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Dan French
10-22-2014, 10:00 PM
Hi everyone. This my first post but I have been following for a few years and really enjoy the knowledge, insight about vintage tools.

I recently bought a jack size plane, 14", off the auction site for $2 plus shipping. It was hardly described and poorly photographed, but I took a chance. When I received it, the first thing I did was look for marks - sometimes the prior owner just does not know where to look or can't see past the rust. I found none, other than a sweetheart iron (bonus). But I was really intrigued when I popped off the frog and saw a frog bottom and seat I have never seen before (being mainly a bottom feeder price-wise).

After some research, including in this forum, it seems similar to the type of round sided bedrock style series that Stanley made for Keen Kutter and Winchester in the 1920's. However, there is no marking at all on the bed or lever cap. No "K", no "W", no "Made in USA". Nothing. It has the high front nob. It does not look like a Vaughan and Bushnell because the frog bed is completely milled, not hollowed out in the center. I don't know if the sweetheart iron is original, but the time period is right. Finally, the various screws from known Stanleys fit in this plane. I feel like it is a 1920's era Stanley made clone, just not for Keen Kutter or Winchester.

Perhaps it was made for a hardware chain that put its own decals on? I would be grateful of anyone can confirm or have any other ideas?

I can't seem to get the pictures uploaded, but it really looks like a K5 but without the markings.

thanks

Mel Miller
10-23-2014, 4:59 PM
It's pretty much impossible to help without seeing pictures.

Jim Koepke
10-23-2014, 5:13 PM
I recently bought a jack size plane, 14", off the auction site for $2 plus shipping. It was hardly described and poorly photographed, but I took a chance.

Sometimes that is the best way to get one on the cheap.

Looking through the sold listings doesn't reveal a 'jack plane' sold for $2. Do you have an item number so we can look at some of the bad pics?

Check the lateral adjustment lever.

If it has a disk and the tiller style it a Stanley product. Other styles could also be from Stanley.

Things have changed since this was written, but it should be easy to sort it out:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167711-posting-photos-as-of-June-2011

Another problem could be your image files are too large. Your software may allow you to save copies as jpeg files making it easier to upload them.

I am not sure if the early Bedrocks had any identification other than the lateral lever markings

jtk

Bill Moser
10-23-2014, 5:21 PM
I had problems trying to upload images recently. Per Dave Anderson, files have to be smaller than 150kb to upload.

David Weaver
10-23-2014, 5:32 PM
They will end up at that size, but I think the limiter will automatically convert files less than 2 mb. If they are larger than that or some similar number, then it will reject them. I've set the resolution down on my camera for any pictures I take on here so that I can just upload them.

Dan French
10-24-2014, 12:03 AM
298915

298916

298917

298918

298919298920298921

here are the pics! It was the size all right. The lateral adjuster has a twist. Not the usual Stanley type, but I think I have seen or read that the ones they did for Keen Kutter had the twist type.

Jim Koepke
10-24-2014, 11:17 AM
That is an odd duck.

There is always the likely chance the blade was replaced. After Stanley bought Union Plane Company in about 1920 they used Stanley SW blades in the old stock castings.

There is a ring in the base around the knob. That didn't start on the Bailey stile planes until about 1929, the Bedrocks had it in 1911, they also had square sides at that time.

The frog screws look rounded, unlike the very flat Stanley frog screws.

Here is a page on the Keen Kutter and Winchester models made by Stanley:

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/brkkcompare.htm

Clean it up, hone the blade and see how it does.

jtk

Daniel Rode
10-24-2014, 11:39 AM
I have a Keen Kutter K5, It's a round side bedrock style from the same era. While your pictures show a very similar plane, there are some differences. The absence of K5 cast into the bed being a big one. By and large though, it's looks like another bedrock clone. Mine is nothing special and no better than a Bailey style, but it works well.

For $14, clean it up and see how it works. My guess it there's a nice plane under that rust :)

steven c newman
10-24-2014, 1:20 PM
Wonder IF it might be a V&B? Vaughn & Bushnell? They were clones of Bedrocks as well.

Dan French
10-24-2014, 1:41 PM
that was my first thought, but the V&B frog seating is hollowed out in the middle and has the two extra adjusting screws at the back.
Looking at the link that Jim provided, it looks exactly like the K5, but with out the casting in the bed. Even the twist arm is right.

Also, the front nob is extra tall, like the K5, and the back tote has rounded sides, not flat like many post WWII declining quality planes.

I am thinking its Stanley made at the same time period of the Keen and Winchester clones, perhaps for another chain store that put a decal only on it, which has since been lost.

In any event, I am excited to have my first bedrock-style frog plane, and it should make a great user.

I will report back if any other marks show up after de-rusting.

Mel Miller
10-24-2014, 7:45 PM
How wide is the blade?

Stew Denton
10-24-2014, 10:00 PM
Dan, the frog and also the bed appear to exactly match my 604 Bedrock, with the exception of the double pin frog tightening set up, and the boat tiller adjuster lever handle as was mentioned above, features which Stanley apparently did not include on planes made for other companies. My 604 is late 20s early 30s vintage. Also as was mentioned above, the Stanley machine screw heads were mostly square.

The fact that you mentioned, that known Stanley machine screws fit this plane is almost a smoking gun, in my view. Stanley machine screws may fit some other brands of planes, I don't know, but do know that the old Stanley planes are well known for not using standard machine screw threads.

I've looked at other planes enough to know that many features on other brands look like Stanley planes, but there always seem to be some differences. Other features that match my plane are the knob and tote shape, and the shape of the ring on the base around the knob. Still another matching feature is the nut that holds the tote and knob on. There may be other planes that have similar nuts, but none of the other brands of planes that I have do, and some of the others that are somewhat similar have subtle shape differences.

In short, I think that there is a very high probability that the plane is a Bed Rock type that Stanley made, and think that in fact there is very little doubt. I don't know, however, who the plane was made for.

Great job, in my view it looks like you ended up with a very good plane for an extremely reasonable price. Reasonable really doesn't describe the price, I guess, more like you ended up with a very nice used Lincoln Continental for a ratty used Corvair price.

Regards,

Stew