Safety poll: Do you use the guard on your tablesaw?

[Frederick Skelly]

It will seem nuts to some of you, but Ive never used a tablesaw that has a guard. Every one has always been just "bare blade". I occasionally use a home made splitter. Im thinking its time to mend my ways before I get hurt and have to mend my hand. But I got curious and wanted to poll the community informally. Id appreciate hearing how you do things in your shops.

On a day to day basis, say "most of the time", which way do you work for ripping lumber:
1. Do you operate your tablesaw without a guard and without a splitter/riving knife?

2. Do you operate it using only a splitter/riving knife?

3. Do you operate it with BOTH a guard and splitter/riving knife?

4. Other.

Personally, Im about sold on ordering a Shark Guard because I like its flexibility. I contacted him last week and he makes one that fits my old delta.

If you have a minute, can you just reply with the number 1 - 4? And if you have any other thoughts or ideas Id appreciate hearing them too.

Thanks folks!
Fred

[John Seiffer]

Number 3 for sure. I have a Shark Guard which I love.

Before I was so rigourous about safety I split my thumb on my old saw. Functionality is fully restored but there's a bit at the tip that's still numb 20 plus years later. The hand doctor I saw said he saw more table saw injuries than for any other tool. He thinks it's because when the blade is stationary and you're moving the wood into the blade you're more likely to have a problem than with a router or a mitre saw where you're moving the blade. So yea - #3 for me.

[lowell holmes]

No 3

I have an over arm guard and a splitter in the insert.

[Matt Day]

Is it just me or is there no poll?

[CPeter James]

I have an Exactor overarm guard and a splitter on my PM66. I use both 99% of the time and am very uncomfortable when I don't have them in place. On the PM66 there is an adjustable stud on the trunion that I mount an oak splitter. The splitter is .005" wider than the blade cut, i.e., a .130"splitter for a .125" blade.

CPeter

[Pat Barry]

1 - No guard. It just gets in the way

[Frederick Skelly]

Is it just me or is there no poll?
No Matt, theres no poll - I couldnt figure out how to set it up right. So I did it manually.
Fred

[Jay Jolliffe]

No guard...get's in the way when doing small rips...

[Steve Wurster]

Number 3 for me. I use the guard as often as possible. Only time it's not on there is for non-through cuts.

I use the SawStop dust-collection guard on a non-SawStop saw and it still works awesome. I get little to no dust when ripping. That guard can be had via Amazon for less than a Shark Guard and a whole lot quicker to boot.

Note that my saw is a Ridgid contractor-style, so I have a splitter and not a true riving knife. I had to drill a hole in the splitter in order to mount the guard, but it doesn't affect the operation of either. The fact that it's a splitter and not a riving knife also means that the height is fixed, but that also doesn't affect the operation.

[Bill Space]

No. 2 here .... With lots of jigs and hold downs and push blocks...

[cody michael]

I don't use a guard either, to me the saws I have used with guards seemed more dangerous. because they were in my way.

[Harvey Miller]

#3- I have a sharkguard on my Ryobi BT3100. The only time I take it off is for narrow rips. On the other hand I volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, no guard there :(

[Lee Schierer]

No 1, but I use feather boards and push sticks extensively.

[John Coloccia]

#3. I never used a guard or splitter/riving knife until I had a saw that had a good guard and riving knife. The only time it comes off is for very thin cuts, or non-through cuts. Even so, the riving knife NEVER comes off as it never gets in the way, and that's 90% of the battle right there.

[Kevin Nathanson]

#3. Felder slider with a proper overarm guard that also does dust collection; the only time the guard/riving knife is not used is for cuts where it would be without value, such as a dado, where the blade is fully isolated from being able to do damage to body parts.

K

[Jerry Thompson]

No. I have yet to find one that is not a pain.

[roger wiegand]

Overarm guard and splitter on my PM66 whenever they aren't in the way of actually making the cut.

[Matt Day]

No 1, but I use feather boards and push sticks extensively.

+1........

[Rich Engelhardt]

#2 - I use a MJ splitter and no guard.

The POS guard/splitter that came with my Ridgid TS3660 is far too dangerous to have on. It never lined up right from the get go. I lost track of the number of times I had to back the stock I was cutting out & wriggle it around so it would feed through the splitter.
How insanely unsafe is that?

[Keith Hankins]

My answer would be depends on the operation being done. I have the Sawstop, so I have both However when doing say a non through cut it's only a riving knive. I also use Grp-rrr's as push sticks. (lets not forget the safety glasses and yes even steel toe boots). Sorry I work in manufacturing all my life, so PPE is critical.

[ken masoumi]

Don't have a guard ,the saw didn't come with one.hardly use my table saw .

[Jim Andrew]

3 I have a sharkguard on the unisaw, and it does get in the way of narrow rips, but the Hammer tablesaw guard is narrower and narrower rips work ok on it. When I did construction, never used a guard, but now I'm older and appreciate safety more, and don't like sawdust in my eyes.

[Mark Bolton]

#1 and #2 here. Never a guard, sometimes a riving knive when the operation benefits. It will be interesting to see how long it takes this thread to blow to bits. There are dozens of pages of this exact same question in the archives and they never end well.

[Mike Wilkins]

Both 1 and 4 for my situation. I have a sliding tablesaw that came with both a splitter and guard, and also an older Craftsman with neither. Before I got the slider, I had an older Rockwell/Delta with the pop up splitter. It was not a good system, and rarely used. After getting the slider, I began using them all the time. Even without using the guard, a splitter is now there all the time.
Still counting to 10.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, my answer is 3.

