Which plane to buy? Tuning tenons

[Matt Day]

I mostly use electrons for cutting M&T's, but I don't have a good means to clean up the tenon shoulder and fine tune the cheeks. I was going to ask for a shoulder plane for Christmas, but I'm not sure that's the best first plane I should get. Since I normally use the TS for cutting tenons, I don't think I need the router plane.

The planes I have been reading about are:

Rabbet Block plane
Float
Skew Block Plane
Shoulder plane

Could I have some guidance on which to consider most?

Thanks

[lowell holmes]

Router plane to size the tenons, bench chisel to straighten shoulders. I don't have much luck with a shoulder plane.

I have all of the above. I do use a float on occasions, but the router plane does a better job.

[steven c newman]

A shoulder plane is supposed to work, but, all I have is a Wards #78 rebate plane. I just remove the depth stop on the right-hand side, and lay the plane on it's side. I can also stand it up as plane right up the the shoulders

I saw a tenon first, then remove most of the waste with a few whacks of a chisel, then the plane comes along and smooths things out.

[Tom Vanzant]

Router plane for tenon cheeks...registers on face of board = cheek parallel to face. Bench chisel in knifed lines for shoulders.

[Jim Koepke]

Matt,

Welcome to the cave by the Creek.

My chosen tool depends on how big is the tenon needing to be trimmed. Most of the time a wide chisel works fine.

Here is one way to do it: Video Link (http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/chisel-tricks-for-hand-cut-joinery.aspx?&lookup=auto&V18=&V19=&V20=&V21=&V22=&V23=&V24=&V25=&V26=&V53=&V54=&Taun_Per_Flag=true&&utm_source=email&utm_medium=eletter&utm_content=fw_eletter&utm_campaign=fine-woodworking-eletter)

There is an odd ball tool of sorts that gets used at times which is a #10-1/2 Stanley/Bailey plane. Not a common find.

Patrick Leach write up on the #10-1/2 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num10.5)

Another of my users for this an old 2" wood bodied rabbet plane. That is also one of the not found at every yard sale variety of planes.

From your list above a rabbet block plane may be your best choice. Not sure if anyone makes a skew rabbet block plane.

Router planes are a common choice because of being able to set the depth of the blade and the accuracy. They can be tedious if there is more than a little material to remove.

One problem people have is forgetting about keeping the tenon centered when fitting. Having clearly marked lines to work to helps to avoid this.

jtk

[steven c newman]

If you can find one, a Stanley #140 is a skewed rebate Block Plane

Millers Falls made a copy of it

L-N or Veritas now make a version

I made a Traditional Chinese Edge plane awhile back. It can be used for short tenons, less than 3/4" long.

[Tom M King]

Paring chisel, and iwasaki extra fine wood file.

[Greg Berlin]

Definitely router plane and sharp chisel like everyone else. Skew block I'll sometimes use just remove some of the waste when I've left too much waste on the waste side of the line but I always go to the router plane for fine tuning and parallel edges. You can remove as much it as little as you need to get the fit just right. I've heard good things about floats, but never used one. I owned a shoulder plane once and sold it. Never found it handy and it generally got me in more trouble than just a sharp chisel. But router plane and sharp chisel is the best, quickest, and easiest way for me. If I were to do large scale tenons, like 3-4" deep tenons that are 4-6" wide, the I'd say a jack rabbet plane would be handy. But that's so rare that I'm ever doing tenons that large. In other words, I'd i made a living out of making roubo workbenches, id probably own a jack rabbet plane for those hefty large tenons.

[David Weaver]

Bed float for planes. You could also use a long chisel for it with no problem, but the bed float is ideal.

[Jim Koepke]

Matt,

Looking at all of the answers (opinions), what may be a good idea is to think about what other tasks a new tool might perform.

A float or a shear file is a useful tool for working surfaces other than a tenon.

Same with a block rabbet plane and any of the other tools mentioned.

The one that will be the most useful in the most situations may be the most practical to add to your shop.

jtk

[Matt Day]

Thanks all. I don't see myself using a router plane for much else besides tenon cheeks, so it would likely be a 1 use tool for me. I'm leaning toward the block rabbet plane or skew block plane since i think i can use them more often fir other tasks

[David Weaver]

I don't know how many other people here have used a plane bed float to clean a small tenon, maybe I'll make a video of it at some point.

I think if you are doing a lot of cabinet sized tenons, you're not going to find those two types of planes very useful, they are too big.

