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View Full Version : Stepping up to a new laser, looking for suggestions....



Michele Welch
10-27-2014, 11:07 PM
Hi y'all! I know this topic has been covered in great quantities, but nothing I found really gave a concrete answer to what I'm looking for. A little background... I'm not new to lasers, I've been using a 45w Full Spectrum 20 x 12 Hobby Laser for a bit over a year. So although some of the "big boy" machines might have some hurdles for me to cross with settings and software, I'm basically used to using them and the outcomes expected. I'm tech savvy, and a graphic designer, so more complex software isn't an issue for me.

I'm wanting a larger bed, higher wattage machine that has more consistency than what I currently have. I'll have about 12K to put towards a new machine. I don't really specialize in any certain item. I'm kind of all over the board with items I create. Anything from wood to acrylic, leather, paper, material, etc. And I engrave as well as cut. I think I've pretty much ruled out the chinese machines just from threads I've read about them. I don't live in a big town at all, so any tech support or service would probably come from probably the Charlotte area which is only an hour away.

So, let me have your suggestions. If I've left any information that's needed to give me a recommendation out, please let me know and I'll answer. Thanks, as always, for the best advice and answers that I've found since before I even owned my first laser.

M

Bert Kemp
10-27-2014, 11:33 PM
You say you have about 12 k and have ruled out Chinese machines. So that leaves old used western machines cause from what I read and have priced your not going to get a bigger bed and more power in a western machine for 12 K. 12 K will buy you a really nice Rabbit or Boss or Thunder , your full spectrum was a Chinese machine.
I moved up from a FSL 40 watt to a Rabbit 6040 with 60 watt tube 600x400 mm bed 9 inch z axis and pass thru doors and so far am very happy.JM2¢worth

Michele Welch
10-27-2014, 11:44 PM
Well, I guess I've misunderstood something in my reading. I was under the impression that Rabbit, Boss or Thunder machines were western machines. Are they Chinese machines but branded stateside? I guess I should say that I'm most concerned with having tech support stateside to answer questions or for repairs. I'm not opposed to a Chinese machine if it's a reputable company that has some support stateside. Thanks for the answer Bert.

Bert Kemp
10-27-2014, 11:56 PM
Yes most all of these machines are re-branded Chinese lasers. If you research Rabbit you will find that Rays support is top notch here in the USA thats the reason I bought from him. I'm not a great tinkerer and If I need help I know I can call him and get straightened out fast.
Research the other models also Ihear Boss has a good rep.

Michele Welch
11-02-2014, 5:26 PM
OK, I've been doing some additional research into different lasers and I'm really like the Rabbit machines, but I'm also liking the Boss machines. Specifically the machine that Boss has that will also do metal. It's a bit more than what I've been looking at, but the ability to do metal is a huge plus. So, if y'all had to choose between the 2 companies/machines, which would you choose and why? I know that moving up to these larger machines will require more tech support on my end to get used to things that I've not ever had to worry about with the FS machine, so customer support is important to me. Also longevity of the machine is of concern as well. I know I'm asking alot but I really value the opinions that y'all have always given me and I appreciate your input and knowledge. Thanks in advance!!!

Kev Williams
11-02-2014, 6:21 PM
Awhile back I posted up that my NH rep had a ULS factory rebuilt 50 watt x 12x24 laser I could(have) pick(ed) up for $14k, essentially a new machine with a warrantee-

I only say this because there ARE good deals out there on 'western' machines if you have patience ... :) good luck!

Dave Sheldrake
11-02-2014, 6:57 PM
Michele,

DON'T go down the Chinese metal cutter route unless the vendor really is one of the top in their field. They pump high pressure oxygen into the cut from a 150 watt DC tube....leaks, extraction and general safety are ESSENTIAL on machines like this as even the smallest oversight can relocate your house, your neighbours house and anybody living in them pretty efficiently!
There is ONE company in the world I would purchase a Chinese oxygen assisted laser from that sells them and that's HPC Laser here in the UK, I know of NO other dealers worldwide I would take the chance with. I know Chris at HPC spent 2 years and quite a bit of money getting bugs out of the Chinese systems before he considered selling them.

This is not over stated, these things are like BOMBS, they can kill you and anybody inside the considerable blast radius if they go wrong!

cheers

Dave

ps: I have BIG industrial metal cutters and they are VERY expensive to run in gas costs, the metal cutting market isn't good unless you can compete with machines that cut 5m a second through 10mm+ steel.

David Somers
11-02-2014, 7:06 PM
Michele,

Can you tell us more about what you want to do with metal? There may be another way you can approach it without the risks Dave Sheldrake described, and still get a larger laser for your other needs as you described.

It might also help if you can tell us roughly where you are located. Even just a state or country might be helpful.

Dave

Rich Harman
11-02-2014, 9:23 PM
machines that cut 5m a second through 10mm+ steel.