My saw has a riving knife and a crown guard with dust extraction.

When I owned a cabinet saw I had an Excalibur overarm guard and a Merlin removable splitter.

I wouldn't reccomend the Shark guard unless it's a model that isn't splitter/riving knife mounted as you won't be able to use it for non through cuts.

regards, Rod.

[Mike Wilkins]

Oops. I meant to say 1 and 3.

[Rod Sheridan]

#3- I have a sharkguard on my Ryobi BT3100. The only time I take it off is for narrow rips. On the other hand I volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, no guard there :(
Be careful with that, Habitat could be considered your employer and OSHA applies..........Rod.

P.S. My oldest brother ran into the same problem at Habitat in Ontario.

He informed the manager about their liability for not complying with the law and presto, a new saw with guard appeared.

[Mark Bolton]

crown guard with dust extraction.

This will be the only reason I install any form of a guard. The dust off the top of the blade is a real irritation. I do a lot of ripping with the feeder and the blade is burried under the feeder and would love a retractable solution where I could attach the dust collection to a boot on the feeder and keep the wheels clean.

[Mike Heaney]

#3: Guard and riving knife whenever it is possible. I just upgraded to a new saw, and added above table dust collection to the mix at the same time. Even with my old delta contractor saw I had the blade guard on whenever I could. Personally, I don't think I need to see the blade- if I can see the wood's relation to the fence as it is fed in and where it is against the fence after the cut, then I think I have enough information.
also use feather boards whenever possible, and a big orange handled push board thing from Bench Dog. Oh, and plus 1 on eye protection, ear protection and steel toe work boots.

[Don Morris]

I use splitters, Grrrripers and sleds. Push sticks if that's all I can come up with, depending. Never just a bare blade. At my age and stage, on a fixed income, I will stay with what I have, but wish I had a riving knife or enough space for a slider.

[Marty Tippin]

Riving knife only, haven't used the guard more than a couple of times. I use Grrripper for almost everything and wouldn't be without it or the riving knife. Cross-cut sled gets used as much as possible as well.

[Mike Ontko]

#3 whenever possible. And as an equal measure, I'll use push sticks, feather boards, or crosscut/panel sleds whenever they're needed or it just makes sense. The 6" rule (maintaining a safe distance between spinning blade and hand) also applies.

My first tablesaw was an older '60s contractor model Craftsman that didn't have a blade guard or splitter (though it did have an arbor wobble/runout problem). And since I'd first learned to use a tablesaw--in shop class, no less--without the benefit of any safety devices I didn't give the matter too much thought. My current saw (a 2 hp Grizzly 1022 Pro Z) has a standard swing-down style guard and splitter with a set of anti-kickback pawls. It's a pain to setup and remove (repeating ad nauseum), but for some reason--maybe it's because I'm finally getting into woodworking at a later stage in life--I kind of enjoy the process of taking these extra steps. I think somewhere else on this board someone mentioned that this kind of setup activity helps us to slow down a little and approach even the simplest tasks with a little more directed thought--something that's often missing in shop related accidents.

[Myk Rian]

1

I most always am using a Grr-Ripper, and those accessories get in the way. My TS is not capable of having a riving knife.

[Tony Leonard]

3 - I use a Brett guard and the built in riving knife.

[jack forsberg]

On the Wadkin PK i still use all of its 70 years old guards. I find there well made and conceived and never in the way. i do love the true riving knife and i don't think i would enjoy operating a 18" saw with out the crown or knife.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm001.jpg

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm002.jpg

the only time i move the crown is to do a tenon cut and the crown does this very easily with a rotating base.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm003.jpg

the PK also has the sliding rip plate fence so i can pull it back to do the tenon or narrow strip ripping so even with the crown off the saw still has the riving knife and sliding rip plate fence to pull back and stop wood from be trapped in the rising teeth at the back of the blade the main cause of kick back.

cut with out a crown for tenons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPhsQy1c4Q&list=PLrGUwFtKG85RHPPO-CMCzkBMHc8xq4xLs

[Ken Fitzgerald]

#3. My splitter is part of the guard. I always use both. The only time I remove the guard is when I am using my dado blades.

[Dave Zellers]

1- with my trusty old Delta.

Never installed it when I bought it 40 years ago.

[Wade Lippman]

3 The guard isn't necessary, but the splitter sure it. I am astonished by the people saying they don't use splitters!

[Eric Anderson]

I have the sawstop professional. Seldom use the blade guard, but never use the saw without the riving knife (dados excepted of course). Also always have the push stick at the ready or other jig or sled as appropriate.

[Paul Gatti]

I have the sawstop professional. Seldom use the blade guard, but never use the saw without the riving knife (dados excepted of course). Also always have the push stick at the ready or other jig or sled as appropriate.

I'm in the same boat as Eric. I guess that means number 2 for me. I've tried using various guard systems and they always feel more dangerous to me.

[Bruce Page]

No guard. I use a Biesemeyer drop in splitter for ripping.

[Steve Baumgartner]

#2. I've never encountered a guard that didn't get in the way most of the time or prove a PITA to remove and reattach. I'm pretty careful about featherboards and such and have only had a couple of occasions over 30 years when it threw something. However, I worry about all the dust thrown up in the air. To get dust collection above the blade would be my main reason to change.