With a plane bed float, you have registration against a tenon and cutting all of the way to the corners of the float. All you do is place the float against the tenon, and put your thumb on it to keep it registered against the tenon. Determine how heavy the cut will be and adjust your thumb pressure as needed and push once, maybe twice. This is a matter of 5 seconds. and then recheck your fit.

It is also useful for mis-cuts on pins when fitting half blinds or something. just float to the mark, same method.

I have no clue how much the bed floats cost now, but they were about $55 when I got mine and indefinitely sharpenable with a simple xslim or xxslim file.

[Greg Berlin]

You'd be surprised how useful a router plane can be, especially when doing dadoes, stopped dadoes, tenons, truing up grooves, etc. Works really well. You can pick up an old stanley 71 or 71 1/2 off ebay fairly cheap. Will work about the same as a new veritas or lie neilsen. Or make a cheap one like the paul sellers manmade router plane. But I'm willing to try to a plane float too like David says. I'd be interested to see how that works and for the $65 it costs, it might be worth a shot too.

[David Weaver]

I don't know if I skipped mentioning it, for those folks who don't like the idea of sharpening a saw, the floats do have to be sharpened to start, but less is more (just follow the profile that's there until you get bare metal).

I agree above about the router plane. Not something i use on tenons, but very useful for all kinds of other stuff. As mentioned above, I have also never felt that there was anything missing with the stanley router plane, and LV's irons fit in the stanley router planes, so if you can find one cheap, you can always add irons easily (i've never found one in the wild with more than the iron that was in it).

[Matt Day]

Thanks for advice David. I'd love to see a video on using the plane bed float, as I can't find anything online about using them.

Maybe i'll keep an eye it for a Stanley router plane, as it does intrigue me. I had originally thought about buying new only, and that plunking down $250 for the Veritas was too much. Any suggestions on buying a used router plane? Go with a Stanley from ebay?

What plane bed float do you recommend?

I'm still considering the rabbet plane and skew plane.

[lowell holmes]

I think your price on the LV router plane is much too high. You may want to check it again.

[David Weaver]

Thanks for advice David. I'd love to see a video on using the plane bed float, as I can't find anything online about using them.

Maybe i'll keep an eye it for a Stanley router plane, as it does intrigue me. I had originally thought about buying new only, and that plunking down $250 for the Veritas was too much. Any suggestions on buying a used router plane? Go with a Stanley from ebay?

What plane bed float do you recommend?

I'm still considering the rabbet plane and skew plane.

I like LN's thin plane bed float (I think they have one that's rigid and one that's thinner).

For router plane, any stanley (like a 71) or other make that's equivalent.

I'd buy on price.

I'm sure the planes that LN and LV make are a little better, but I don't ever use a router plane for anything other than cleaning out dados.

[Greg Berlin]

Yeah It's only $149 new at lee valley.

[john zulu]

I found a router plane more useful then shoulder planes.....

[Greg Berlin]

I always wondered about the LV Japanese Milled Files as use as a float. I think it would work about the same as a lie neilsen float for 1/3 cost. Might be worth a look. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42524&p=63451

[Richard Verwoest]

ok, I'll throw a monkey wrench into this.....I prefer a shoulder plane. As others, I have floats, router plane, chisels, etc. One other thing to consider, ease of sharpening since you do not use hand tools often. The blade on a shoulder plane is easy to sharpen. Depending on the size of tenons most used, will determine what size shoulder plane. If you go with a float, you want the LN bed float. It is the widest(hardest to make on your own) and the teeth run from edge to edge. Around 70 bucks.

Richard

[paul cottingham]

Shoulder plane here as well. I often use it to finish up work on a tenon after paring with a chisel.

[Paul Sidener]

I use a shoulder plane and a router plane. The router plane will make it easier to do multiple tenons, and keep them the same. You will get more use out router plane than you think. I also use it to clean up rabbets and dados.

[Mike Allen1010]

Shoulder plane 100%. I use it for both cheeks and shoulders.

For cheeks, no depth adjustment like a router plane and I have no trouble keeping the cheeks parallel to the stock face. More important, great for shoulders. Yes , I start w/ chisel in the knife line, but if you're fitting 4 shoulder tendon and need to trim a 32nd." off the back shoulder for tight fit on the show shoulder, much easier for me to do with shoulder plane than a chisel. Same for breadboard ends -much faster and more accurate for me than a chisel. YMMV

Cheers, Mike

[lowell holmes]

I see no consensus here. I guess you pay your money and take your choice. :)

[Matt Day]

Sounds like I need a shoulder plane, router plane, and a float! Back to where I started it seems.