That's gotta be a typo. If not, please, more details on this machine!

Dave Sheldrake
11-03-2014, 9:04 AM
it was ,should read 1mm+ not 10mm+

cheers

Dave

Michele Welch
11-04-2014, 7:08 PM
I am just north of Charlotte, North Carolina between Charlotte, Hickory and Winston-Salem. I was thinking if the metal cutting laser would do 2 things in one and not have to invest in a plasma cutting table/machine, but if there's even a hint of a problem with it as described above, it's not even an option. We'd still like to get a plasma table to do things like fire rings, metal wall art, mirrors, frames, etc. I'm leaning towards to Rabbit QX-80-1290 machine. I've emailed and talked quite a bit with Carole at Rabbit Laser and it seems like the next logical step for us. BUT, I'd love to hear your opinions on this machine if you are currently using this machine. The good, the bad and the ugly, please!!

David Somers
11-04-2014, 7:53 PM
Michele,

I did not buy a Rabbit and instead ordered direct from China. Bear with me on the explanation though.

First. I would not have hesitated to buy from Rabbit. But..... for what I wanted the cost was still prohibitive for me. I will be using the laser as adjunct tool to what I hope will be a semi paying serious hobby of woodturning + stuff in retirement, not a primary tool in a business.

When I started looking at machines I drooled over Trotec and Epi and ULS. All great machines with different strengths, and for what I wanted....an 80 watt machine with a good size table and as much Z height as possible, it was just not happening with them without selling a kidney or two.
I then looked around a bunch and started talking to Carole at Rabbit. They are terrific folks, have an exceptional reputation, both on this forum and everywhere I talked to about them. But I was still way above what I felt I could put into this for what I was doing. I really wanted to buy from them, both to have their local support, and to support a US company even though they are reselling Chinese machines. But the machine I wanted was about $10k and just not something I could justify. So I ended up buying direct from China.

I think this will work out fine. I work in IT and am pretty confident in my technical and problem solving skills, though my grasp of written Chinglish needs a lot of work. (grin) But if I were a more hardcore type of business, or someone with less confidence in my abilities, and less job tolerance for encountering problems in the machine I would definitely go to Rabbit and have no worries about working with them. I think they offer a great value in their machines, and are very well known for their support of their users from the delivery onward.

See what others here think of them. Fingers are crossed for a great purchase for you though, whatever your choice is.

Dave

Bert Kemp
11-04-2014, 8:22 PM
Michele
The QX-80-1290 Except for the size and wattage and its 220vac its basicly the same as the one I just bought.
Your use to retina engrave and going to lasercut will be a little learning curve but not to bad at all. I think Kev mentioned something like going from a BMW to an old Ford stick shift or something like that but its fun learning.If you're like most of us here you do your design work in Corel and then send to the laser, you will still pretty much do that but theres a step or 2 more in the process and lasercut does some things differently but you shouldn't have any real problems picking it up. I can tell you one thing from personal experience that when the rabbit gets delivered and you unpack it and see it your gonna drool with excitement. You have that 9.5 inch motorized z axis and pass thru doors and OMG your just gonna go WOW!
I will make one suggestion that you upgrade the 5000 chiller to a 5200 as you've no doubt read here that the 5000 is not the most dependable chiller.

Michele Welch
11-04-2014, 8:57 PM
David,

Thank you for the information. It was very good and gives me a lot to think about. Do you happen to have a link to the machine that you purchased? I've not even looked at the machines directly from China mainly because I'm just not savvy in the importing business and don't want to do something that will end up costing me a lot more money because of a stupid mistake. I'm not opposed to it, just don't have enough facts to weigh against going with Rabbit.

Bert,

Thanks for this information as well. Carole has been wonderful to speak with and answers all my questions. I will ask about the chiller upgrade though. Thanks for the heads up!

Keep the comments coming! Y'all are all I have to bounce stuff off of that knows what shoes I'm standing in.

Thanks again!

David Somers
11-05-2014, 11:57 AM
Good morning Michele!

The purchase of the machine was a bit odd. I had intended to look at Shenhui and contacted a sales rep there that people on SMC were very pleased with, Blanca Yan. Turned out that Blanca had left Shenhui and was now working for Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech Ltd. After quite a few emails back and forth I could see why folks in SMC were so pleased with her. She was easy to work with, very helpful, and seemed to be quite honest in everything. I dug into the company as best I could. They have not done a large number of sales in the US yet, but quite a bit elsewhere so I was on Google translate a lot asking people how they liked their machines. All seemed well so I continued working with Blanca and now have an active order with her for a laser and a CNC. They are built, tested, and crated now and they are working with my freight forwarder to start the shipping process. I have been working with a Seattle based ocean freight/customs agent who has been quite good to work with so far; Airport Brokers Corporation. The manager I have been working with is Janiece Guinn at janiece@airportbrokers.com (206) 246 6580. If you have freight forwarders near you with experience in China though I would go local. Remember part of their job is to get the product to your house or business along with dealing with the Chinese side of the shipment, the vessel arrangements, and handling Customs fees and duties for you. A local agent might be easier to work with. These folks have been quite good so far though if that helps.