[Charles Lent]

#4 Seems the best fit

I have an early 80's Unisaw that didn't come with a guard, but it has the Delta pop-up splitter that I use whenever ripping. I have 2 Grippers at the Unisaw that I use whenever possible and a Uni-T-Fence and feather boards whenever the Grrippers aren't the best choice. I have a ceiling mounted Brett Guard that presently has some installation issues, but it will be fully operational soon. I also have a ceiling mounted laser that shines a cut line across the surface of the work and the saw. It isn't accurate enough to align to, but if your fingers ever show a red line across them, they are in the wrong place. I'm a firm believer in the 6" rule for keeping my fingers away from the blade and I've practiced it for 60+ years without incident.

Charley

[Mark Carlson]

#3 with dust collection to guard. Some cuts wont allow the splitter or guard so I remove in those scenarios, but put right back afterwards. For me not using the guard would be like not buckling up when I got in the car.

~mark

[Peter Quinn]

At work I use a big slider with riving knife and over arm guard, it's a great set up, collects dust, blocks the occasional off cut that flys, easily moves out of the way as needed. I could never imagine having anything that visually obstructive in my little home basement shop. As for safety, that's still largely a function of the nut that holds the wood to the table. A riving knife won't keep you from shoving your hand into a spinning blade, neither will an over arm guard....only the operators brain can do that. It does prevent kick backs and flying dust however quite effectively. The two traditional Cabinet saws in the shop both have no guards, no splitters.

At home I have a bies splitter and use it for every cut possible. No guard though, always a push block or and feather boards where appropriate, also have a power feed for repetitive stuff.

[Mark Patoka]

#1 most of the time but I will use my Micro Jig splitter at times depending on what I'm doing. I've tried to use the guard that came with my Sears saw but they are just too dangerous and unwieldy. I would like an overarm guard for the dust collection if I could set up my garage shop better.

[Jim Laumann]

#3

I use the guard and splitter that came w/ my 10" saw. I've gone 360 degrees on the topic.

When the saw was new I used it, but then got to not using it for dados, etc, and ultimatedly got lazy and left it off. Fast forward about 25 yrs. My left middle index finger got a up close and personal caress from the blade on my CMS - and 8 stitches. I was lucky - no bone or other damge - but the site of the scar is still somewhat numb. Since that time, guards are installed.

Jim

[Max Neu]

I don't use a guard or riving knife, mine only gets used for ripping with a power feeder.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't use a guard or riving knife, mine only gets used for ripping with a power feeder.

Thats funny Max, I have a miserable time sometimes ripping with the feeder if I dont use a knife (not that you said yours even had the knife or not). If I dont run the riving knife on hardwoods I will have a lot of stalls even if the material is super clean and straight. Just that little bit of pinch in the rip will stall the feeder especially when the wheels get dirty/dusty. Western Roller was telling me about some anti-static brushes that would be handy to fit to ride against the wheels and the chips supposedly just fall off but I have never tried it.

The stalls foul me up because I am usually walking to or from my wood storage bay and not even at the saw if it stalls. With the knife I just shove a board in and head for the next one while its running through.

[Yonak Hawkins]

This is a great poll. I'd love to see the compiled results. It seems like it's a close race between #3, #1 & #2, in that order, from brief observation.

As for me, I'm #1. I have a perfectly good splitter that I never use. I guess I must have removed it at one time and never found a reason to put back but, certainly, there are times when it seems like it would come in handy.

[Jim Davenport]

#3 for me. As I got older, I got more careful.

[Garth Almgren]

#2 for me with a MJ splitter. Before I got the splitter, it was #1 for me. My saw didn't come to me with any guards, but I'd like to someday get a Shark Guard and move up to #3.

[James Baker SD]

#1, before "the accident" that required 3 surgeries and 6 months of therapy to put my hand back together and allow it to function again.
#3 ever since.

[Prashun Patel]

#2. I have a Sawstop though. Would consider #3 (but would probably end up doing #2) if I didn't have a Sawstop.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I use neither. My Unisaw is from the era of "those items were complete junk". They found the recycle bin before the saw was ever powered up.

[Jon Nuckles]

#1 for me, with an occasional #2. If I upgrade my saw and can get decent dust collection off the blade, that would change my habits.

[Mike Henderson]

No guard but I do use a riving knife all the time on my SawStop saw.

Mike

[Chris Padilla]

Number 2 for me: no guard and I use an MJ splitter most of the time.

[Frank Martin]

#3 all the time. Just can't afford the risk of injury. Consequences are just too big to do anything different. In fact I was all set to ugrade from a Unisaw to a SawStop for extra safety and came upon a good deal on a Minimax combo, which is great because by design my hands are nearly always away from the blade. Although, the absolute best would have been a euro slider with the SawStop technology. Yes, belts and suspenders when it comes to safety.

[rudy de haas]

Hi:

I'm a consistent #2. However... this reflects what I'm doing rather than habit and is certainly not a recommndation for others.

The reasons 2 works for me include:

1 - I'm not doing much repetitive work. People who do, often let their attention wander and that's when passive safety devices pay off most.

2 - I find being able to watch exactly what the blade is doing important because I'm mainly either making small cuts close to the maximum precision I can manage or rough cutting pieces that are longer than my table and thus needed to be held level while feeding through.

3 - the riving knife is particularly important when cutting difficult hardwoods like hickory and jatoba because tensions inside the wood could otherwise jam the blade.

