so I go inside and turn on the water in the kitchen sink some to get a flow. Turn it off and wife said gauge dropped to about 35 psi with flow, and showing about 40 no flow. Go to regulator and turn the adjusting screw 1/2 turn in. Wife says now showing 50 psi. Turn water in kitchen sink back on for flow and again dropped to 35 psi. Back to regulator and turn adjusting screw another 1/2 turn in. Now reading 60 psi, and dropped to 40 with flow. As I walked out of the front door and we are discussing this I tell her I think the regulator is bad. I cannot see it dropping 20 psi from just cracking the one valve to get a flow. As we are talking she says the gauge is now back on 90 psi. OK, I'd done the regulator has to be bad.
There was a couple of emails to her, and the General Manager, and Assistant General Manager about this and why the guys that installed it didn't check it afterwards or they didn't check to make sure the regulator was functioning right before burying it into the ground. Wife aggravated at me for "going over her head" but not my intentions so much. Anyway 10-28 two different water department guys arrive while I am under the floor working on replacing water lines. I had to come out to go inside for something and walked to the road to talk to them. Both laying on their stomachs on the ground looking down in the large meter box type cover put over the regulator. One told me they were told to come out and look at the regulator and make sure it wasn't installed backwards. They were looking for the direction of flow arrow on the body of the regulator. As it was mostly covered in dirt they were going to have to do some digging and try to rotate it to see which direction the flow arrow was pointing.
At first I though the "experts" installing it backwards, and both crews telling me they never verified the pressure after a regulator was installed. What a crook of crap! Just put in a part and call it good without knowing?? That I happen to have a pressure gauge testing MY work was how this all come about. Then find after installing the regulator still having the same pressure? Then I am thinking about it as I went back under the floor working. If it WAS backwards, how did the pressure drop when I backed the adjusting screw out. I don't see how it could be lowered if installed backwards, but especially that the pressure again rose to the system pressure and would not stay at the set pressure to me indicated the regulator HAD to be bad. I didn't consider being installed backwards.
Anyway, later one of the men comes and ask me if I got a pressure gauge, theirs is broken! They had to install another regulator somewhere else that morning and had to go to the local Ace Hardware store and get it. So, why didn't they get a gauge while they are there? I ask them!! "we don't check them after we install them, someone else comes out and does that." WTH?? SOMEONE ELSE DOES THAT!! Send out someone else when there are already 2 men here?? Really? Yes, I have a gauge and we took my gauge out of my test rig. Well he didn't know if he had anything to test with. Dug around in the toolboxes and found the water hydrant adapter finally with the broken gauge and we swapped and installed my gauge and hooked it to the outside water hydrant on the back side of the mobile home.
Now understand, he told me the regulator was installed correctly. He had backed off the adjusting screw about 2-1/2 rounds and wanted to see what it did. OK, I did this Sunday already, and the gauge wouldn't maintain pressure. You didn't do anything to it (so he said) and I am extremely skeptical to see anything other than what I have already saw for several days since the regulator was installed. So One man at the water meter and regulator, the other standing at the front and I at the back watching the gauge. Turn on the water and - 40 psi steady. turned the water on in the kitchen sink again and it dropped to around 30. We increased the adjustment about 1/4 turn at a time until he said there was about 52 psi dropping to about 45 with the sink faucet cracked. Watched the gauge (the same gauge that showed the pressure rising to around 100 a couple of days before) and it held stead. I ask again, "what did you do to it, you said it wasn't installed backwards?" and he repeated they hadn't done anything to it, just loosened the adjusting screw about 2-1/2 turns where I did 1-1/2 then ran it back in a turn.
Something smells about this to me. I didn't watch them, but they had time to replace the regulator, but claimed they didn't have one when they got there. If it was bad, they were going to have to go back to Ace Hardware (about 25 mile round trip) and get one. So for over a week the regulator would not limit max pressure and I did adjust it and see it lower the pressure but not continue to hold the lower pressure. Bad regulator right?? Yet up till they got into the truck to leave, they maintained they didn't do anything to it. I looked and saw they had dug dirt out from around it, but attribute that to turning it to see the direction of flow arrow on the body. As I said they were there well long enough that they could have swapped it, except they claimed they didn't have one before they had checked to see if the one installed was installed correctly.
Yesterday I had to go to Home Depot which is about a 60 mile roundtrip for me. I got the water hydrant adapter and another gauge and put it one the water hydrant yesterday afternoon - 2 days after the guys were out looking at it and when I turned on the hydrant the gauge shows 50 psi no flow.
I have a "little" experience with regulators and plumbing (I have a plumbers license) and don't see being able to change the pressure with the flow going the wrong way, which I was able to do, and that the pressure continued to rise to whatever the system pressure was means the regulator cannot regulate the maximum pressure, which was the sole reason it was installed.
I think they told me a "story" First thing is one of their own installed it originally, so it makes the department look bad if it was installed wrong. They were sent out to check that (someone told them specifically to check that the regulator was installed right - seems like this has happened before but since nobody checks the pressure after installing one I am not sure how they would know that) The toilet and sinks are still connected and have been used daily. The regulator is installed immediately past the water meter, so the water was cut off at the meter and the line cut to install the regulator, then the water turned back on. I never got a pressure reading below 95 psi after the regulator was originally installed and even after I attempted adjusting it, it rose back up to that pressure which to my mind means the regulator cannot regulate.
Sorry for so much, but trying to lay it all out for accurate evaluations. What do you think?