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View Full Version : 2 week wait for ULS exchange laser cartridge



Mike Lassiter
10-23-2014, 8:44 PM
our 60 watt cartridge has finally died. July 08 when it was made and about the time we got our laser. Last year we also got a second 75 watt cartridge (we can run both together or either separately :D) to go with it. Cutting some "bead board" for our primary customer which is exterior siding and aggravating to cut with 135 watts. Was really hoping we could upgrade the 60 to a 75 which would give us max watts but only exchange like for like size. Don't have another $11,500 to get another 75 watt cartridge.

So while technicially we aren't down we sort of are. Show coming up on 8th next month we're going to and our primary customer. We cannot cut her bead board that she makes a lot of different things from - so it hurts both of us. Really hoping to get it sooner, but NOBODY seemed hopeful that could happen. So at best it will arrive a couple of days before the show, at worst after the show.

Thought I would forewarn everybody.

Dave Sheldrake
10-24-2014, 7:01 AM
Sintech Optronics in Singapore do the same sources at $5,700

If you need a contact there drop me a line and I'll give you Pedro's email

cheers

Dave

Mike Null
10-24-2014, 7:17 AM
I would contact Photovac in Ohio and see what they want to remanufacture the tube. I'm sure it will be less and faster.

Mike Lassiter
10-24-2014, 8:13 AM
the cost of the exchange seems reasonable enough, $1250. It doesn't seem to matter what wattage you have the price is the same. Certainly not the case buying them new. Also my understanding is this is only for cartridges purchased from ULS.

matt heinzel
10-24-2014, 8:21 AM
We just got our replacement in on Wednesday from them. It was only a 5 day wait for the 30 watt. I was very happy with the process, and they were very upfront on the timeline. Lucky we have multiple systems so the time wasn't as big of an issue for us.

Scott Shepherd
10-24-2014, 8:40 AM
Mike, have you gone up the chain of command yet? You might try that. Might cut some time off of it. That's unacceptable. 2 weeks without a tube for a person with a single tube machine, and only that one machine, could put you out of business.

Mike Lassiter
10-24-2014, 9:04 AM
Mike, have you gone up the chain of command yet? You might try that. Might cut some time off of it. That's unacceptable. 2 weeks without a tube for a person with a single tube machine, and only that one machine, could put you out of business.

I agree and sort of why I shared the story. We are not "down" exactly as I do have the 75 watt cartridge still. However, what I need to cut for our primarly customer I cannot cut with it. At least not in a reasonable amount of time. I think our 60 watt cartridge has been failing for longer than first believed. We got the extra cartridge because of the difficultly in cutting her parts with the 60 watt alone. Naturally with the extra power the cutting was spead up but still not where I wanted it. Understand also the material is a big part of the problem, but to me thinking back it really seems the 60 watt was going out when we got the extra one. So having another 75 watts sort of masked that I think. Cutting a full 24"x48" sheet of her beard board with several dozen crosses being cut - was painfully slow. I had to cut the sheet 6 times total and 3 hours cutting time.
Not knowing or suspecting the orignal 60 watt cartridge was failing I attributed the problem to the exterior siding. But now I really think the signs of the failing cartridge were there a year ago. But with the second cartridge added and being used in combination with it the real issue wasn't apparent.

Now, cutting for 10-15 minutes what cuts out completely in the beginning does not at the end. Have to run file twice. Ran test using each cartridge individually and plainly see the 60 watt starts cutting fully but within 5 minutes use, it slowly and gradually fades away. Viewed from the back side the last of 50 1/2" squares cut in order you couldn't see any mark at all on the back of 1/4" MDF.

My first thoughts are 2 weeks is just unacceptable. Yelling and being a dick to everyone will not change that IF that is really the case. And honestly, I have another cartridge that does allow me to do SOMETHING whereas someone with only one machine (all I have) AND a single cartridge would be down. So if I force the issue and get one "early" it think I would be getting one that someone else with only a single cartridge really needs and pushing their receipt back further. That's not right, and I honestly think ULS will do the best they can. They have no way to predict when people will need a cartridge nor what wattage. They also have to wait for everyone to send in their bad one so I can see were things get messy.

I really hope for getting one next week, but I am not going to pressure anyone to do that because I think it unfair, not right for me to take someone else's when they need theirs maybe worse than I need mine. I got in line, just like all the others before me. I have been very pleased with both our laser and ULS overall since we got it. I don't think they would have laser tubes available knowing how important they are to people with lasers and hold them from shipment.
Fingers crossed!