[Mark Bolton]

1 - I'm not doing much repetitive work. People who do, often let their attention wander and that's when passive safety devices pay off most.

Thats the million dollar statement right there.

[Max Neu]

Thats funny Max, I have a miserable time sometimes ripping with the feeder if I dont use a knife (not that you said yours even had the knife or not). If I dont run the riving knife on hardwoods I will have a lot of stalls even if the material is super clean and straight. Just that little bit of pinch in the rip will stall the feeder especially when the wheels get dirty/dusty. Western Roller was telling me about some anti-static brushes that would be handy to fit to ride against the wheels and the chips supposedly just fall off but I have never tried it.

The stalls foul me up because I am usually walking to or from my wood storage bay and not even at the saw if it stalls. With the knife I just shove a board in and head for the next one while its running through.
I don't have any problems with stalls,although occasionaly it will groan a little bit if I run a piece through that twists from probably not being dried properly.I am running a 5h.p. powermatic with a 1 h.p. feeder,along with the super grip wheels(the blue wheels) from western roller,and a very aggresive 20 tooth Amana rip blade.I would probably try a riving knife if I had one,but I don't remember if it came with one or not,I bought the saw new probably 17 yrs. ago,too long for me to remember.If it did come with one,it probably got pitched a long time ago after a cleaning frenzy.Does your riving knife ever get in the way of the wheels?My blade just misses the wheels,the back 2 wheels straddle the blade with no extra room.I would consider putting a knife on if I knew it wouldn't get in the way.

[glenn bradley]

On a day to day basis, say "most of the time", which way do you work for ripping lumber:
1. Do you operate your tablesaw without a guard and without a splitter/riving knife?
Never when ripping.


2. Do you operate it using only a splitter/riving knife?
When making cuts that cause the guard to be more a danger than a safety.


3. Do you operate it with BOTH a guard and splitter/riving knife?
Whenever possible.


4. Other.
My only 'others' come into play for operations other than ripping.

Don't step back from safety just because someone who's been "doin' this since forever" says they never use a guard or whatever other irresponsible things one might hear. The contractor saw guards of yesteryear that offered more danger than safety setup a generation of woodworkers who don't use guards. Twenty years ago the products that we have for the home / amateur shop today were not available. Use your most valuable safety device; your brain. I have a sign in my shop that says "None of these machines have a brain, You'll have to use yours".

Guards, push blocks, feather boards, proper speeds, proper cutters for the task and all sorts of things are available without undue trouble or inconvenience. You want inconvenience, try opening your beer with only your ring finger and a pinky. ;-)

[Dave Zellers]

Don't step back from safety just because someone who's been "doin' this for 40 years" says they never use a guard or whatever other irresponsible things one might hear.
Agree completely.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't have any problems with stalls,although occasionaly it will groan a little bit if I run a piece through that twists from probably not being dried properly.I am running a 5h.p. powermatic with a 1 h.p. feeder,along with the super grip wheels(the blue wheels) from western roller,and a very aggresive 20 tooth Amana rip blade.I would probably try a riving knife if I had one,but I don't remember if it came with one or not,I bought the saw new probably 17 yrs. ago,too long for me to remember.If it did come with one,it probably got pitched a long time ago after a cleaning frenzy.Does your riving knife ever get in the way of the wheels?My blade just misses the wheels,the back 2 wheels straddle the blade with no extra room.I would consider putting a knife on if I knew it wouldn't get in the way.

Im running about the same specs, 5hp w/1hp feeder (3 wheel) and the yellow wester roller wheels. I run a 24T full kerf rip (its a 23 cause one is blown and last go my sharpener didnt braze a new one on). I have three different knives for my saw and with the smaller of the three and a 10" blade I can still straddle with the knife and the blade between 2 and 3 but its close. I just run a tooth an a half through the work.

Its really no matter if your not having problems. Im usually running #1 common or better and my supplier is the drier and they seem to do a pretty good job but I still get the occasional pinch/spread. I wish I'd gotten the blue wheels but I went with their recommendation.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys. This has been illuminating for me.

As of post #64, looks like we have this breakdown:
* About 23 of us said #3 - use both a guard and splitter/riving knife when possible
* About 15 of us said #1 - use niether (includes me, today)
* About 15 of us said #2 - use a splitter/riving knife
* And a couple of us seemed to vote for #4 - other.

This doesnt add to 64 because some people had multiple posts, didnt seem to vote, etc.

Fred

[Patrick McCarthy]

On the Wadkin PK i still use all of its 70 years old guards. I find there well made and conceived and never in the way. i do love the true riving knife and i don't think i would enjoy operating a 18" saw with out the crown or knife.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm001.jpg

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm002.jpg

the only time i move the crown is to do a tenon cut and the crown does this very easily with a rotating base.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/rm003.jpg

the PK also has the sliding rip plate fence so i can pull it back to do the tenon or narrow strip ripping so even with the crown off the saw still has the riving knife and sliding rip plate fence to pull back and stop wood from be trapped in the rising teeth at the back of the blade the main cause of kick back.

cut with out a crown for tenons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPhsQy1c4Q&list=PLrGUwFtKG85RHPPO-CMCzkBMHc8xq4xLs

Jack, CUT IT OUT! Your tool porn is KILLING me. Every time I see those pictures I have lust in my heart . . . . . Guess I'm getting old, as I would rather look at your machines than scantily clad young "ladies". I never knew what I was missing until I started watching your videos. Any chance you need a shop assistant to polish those Wadkins?