[Paul Sidener]

Sounds like I need a shoulder plane, router plane, and a float! Back to where I started it seems.

Not really. There are many ways to accomplish a task. Figure out how you would cut your tenons, and work towards that. I started with a shoulder plane. After a while I wanted to have more consistency in my work. I bought a router plane. My tenons started fitting better and were repeatable, when I had a bunch to do. I don't have a float, some day I may see the need for one. You can cut a tenon with just a saw, it will be rough. You can use a rabbet plane, if you like. Use what you have and refine from there.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I use a shoulder plane with occasional help from a sharp chisel. I have a Stanley No. 92 from the modern Sweetheart line, not a vintage 92. I bought it before I learned to look for vintage tools for better quality and value, but I've been very, very happy with this one. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know better.

[Brian Holcombe]

IMO, it depends a lot on what size tenons your cutting. I always, somehow end up working on massive tenons on my projects and they benefit greatly from having a router plane and should plane handy. I use the router plane for faces and should plane for shoulders.

However, you can do all of this with a sharp chisel that has a flat back. It's just a bit more difficult.

I choose based on the project, if I'm cutting massive through tenons then I'm using the router plane to make sure they are true. If I'm cutting tiny tenons for a cabinet door frame, then no, I'm not going to bother with using anything more than a chisel.

I use floats more often for mortises than tenons, for through tenons they are an awesome tool.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have the pair of LN joinery floats - cheek float and face float. These two made as dramatic improvement in fitting tenons as anything short of my TS tenon jig. Remarkable - that's all I can tell you. Easy to use, and very quick. Cheek float most commonly used inside the mortise.

And - a shoulder plane. I have the large LN - wish I had the medium instead, because easier to grab, and I've never needed the blade width of the large. I watched a video or read a photo story from Derek C, and that made the light go off on how to use it - I had been holding that darn thing all wrong. Duh !! Works like a charm.

Have the usual suspects in block planes including rabbet and skew, and a large router plane. All good for their purpose, but I don't think I have used them for tenons since I got the floats and learned my way around the shoulder plane.

[Tom M King]

I always wondered about the LV Japanese Milled Files as use as a float. I think it would work about the same as a lie neilsen float for 1/3 cost. Might be worth a look. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42524&p=63451
That's what I use, and they work great. Tenon size will determine if one is right for the job though. I used the small x-fine for the small tenons on a window sash project to fit hundreds of small tenons, and I wouldn't have wanted to be without it. I do use the larger ones once in a while if one is the right size..

[lowell holmes]

[QUOTE=Kent A Bathurst;2326120]I have the pair of LN joinery floats - cheek float and face float. These two made as dramatic improvement in fitting tenons as anything short of my TS tenon jig. Remarkable - that's all I can tell you. Easy to use, and very quick. Cheek float most commonly used inside the mortise. And - a shoulder plane. I watched a video or read a photo story from Derek C, and that made the light go off on how to use it - I had been holding that darn thing all wrong. Duh !! Works like a charm.

Where would one find the video or photo story you spoke about. I may be holding it wrong as well. :)

[Jim Koepke]

I see no consensus here. I guess you pay your money and take your choice. :)

Most likely it is the different methods which with people have become comfortable.

A router plane with a depth stop takes a lot of the fear out of the equation. Set the depth stop and go to work. Working from both sides keeps the tenon centered. Remember to check the fit.

A plane, whether it is a shoulder or a rabbet plane takes a bit more care during the work. One has to constantly check for fit.

Paring with a chisel takes a steady hand and a lot of care while remembering to check the fit.

Using a float or a shear file requires a different skill set and checking the fit often.

Then comes the error of removing too much material. Glue a shaving or two on the tenon and check the fit.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Where would one find the video or photo story you spoke about. I may be holding it wrong as well. :)

Derek has a website:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

That is the home page. Check the categories below for a wealth of information.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

Derek has a website:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

That is the home page. Check the categories below for a wealth of information.

jtk

It has been a long time, so I went looking. I think it must have been here:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallShoulderPlane.html


As you scroll down, you will come to later section[s] where he is holding it - especially where he is using it on the pull stroke for trimming the shoulders. That is the technique I had never even thought of - and it works wonderfully for me. Easy to control, move, and keep registered against the shoulder. Made all the difference in the world. I don't have the LV, I have the LN, so I am hooking finger[s] thru the blade "throat". It doesn't have the round thumb hole [or, whatever it is called].

[lowell holmes]

I found the same site. I don't know why I never knew how to hold the plane. It certainly makes a difference.