Scott Shepherd
10-24-2014, 10:28 AM
Mike, that's a nice way to look at it all. I'd look it from a different standpoint. Are they promising 2 weeks and then going home after 8 hours every day? If so, then I'd say that's unacceptable. If they are that far behind, then they should be working 6 or 7 days a week to clear the backlog. Maybe they are, I have no idea. There's a BIG difference in 2 week backlog and we're working 2 shifts, 7 days a week to clear it, as opposed to we're 2 weeks and we have one shift, working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

I hope it's a short term issue and not a trend moving in that direction.

Ed Maloney
10-24-2014, 12:34 PM
Recently Epilog also had a back order problem. Took about a week to get the replacement, but luckily I was doing a preemptive replacement before the tube gave out totally. I reordered a 35W and thy sent me a 40W which was cool.

And what I didn't know at the time was that I could upgrade all the way to 60W tube.

Mike Lassiter
11-04-2014, 4:52 PM
Update: I received an email late Thursday saying it looked like our cartridge would be scheduled to ship Monday (11-3) from our dealer Paul, and if it shipped before he would let me know. Ok so today comes with great excitement that the shipped next day air laser cartridge would arrive at my wife's job. Around 11 am I messaged her about it. No, nothing yet. WTH? It is my understanding things shipped next day are considered high priority and normally delivered first thing in the morning. Wife remarked that UPS typically comes there around 2:00 pm. Wouldn't help much to be waiting on a critical item and it arrive at the close of business "the next day" would it? So, a couple of emails from my phone and later I got a reply from David at ULS saying there were still 7 more laser cartridges ahead of me to be done, mine should ship this week. Ordered 13 days ago with a 2 week waiting list. Not sure how long it takes to recondition 8 cartridges, but tomorrow would be the 2 weeks and it doesn't sound like it is expected to ship then. I haven't worried anyone, thinking they know I (we) need them and they are working to the best of their ability to get them out. Yet, inside I am disappointed that I was thinking they told me 2 weeks and would beat that, and look good having done better than they advised me at the time of order. Now it looks like the 2 week delay is going to be longer. Not so happy about that.....

Ed Maloney
11-04-2014, 5:21 PM
If this happened to me I would be very close to being out of business.

Paul Phillips
11-04-2014, 5:28 PM
Hey Mike, I feel your pain, I had the same thing happen last week to my dual 60 watt PLS, confirmed payment and got in "the queue" but haven't heard any word yet on ETA. I expected better things when I purchased my ULS!:mad:

Nicolas Silva
11-05-2014, 7:56 AM
If this happened to me I would be very close to being out of business.

Ditto. I have orders on a daily basis so if it goes down I would be backlogged for a month. That pisses customers off.
Have you checked with your dealer to see if they have a loaner cartridge? Certainly they can spare one from a demo model.

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 3:48 PM
:)I just recieved an email with a tracking number for next day air shipping. therefore the originally estimate of a two week wait was esentially dead on accurant as the order was placed two weeks ago today.

ps in addition yesterday when I inquired about not getting laser yesterday David at ULS replied around 1:30 pm "There are still 7 lasers ahead of yours. It has not shipped yet. It should ship this week." I was wondering how many were produced a day.

Martin Boekers
11-05-2014, 4:22 PM
exchange like for like size. Don't have another $11,500 to get another 75 watt cartridge




Did I read you right? $11.500 for just a tube?!!!

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 4:24 PM
Did I read you right? $11.500 for just a tube?!!!

yes - a NEW 75 watt one

Martin Boekers
11-05-2014, 4:37 PM
WoW and We complain about $2500.00 for a 75watt. I hate to ask how much the laser engraver actually cost if you have over $20k in just the tubes...

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 5:07 PM
in 2008 with a single 60 watt cartridge, cutting table, Class 4 module (pass thru), traveling exhaust (required for pass thru operation), air assist cone, and air sweep, 2" lens, 3" lens and HPDFO lens we paid $33K for the machine and accessories and it seems several hundred more for the shipping of it. This was after some negotiating. The crate was HUGE! Nearly as big as my 8' truck bed. I had to bring it home on dual axle trailer (it's a little bigger than most - 14K lbs. rating for moving tractor and stuff) The 75 watt cartridge addition in May last year cost us $11,500 and no shipping through the dealer we got the laser from. Normal price of $12K quoted.