[Alan Bienlein]

No guard and no splitter. To date the only thing I have been considering adding is some sort of over head dust collection but haven't pursued it yet as any mounting system to hold it just gets in the way.

[Ole Anderson]

#3, I use a Shark Guard whenever the rip allows it. I get nervous whenever I have a narrow rip and I have to remove the SharkGuard. I do have a splitter for those situations. I got bonked in the gut once, and that is enough. And I use a long hold down, never a push "stick".

Get a SharkGuard and you will never look back. Very easy to take on and off. Unless you tilt the blade 45 degrees on a G1023. Which I almost never do.

[jack forsberg]

all the guys that say the crown is in the way can you tell me whats its in the way of? your hand?





299250

[Mark Bolton]

Jack, CUT IT OUT! Your tool porn is KILLING me

Yeah, the guy is just a wet blanket every time he posts. But gosh,.. gives you something to strive for. :o Even if its a video Ive seen before its just too iirresistible not to click it one-more-time.. heh

[Yonak Hawkins]

I got bonked in the gut once, and that is enough

.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=299248&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1329494274



Wow !! That's some "bonk".

[Lewis Justis]

3. MJ splitter and Excalibur overarm guard on my Unisaw except for dados. Used none for 35 years but finally got tired of sawdust in my face.

[David Kumm]

That Wadkin guard is way harder to find than the saw. Wish someone would make the bracket and pipe assembly with a newer style head with DC ( but have some design to it ). Don't know if there is enough market because it would cost money. Dave

[Keith Weber]

Guards only really get in the way when they're poorly-designed.

I was a #1 when I still had my old Grizzly cabinet saw. Now, with the Altendorf, I'm definitely a #3.

I feel so much safer with the slider and a proper riving knife and overhead guard.

[John Sanford]

#3. Delta Uniguard (overarm guard) & Splitter on my Delta Contractor Saw

[Dennis Aspö]

I have a riving knife and overheard guard on a boom arm. I keep the overhead guard quite far up though because I find it gets in the way too much. I'd never use a saw without a riving knife though.

The guard however is too big and bulky, all sheet metal industrial stuff. I am planning to make a much narrower one with transparent sides, so I can get the push sticks in and also see what I do.

[Max Neu]

Guards only really get in the way when they're poorly-designed.

I was a #1 when I still had my old Grizzly cabinet saw. Now, with the Altendorf, I'm definitely a #3.

I feel so much safer with the slider and a proper riving knife and overhead guard.
That's the way I am,I use both the splitter and guard on my slider because it's not in the way at all,plus the guard helps alot with dust collection.Years ago,my tablesaw was used day in,and day out.Over the years,things have changed,I now have a slider,2 bandsaws,and I buy 90% of my lumber already s4s,so my tablesaw rarely gets used.

[Clint Baxter]

I would have to say that I'm running between 2 and 3 myself. I have a PM2000 so it has the riving knife. I never use the saw without the riving knife, but used to leave the guard off unless doing a lot of ripping. Picked up a shark guard recently for the dust collection and it has pretty much stayed on the saw since.

Clint

[Ken Frohnert]

I use a aftermarket overarm guard and a sharkguard spliter

[Joe Calhoon]

That's the way I am,I use both the splitter and guard on my slider because it's not in the way at all,plus the guard helps alot with dust collection.Years ago,my tablesaw was used day in,and day out.Over the years,things have changed,I now have a slider,2 bandsaws,and I buy 90% of my lumber already s4s,so my tablesaw rarely gets used.
So true, it is all in the quality and design of the guards. See this for safety devices that work.
http://www.panhans.de/pan_en/index.php/safety-technology/catalogue-download

We use the slider as a joinery saw in our shop and # 3 most of the time unless doing a special operation. When not using the overhead guard we have clamps and other devices like the Fritz Franz jig to keep fingers away from the blade. We have a straight line saw for ripping. If I had to rip on a table saw I would want it fitted with a good overhead, splitter and the sliding, turntable Euro fence.
joe

[Frederick Skelly]

Im sitting here looking at Jack's Wadkin tablesaw, and that old movie Crocodile Dundee came to mind. You know the line Im thinking of, right? And yah, I just gotta say it because it seems so appropriate when I compare my 10" contractor saw with that Wadkin -

"That aint a tablesaw. THIS is a tablesaw!"

Jack, we LOVE seeing the tools you sell.

Fred

[Dennis Aspö]

My saw has a very similar overhead guard as the Wadkin you mention, it's the one I find too big and clumsy to use. Something like the sharkguard would fine more use for me.

[Daniel O'Neill]

No guard. When I was a child my dad split his thumb because he couldn't see the saw blade. (His hand probably shouldn't have been so close in my guess but I was little) So he never used a guard on the table saws we had. I get uncomfortable not seeing the blade but as I grow my tool collection I would like to get guards & safety stuff in place. So right now #1 in the future #3

[David Gutierrez]

Number 3 except of dados.

[David Weaver]

No 2. I don't use a TS much, though. One of my first experiences with a TS was a friend who goes Norm on the TS, a 5 hp PM 66. I got to play wide receiver for a kicback - fortunately a piece of thinner paneling, but it still hurt.

A riving knife is plenty for me. I never had much tolerance for any other contraptions.

[Thomas O Jones Jr]

I have a Saw Stop and still use the blade guard. I like my fingers/hand. TOJ

[Justin Ludwig]

Nothing. Zero clearance insert. Solid lumber I use a short rip fence. I have an over-arm DC that aids in keeping hands away. Jigs for cuts that require odd angles.