Ray Fine Tech does have a web site, though it is pretty sketchy in terms of details. I got much more info working directly with Blanca. But their web site is www.rayfinetech.com. The machine is listed under products, then Non metal laser, then CO2 laser engraving, RF-9060. They have the same thing in a 1290 as well, and other sizes too. I ordered this particular one with an EFR 80 watt tube which the esteemed Dave Sheldrake recommended (many many Mahalos to Dave and others for tons of help over the last year as I worked my way to this point.) No extra cost. And it has an extra deep Z height which was something I was looking for to allow me to work with some odd objects. I got a few extra lenses and mirrors and belts and whatnot and a rotary which I had some specific uses for, and also a 127mm lens and tube and spare lenses for it. Blanca's Email is yanblanca@yahoo.com

If you want to look at Shenhui many folks here have recently spoken well of a sales person named John? Perhaps folks can give you his contact info? And Shenhui is certainly a well known and respected company with SMC folks buying Chinese lasers.

The things I would watch for with a direct purchase from a Chinese company is you need to know what you are looking for, and also have confidence in the company itself and their product. Not any ways to do that beyond doing the old gumshoe routine of talking with a lot of people. That was what I had to do with Liaocheng. Shenhui already has a good track record you can follow here in SMC if you want to follow people's efforts with them. All largely good from what I saw BTW.

I think you also need to be very specific in what you ask for. For example, my looking for an EFR tube, and specing a deeper Z height. The companies seem to be pretty accommodating, but are not always forward in asking you questions. So don't be in a rush. And paraphrase and re-ask your questions if you have ANY doubt about what is being discussed. Better to avoid confusion or a misunderstanding than trying to correct a problem after the fact. Just let them know you are compensating for non existent skills in Chinese and just trying to be sure you are both talking about the same thing.

Blanca was very happy to send me a copy of their software and the manual for it. I highly recommend that if you are really interested since you can then load the software up and go through the manual and the software and see how your skills are at Chinglish. These are translated Chinese to English manuals and the translations are.....odd at times? <grin> Having the software in front of you helps a lot. There was one section in the laser manual though that looked like it came from Jabberwocky. I finally asked Blanca if she knew what it was saying and she came back and said Nope! It was gibberish. She took the time and translated that section from Chinese herself for me and explained what it was for. We never did figure out what the original translation was trying to say. it was fine grammatically but the words were total nonsense. We were both chuckling about that for a while.

If you need it, Google translate is not bad. I also like the online tool at http://www.njstar.com/cms/chinese-english-translation It is a free tool and seemed to work well. Keep your words simple and direct and avoid slang and you do fine.

You also need to be prepared to move slowly. They are on the other side of the dateline and many hours off from the US so you are only going to get one or two email exchanges a day at best. Be prepared for that. And be sure that as you get closer to making a payment that you triple check the order, and get photos of everything being sent to you, and that you see videos of their testing of the machines. They are very willing to do that, but you need to ask.

I did two wire transfers for payment, 1/3 to start building things, 2/3 when they were ready to ship and I had approved everything by photo/video/listings. The first took 2 weeks which was a little nerve wracking (turned out they had a large national multiday holiday going on which delayed things, plus the date difference increases wait times over weekends). With an international wire transfer if it goes wrong and goes somewhere other than intended you have little recourse that I am aware of. You can also ask to do things like Paypal if you want. Be aware that for them doing Paypal or multiple wire transfers (like 30% up front and 70% once the order is ready to ship) costs them extra because of fees on these services at their end. So there will be reluctance. Be respectful of their needs but protective of yourself.

I did take time to email and skype with their tech support people simply to see how well we could communicate. I explained that and they were very nice about it and helpful. I would certainly recommend you be pretty self sufficient though in terms of your skill set. Remember the language barrier and the date and time differences are working against you. I deal with this for my day job in IT so I am fine being able to handle all that. But it may not be for everyone. If talking with a Dell or HP technician in Bangalore drives you batty then this may not be for you. They have been unfailingly helpful and patient though.

We will see how this all goes in a number of weeks when the crates actually arrive. But I feel good about it so far. I truly do wish I were in a better position to have worked with the folks at Rabbit though. I would like to have supported a good US company who seems to be exceptional in working with their customers. And they have impressed me in all my dealings with them. For the $$ and what I will be doing with it though that was just not in the cards. Maybe in the future if my needs grow and change.

You are welcome to PM me if you want to keep discussing dealing with China and Liaocheng specifically. And there are lots of folks with similar experiences on SMC who can chime in as well.

Dave