In addition when we ordered the laser because we had went to a demonstration we qualified to get 30 watts free which was at that time reported to be a $6K value. We wanted more for our intended use, and opted to get 60 watts which was priced at $6K addition to laser cost. Our interest at that time was to cut out plush fur material to make our own Christmas stockings to embroider. The pass thru feature with the side door dropping down and a roll of 24" wide material sitting beside the laser worked perfectly. After a good deal of time creating the shapes and layout and reducing nodes to a minimum we were able to cut material out for 2 stockings on the 24"x48" table in about 2 minutes. It took longer to remove the cut pieces and scrap material and pull the roll out across the cutting table and smooth the fur down than to cut it. Laser cabinet is extremely large. We had to break it into 2 parts to get it into the 12'x32' building it is in. You should have been there to watch Paul our dealer and I uncrate the laser and get it into the doorway by ourselves. We had to carry it in by hand turned up edge ways.

299750
realize this picture is of a 24" x 48" cutting area!

Scott Shepherd
11-05-2014, 6:29 PM
You should have been there to watch Paul our dealer and I uncrate the laser and get it into the doorway by ourselves. We had to carry it in by hand turned up edge ways.

Paul Castello by any chance?

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 7:02 PM
Paul Castello by any chance?

No Scott, it was Paul Woodrich of Lord's Laser in KY. At that time I was 50 and would guess he was close to 60. He and I and my John Deere tractor ;)
299755299756

Paul Phillips
11-05-2014, 7:28 PM
Mike, I wonder if that $11,500 was the full retail price, I was quoted $9,600ea on my 60w tubes originally, but only paid about $6000ea for them after the "promotional discount". I'm curious if you can tell me if the tube that failed was used less that the other one or did you use them equally? It sounds like those of us with the dual cartridge set-up need to learn how to make the secondary tube last longer, I thought I was doing the right thing by using both tubes most of the time but I think there were times when I only needed low wattage for things I just used the top tube, not using the bottom one as often, I wonder if the fact that the bottom tube had slightly less use was a contributing factor to why it failed? I think the right way to do it is to always have both tubes selected and just use a smaller percentage of power instead of only using one tube on certain things, not sure if that's how you used yours but I sure would like to avoid another replacement if it's just a matter of changing some settings!

Scott Shepherd
11-05-2014, 7:40 PM
Love the reel setup Mike :) Great thinking!

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 8:22 PM
Love the reel setup Mike :) Great thinking!

Scott what the picture doesn't show is it rotates and holds 2 rolls. There's another one below the bottom of the picture. It's home made as you can tell, but for the one and only "prototype" I was pleased with it.

Mike Lassiter
11-05-2014, 8:54 PM
Mike, I wonder if that $11,500 was the full retail price, I was quoted $9,600ea on my 60w tubes originally, but only paid about $6000ea for them after the "promotional discount". I'm curious if you can tell me if the tube that failed was used less that the other one or did you use them equally? It sounds like those of us with the dual cartridge set-up need to learn how to make the secondary tube last longer, I thought I was doing the right thing by using both tubes most of the time but I think there were times when I only needed low wattage for things I just used the top tube, not using the bottom one as often, I wonder if the fact that the bottom tube had slightly less use was a contributing factor to why it failed? I think the right way to do it is to always have both tubes selected and just use a smaller percentage of power instead of only using one tube on certain things, not sure if that's how you used yours but I sure would like to avoid another replacement if it's just a matter of changing some settings!