[Kevin Jenness]

I work in a shop with five woodworkers, two powermatic 66's and a Martin slider. The tablesaws have Biesemeyer snap-in splitters and overhead guards, the slider has a riving knife and Excalibur overhead guard. Personal practice varies on the overhead guards,, but the splitters and riving knife are always in place for through cuts because everyone realizes the safety benefits and they are easy to remove and replace, and offer no obstacle in normal ripping use. Guards will not be used if they are perceived as inconvenient, thus the combined splitter/guards of old are to be found, if at all, on the shelf.

Personally, I use the overhead guard for ripping down to about 1" width, which allows me to use a 1/2" baltic birch push stick without fouling the guard. Other people like to "see what's happening at the blade", so they move the guard aside, especially for narrow rips. I am more interested in how the stock is following the fence, so I keep the guard in place more often, for dust collection and to remind me not to put my fingers there. Regardless, it is the splitter/riving knife that offers the most protection against kickback and is most critical to keep in place as much as possible.

[Ray Newman]

#3 here.

I run a circa 1987 Unisaw that is equipped with old style disappearing splitter and Uni-guard.

Also when ripping narrow cuts, I will flip the Uni-fence down to its lower position to allow more room for my hand and push sticks.

Will also attach a set of Board Buddies or feather boards for some cuts.

[Chris Parks]

3 The guard isn't necessary, but the splitter sure it. I am astonished by the people saying they don't use splitters!

Don't set the fence parallel with the blade and the risk is vastly reduced, buy a slider and there is no risk.

[Dennis Aspö]

To me and how I define a splitter (sits further back, rises over the blade, doesn't tilt) I can see why it's not used, seems clumsy. Riving knives are the only way to go IMO. And a short fence insert eliminates pinching, though I mostly use my long and very parallel fence.

And not having the fence parallel to the blade, that makes no sense to me, isn't that pretty important if you want straight cuts. Putting it slightly out of alignment so it can't pinch is safe (due to wear on my saw it was like that at first) but I'd rather have a parallel fence with a riving knife and make dead straight cuts, so many problems things are out of square IMO...

[Chris Parks]

The fence not being parallel has zero effect on the accuracy or size of the cut. The reason is that the saw blade or plate is what actually guides the timber after the material being cut is about half way through and the fence ceases to be effective or even needed. It is this exact reason why European saws use a half fence, it is simply not needed after the mid point of the blade. All the gadgets sold to get the fence parallel are a good way to waste money and I think it was back in the old days of the rec.woodworking newsgroup that one of the posters there went on a sales campaign to sell his new invention which he argued everyone needed. There were some good debates about it then but he seems to have convinced everyone that parallel is a good thing when in fact it is outright dangerous especially without a proper riving knife.

[Dennis Aspö]

It'll cut straight, but not square...

Even with the short fence it's important that the piece is guided straight into the blade for a square cut. Like I said I had a non parallel fence on my european saw due to wear (I corrected it using a hammer and punch and calibrated framing square, cost $0 as I owned these tools anyway) and the result was non square cuts until I fixed my fence, it didn't help if I used a short configuration insert as it was still being guided into the blade at an angle. The cut was straight, the board wasn't square.

I was ripping long lengths and I was easily able to measure this, now after correcting it it's hardly detectable, and the quality of the rip cut is also better, almost glue line quality from the get go.

[Chris Parks]

Ripping is all about cutting straight and the reason a half fence is so good is it is not necessary to toe out the fence. If the risks were properly known I doubt most users would use a full fence.

[Dennis Aspö]

I don't know of an application except a taper cut where I'd be happy with only straight but not square results. So even when I use the short fence it's important it lines up properly so everything is fed into the blade at the correct angle.

edit: Feeding the wood at anything but a 90 angle ought to put lateral stresses on the blade too, makin it dig into the sides of the blade when I think about the physics involved, which is probably why my cuts improved so much in quality when I made the fence parallel. Even a short fence needs to be parallel (or square) to the blade thusly as I see it.

[Chris Parks]

The blade in effect becomes the guide, mechanically it can't work any other way. I know it is an idea totally foreign to most as nearly all users think the fence is the only guidance system. The fence is the prime guide until the saw plate comes into effect as the cut continues. I am also aware of the strong debate that goes both ways but there are way more kick back injuries and incidents than there are actual hand.saw blade injuries and the kick back injuries occur because of lack of understanding of the guidance process actually works. I think it is the major area in TS use that needs far more education but sadly it does not seem high on any ones list of priorities. I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens. The mitre slot is what needs to be parallel so that it can be used for squaring of material. Sorry for dragging this thread off topic so I will retire now.

[Steve Collins]

# 1 for me.

[John Coloccia]

The blade in effect becomes the guide, mechanically it can't work any other way. I know it is an idea totally foreign to most as nearly all users think the fence is the only guidance system. The fence is the prime guide until the saw plate comes into effect as the cut continues. I am also aware of the strong debate that goes both ways but there are way more kick back injuries and incidents than there are actual hand.saw blade injuries and the kick back injuries occur because of lack of understanding of the guidance process actually works. I think it is the major area in TS use that needs far more education but sadly it does not seem high on any ones list of priorities. I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens. The mitre slot is what needs to be parallel so that it can be used for squaring of material. Sorry for dragging this thread off topic so I will retire now.