Paul the tube that failed is 6 years old, the 75 watt we just got last May. I cut with both lasers always. Running both merely because I want to get done and have the increased power to do that. What I have been thinking is the 60 watt was likely already failing when we got the 75 watt cartridge. Being in a position of having 2 laser cartridges running together would really mask the original one failing as the new one would hide that I think. Understand they have always both ran together when cutting and as such are all I have ever had to experience. Cutting exterior siding for primary customer for much of her jobs and it was extremely slow with the single 60 watts. So we added the max we could to speed it up and thought we were then cutting with 135 watts total, but now I really think that wasn't the case. I had to run the file several times to get everything fully cut out and always attributed it to the exterior siding and glue that I have heard on here is difficult to cut. Again even after adding the 75 watts it was difficult to cut. So to me it just felt like crappy material that I just had to accept was how it was going to cut.
We don't run the laser daily as we are "home based" and don't always have work for it. Gradually even cutting 1/4" MDF got were I couldn't cut out something after running 10-15 minutes that was cutting out in the beginning of the run. Started having to run multiple times even after slowing down from settings that have worked great for as long as I have had both cartridges to use. Something obviously wrong. I began to notice the air exhausting out of the right rear of the cabinet where I have my computer setup was getting hotter as the laser ran. I began to notice when the air began to get hotter the cutting began to get poorer and this started out happening after running say 30 minutes or more, then began to happen after only 10-15 minutes. I let the machine continue running without using it until the air exhaust cooled down, and it would cut better; until it started getting warm again. This took just a few minutes in the end.
I ran test cuts using each laser individually and the 75 watt cut out the same were the 60 watt cut at first and gradually got weaker until it was not cutting at all. I created 5 rows of 10 1/2" squares and cut then right to left, top to bottom and when you turned the MDF over you could tell exactly the order of the cuts as the first few maybe cut out then continued fading away until there wasn't even a mark on the back at all. Someone with a single cartridge would not be able to do what we can by adding the extra cartridge. Our machine came from the factory already equipped for dual lasers all we had to do was add the second cartridge and go.

As to the cost of the 75 watt cartridge - I was told the cost $12K and would sell us one for $11.5K and free next day air shipping. In 2008 the word was the free 30 watts we could get was a $6K value, and as we wanted another 30 watts that was another $6K for the 60 watts. So I cannot say I got the good buddy deal or got screwed because that was what it was. I did feel good about the price I negotiated on the laser and accessories for after getting the quoted price that was supposed to have been discounted some few thousand dollars I made a counter offer that was about $3K less than quoted and it was accepted.

As I understood a few years later Paul advised that our machine as equipped new at that time would cost $53K, but also understood the price sort of kept rising until sales dropped and the price started coming back down to - to stimulate sales again.

As I understand you are replacing both of your now. I can say I have been very diligent about keeping the building temperature controlled - it stays at 74 degrees pretty much year round. I think that has helped extend the life of our original one, but that's just my belief (makes one feel good thinking they are doing all they can to maximize the life of things - may not help at all, but I'll keep on believing it anyway.

Paul Phillips
11-06-2014, 11:20 AM
Mike, that sounds exactly as what happened to me several weeks ago with power fading worse and worse. I have the Professional Series which is a step below yours but it does come with dual laser tubes also, what I noticed was that when cutting with the top tube it was fine and when using both tubes it started fading out at the end of the cut so it was easy to determine a bad tube. What I was getting at though, is that at least in my circumstance, I may have been using the top tube more than the bottom one, and from what I understand from things I've read on this forum, the laser tubes can actually fail faster if not used as much, (Dave Sheldrake can explain the technical details of the why). But I'm just wondering if my laser tube failure was caused by me not using it as much as the other one, IE. the one that's fine I use all the time, the one that failed= not as much use. So I think that with a dual laser setup the trick is to always use both tubes simultaneously, however my question would be, is it detrimental to the tubes if you are running both at lower power more often, or one at higher power? I just want to know if I'm not using it correctly so I can change my MO.

Dave Sheldrake
11-06-2014, 12:05 PM
(Dave Sheldrake can explain the technical details of the why). But I'm just wondering if my laser tube failure was caused by me not using it as much as the other one

More of a best guess really Paul, in DC tubes yes it can fail if not used due to electrode contamination / oxide contamination of the gas mix but on an RF with external electrodes and usually a far higher build quality, possible I'd guess however unlikely data may suggest it to be,one of those things that *appears* to be true but has no foundation that's easily provable or at least has no real supporting evidence past "It happens and can be demonstrated"

does it happen? it appears so, why does it happen...no idea really

cheers

Dave

Paul Phillips
11-06-2014, 4:03 PM
More of a best guess really Paul, in DC tubes yes it can fail if not used due to electrode contamination / oxide contamination of the gas mix but on an RF with external electrodes and usually a far higher build quality, possible I'd guess however unlikely data may suggest it to be,one of those things that *appears* to be true but has no foundation that's easily provable or at least has no real supporting evidence past "It happens and can be demonstrated"

does it happen? it appears so, why does it happen...no idea really

cheers

Dave

Thanks Dave, I'll take that to mean "it wasn't my fault"! See, I learn something valuable every time you post! :)