The saw plate can not possibly be the guide because the teeth are wider than the plate. If you're dragging on the saw plate after a cut, not only is this just bad for a million different reasons, you'll eventually run hard into the back teeth, encouraging and begging for a kickback to happen.

[Pat Barry]

The fence better not be toed in toward the blade, I think we can all agree on that. So, IF you can't get the fence parallel to the TOOTH LINE, then you are far better off to be ever so slightly toed out with your fence. I'd guess mine is toed out ~ 1/32" at the far end, maybe 1/16" - that's my mental picture anyway without actually being in my shop to measure. Lets say for the sake of discussion that I am toed out 1/16". Half of that toe out is right at the leading edge of the blade. Lets say I have 12 inches in front of the blade to guide my workpiece along that slightly obtuse angle. 1/32" divided into 12 inches is an angle of ~ 0.15 degrees. Not perfectly square, but not so far off that it bothers for many things

[Kevin Jenness]

If the blade and fence are not parallel or nearly so, you get 'heeling" where the material is being recut by the back of the blade coming up, causing tearout. A non-parallel fence also makes it difficult to use the fence as a stop for the miter gauge or sliding table, as the setting will vary slightly depending on where on its length the stock is registering. This can be an issue, for instance, cutting wide cabinet decks and narrow stretchers on a slider using the fence as a length gauge. If the fence is farther away from the cut line at the blade than at the front of the machine, the decks and stretchers will vary slightly in length. A minor point, perhaps, but accuracy and consistency is the whole reason for having a saw like that.

Certainly, a short fence can be safer when ripping solid wood, but there are many times when an extended fence works better. When cutting sheet goods on the slider, if enough of the panel is on the carriage to control its movement there, I will pull the fence back so it ends before thy blade, but if almost all of the panel is to the right of the blade, the fence will be extended forward to allow for guidance all the way through the cut. If the fence is held back in this case, it is very easy for the panel to twist out of the line of cut in the last few inches. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about length of fence, it depends on the particular cut. That's why the Euro style fence is so useful, and clamp-on or drop-on short auxiliary fences for US style fences should be in use when called for.

[jack forsberg]

the short position fence and riving knife are not remedy's to a poorly ill adjusted table saw. Because a properly adjusted table saw would have a fence that was not faultily/ and flat with no twist ,set parallel to the blade (as are the miter slots)so that it can be used from both sides of the blade ,and a riving knife that is sized properly to the saw plate and kerf(thicker than plate and thinner the kerf) and set 4MM from the back of the blade ,and a crown guard that does not fault the fence(so that is does not need to be removed)in narrow strip ripping,and have a least 2 push sticks and a run off table of no less than 1 meter(39")so that the tail boy(apprentices) can not reach the back of the blade.

just saying

[Keith Weber]

I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens.

Well, at least you admit that you're not open to others' opinions. For everyone else, I would not recommend not bothering with fence alignment and the belief that the blade will guide the wood with or without a fence, once your cut is started. That's a good way to get hurt.

[Steve Marcq]

Nothing for me, I find that the spinning blade focuses my mind wonderfully.

[Larry Frank]

I will not deluge you with posts but I really disagree with you. I will take the time and align my fence as close as I can parallel to the blade. I have made cuts where the board comes off the fence a bit and end up with a poor cut and not a straight one either. Chris Parks can have his opinion and I am happy for him but think that he is absolutely wrong it can not be any other way.

[David Nelson1]

I didn't get in on this @ the start, I'm going to chose option 4. Most all the cuts on the TS up until now have been rip cuts for flooring. I tried using the guard that came with the saw and elected to dis-guard it in lieu of board buddies. For the boards that showed signs of inner tension I turned to the BS for these cuts. Then I got a unifeeder which bolts directly to the fence. I have had small cut offs whiz past me, enough that I always figure out a way to place myself so if this happens I'm not the back stop. Well this weekend I got hurt, if I had used the guard (and I use that term loosely) I may have only had shards of plastic in my left hand. I'll do a lessons learned in a few days in a different thread.

[Bill Ryall]

#1.

Extensive use of push sticks and feather boards. And yes, I have had an "accident"- I'm missing the tip of my left thumb due to my carelessness when working extremely tired. However, it wasn't enough to put the guards back on the saw. I'm just not comfortable with them. I understand why they are there, but my level of discomfort is high enough to not use them. Instead, I am (now) extremely careful and wont use the sharp spinny stuff when tired.

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm pretty much #1, but I do drop in a riving knife when its called for. My work is almost never repetitious and I am changing setups often.

I have been hurt a couple of times, and both times it was someone coming up behind me and scaring me at the wrong time. I now lock the shop when I am working and my friends know to wait till the tool shuts off to knock. So...... Idiots are the most dangerous thing in the shop!

Bill, ditto on the tired thing. I have come close to making bad mistakes a few times about 12 hours in..... Time to go home.

Larry

[Erik Christensen]

#2 when i got the saw (robland) as the factory guard sux swamp-water but the euro riving knife has been OK - then I got a new riving knife/guard (shark guard) and that is used all the time (except for narrow rips)

shark guard rules - if you have patience - small operation and they can have long lead times which does not always play well with those of us who "want it now" :)

[Stan Calow]

#3 for me always

[Jim Becker]

My MiniMax slider utilizes a riving knife. I rarely use the "guard" head because I do a lot of non-through cutting and the riving knife that the guard/collection head attaches to is a different one than I use with my 10" Forrest blades...I cannot lower that one enough to be just below the top of the blade since it was designed for a 12" blade. So I have a second one that's ground down specifically for the 10" blades and that's what stays on my saw pretty much all the time. Between the slider action including the miter fence as well as the use of proper push blocks/sticks and taking advantage of the versatile fence, I am comfortable with the level of safety I have while working.

[Clarence Martin]

1 No guard or splitter. Board always jammed up on me when using the guard and splitter

[Bob Carreiro]

No guards, no riving knives.
Have worked in 9 ot 10 shops during my "working years" and have only seen a RK in use on a slider - nothing, ever, on a cab saw. Competence recognizes dangers and controls outcomes.
On my own shop TS, the guard & knife never got unwrapped.

[Noel Poore]

Number 3 - I also have a Shark guard with overhead dust collection, which I love. I only remove the guard for non-through cuts or really narrow rips, when i use a Grripper.

[Kevin Jenness]

"Competence" has almost as hard a time as inexperience predicting which workpiece will bend in the middle of a rip and invite kickback. Splitters and riving knives are safety devices that actually work to prevent unexpected kickback without interfering with control of the workpiece or visibility. What is the downside to using a well designed splitter?

[John Coloccia]

What is the downside to using a well designed splitter?

If my memory serves me, before SawStop popularized riving knives and intelligent blade guards on western table saws, the stock setups where more or less, across the board, garbage. I think I tossed the whole setup from my Delta in the trash about 10 minutes after buying my first tablesaw. It was unusable, and perhaps even a little dangerous. Taking it on and off for non-through cuts was an ordeal, at best. Fast forward to today, and the blade guard is on the saw most of the time, and when I can't use it, at least a riving knife is in.

So to your question, there's nothing wrong with a well designed riving knife, but I can't think of any older style splitter/guards that were well designed and there are a lot of older saws out there.

I could say the same about the pork chop guard on jointers vs European style guards. Now that I have a European style guard, I'd simply never go back to using a jointer with a pork chop. I'm not even sure what, exactly, it's protecting me against. The European style actually offers real protection from the blades.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

#3: Guard and riving knife whenever it is possible

[Kevin Jenness]

"So to your question, there's nothing wrong with a well designed riving knife, but I can't think of any older style splitter/guards that were well designed and there are a lot of older saws out there."

Agreed. Many if not most people afflicted with the old guard/splitters threw them away and never looked back, but I think they would benefit from retrofitting something like a Biesemeyer snap-in splitter. Too bad those are not available for all old saws. Almost any cabinet saw, though, can be fitted with a wooden throat plate with a glued in splitter to good effect.

[Brian Henderson]

#3 for sure, I made my own overhead guard that is both easy to use and easy to get out of the way when it gets in the way of a cut. Every sled I make has a guard built in and I use push sticks and feather boards to keep my fingers far away from the blade.

[Thomas Wilson]

3

I have a Delta overarm guard that is 2-piece. Even with narrow rips, the left half can be kept in place. The right half rests on top of the fence. The only cut that the guard cannot be used with is a really wide cross cut.

The splitter is retractable and easy to push down for non-through cuts. I use it all the time.

I use a feather board for most rip cuts. I have a Board Buddy system that works well with plywood boards. The Buddy wheels get in the way with narrow boards.

I push with homemade plywood pushers of various designs that go under the overarm guard's bar.

No injuries in more than 40 years from a table saw.

TW

[Jim Becker]

1 No guard or splitter. Board always jammed up on me when using the guard and splitter

Clarence, that sounds like a saw alignment adjustment was needed.

[J.R. Rutter]

I'll come in here late to say #3 for my shop. The splitter because mine is a riving knife and is very rarely in the way, and the Biesemeyer overarm guard is great for fine dust capture. I proactively had someone from the state OSHA office come through a few years ago and he liked it.

[Rick Prosser]

#3: Guard and riving knife whenever I can make the cut on my Sawstop

[Mark Woodmark]

I am one of the brave (or stupid) ones who does not use a guard or riving knife. They always seem to be in the way and seem to be more bother than help

[Roy Harding]

Riving knife (positioned below the top of the blade so I can make non-through cuts) on my sliding panel saw. I use the blade guard ONLY because of the dust extraction port built into it (and I don't like knots bouncing off my forehead).

On my secondary table saw (a no-name contractors saw used mostly for dados, grooves, and rabbets), never - it's too much of a pain in the butt. Even when this saw was my main saw, I didn't use the splitter - if/when I eventually replace it, the replacement will have a riving knife - splitters are stupid technology, if they weren't, there wouldn't be so many "work arounds" on the market.

[Dean Karavite]

I have an older left tilt Delta contractor saw and it is first in line to be replaced by a new tool for the shop. Having no other real option, I use the Micro Jig splitter and their GRR Ripper. I know you can make all kinds of push blocks for far less than the $60 GRR Ripper, but it is very versatile and I use it on the table saw, router and jointer. I'm just an amateur, but pure dumb luck was on my side as I did so many dumb things with the table saw before I really learned to be safe.

[Joe Jensen]

Once I got a saw with a proper riving knife and guard I always use it. I had a 1970s Unisaw with no guard and then in 1990 I bought a new PM66 with a crap guard. Tried to use the guard a few times and then tossed it behind the bench.

When I got a Sawstop ISC with the Riving knife and guard I loved it and because an "Always" user. I have since upgraded to a large Felder slider and It too has a great riving knife and guard and I use it always too.