More Beech Plane Ideas?

[David Weaver]

I've got some beech left, enough to make two more planes. I think I'll probably make another jointer with the one stick because I don't have the heart to cut it down.

With the other, I'm either going to save it to make a few dais, or make another jack sized plane. I don't want to make pointless planes, though (planes that don't get used much), and I don't want to use it to make planes I can make out of 8/4 - I have a ton of that.

I'm thinking that a jack sized panel raising plane built on the skew (one of the few large planes I'd build with a single iron) might be a good use for it. It's something I'd actually use, as the only furniture I ever really build is casework and doors.

Any other ides?

I could just make another jack and keep one rank set and the other much more mildly set. It might be more practical to make a jack with a short open offset handle (it would still have a double iron of course) and an iron narrower than the 2 1/2" iron that's in the jack I just finished.

Jack, raised panel plane, what else?

[Kees Heiden]

Panel raiser was the first thing I thought about too. How about a specific endgrain plane a strikeblock with low bedding and single iron? Who knows when it comes in handy.

[David Weaver]

That's not a bad idea. I'd probably build a plane like that out of a heavier wood, though I have some purpleheart, which is a particularly ugly wood, but it would be good for that.

I just emailed horizon to find out if they have more. We'll see if they do.

I don't want to sell my three favorite wooden planes, so I don't really need to make another jack. I have a badger plane that could be easily fenced to cut raised panels, but I'll probably make one, anyway. The only itch I'm thinking about with another jack is the offset handle. The mathiesen type that I copied is not uncomfortable, so much it's different - like pushing a shovel from the end of the handle - because the handle is way on the back.

We'll see. I'll do a panel raiser and leave the big stick for now. I've got enough large irons (over 2") to make four or six more planes.

[Chuck Nickerson]

I also vote for the panel raiser. The other options are covered in my toolset, but I do need to build a small assortment of panel raisers.

[Steve Voigt]

I'd consider making a moving fillister or plow.

[David Weaver]

That's a possibility, too.

[David Weaver]

I also vote for the panel raiser. The other options are covered in my toolset, but I do need to build a small assortment of panel raisers.

Assortment!!

[steven c newman]

Maybe one of GE HONG's Plough/rebate planes?
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I added a front knob to mine, though. He also made one with the metal skate. Maybe one could build a Moving Fillister style of plane??

[David Weaver]

One of hong's planes is a decent idea, too. Especially one with a double iron.

I'm thinking for this stuff, a closed mortise plane (like hong's bench planes) since I could probably squeeze most moving fillister type planes out of 8/4 beech.

[Graham Haydon]

Badger Plane? Jack plane sized, double iron, useful for wide rebates.

[David Weaver]

Graham, that's on the radar, too, since I have a decent quality badger plane on hand to copy.

Most badger planes I see have been beaten to death and have a lot of erosion near the mouth, and an old 18th century panel raiser that I had at one point was like that and it made it a bear to use. It was also gigantic, I think probably intended for architectural work.

I saw something earlier today, a brass strip across the right side of a badger plane that protects the corners, that I thought was a fantastic idea. I've seen them boxed also, but boxing always presents maintenance issues in the long term.

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[Graham Haydon]

I'm lucky, UK ebay always seems pretty good on wooden planes. I bought a badger a while back and it was near perfect for about £10.00. I must confess I've not used the thing yet so perhaps it falls at the "pointless" hurdle. Nice idea with the brass! Next thing they'll be making whole planes outta metal :)

[David Weaver]

You can do OK with wood planes here, too, but you have to shop longer than you do in the UK. I think my badger plane was about $20, and I got it just because it's in good shape. I'll admit that I haven't used it, either, other than test cuts.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Assortment!!

I work (ok, play) in a couple of different styles and would like a couple widths of each. My eye notices when an armoire's panel has the exact same field as a small box's panel. The strangest details can divert my attention.

[ernest dubois]

What are the blades you are using for your planes David?

[David Weaver]

Vintage double irons from the UK, and some from the US. Anywhere I can get a clean set that still has a good shape cap iron and iron with little use. I don't much care for modern looking irons in a beech bench plane.

[David Weaver]

I work (ok, play) in a couple of different styles and would like a couple widths of each. My eye notices when an armoire's panel has the exact same field as a small box's panel. The strangest details can divert my attention.

I knew exactly what you mean right when you said it. It'd be nice to have three different sizes for different sized work.

[ernest dubois]

I have made up a joiner or two I use primarily to shoot the edges of my veneer and these joiners have excessively narrow blades, oh, something like 32 mm and, could it be 25 mm on the other. I like so much how they work. Feedback maybe we could put it that way, such good feedback.

[David Weaver]

What is the style of those planes, are they open mortise, or laminated, or closed mortise like a vintage plane, and with a wedge and abutments?

[ernest dubois]

They are laminated David. All very modern you know.

[David Weaver]

I'm a backwards individual, so I have no idea how to make a laminated plane! Well, I guess infills are laminated, I've laminated a couple of those.

[ernest dubois]

But I have such narrow plane blades, old laminated the way you like so much, in these traditional plane bodies. They are compatible.

[David Weaver]

Yes, I like the old irons. I like all of the irons out there, actually, I just don't like flat irons in wedge planes or irons that look like they were cut on a CNC in a single-piece mortised plane.

Of course, even on a laminated plane, the old irons looked better, and they are my personal preference when the task gets away from taking the most feet of .001" shavings before resharpening and to actual working of wood from rough.

[ernest dubois]

The Ulmia scrub plane, it has one ugly blade in it, quite narrow, wedged, but then with a little cross pin set-up, so no abutments, maybe you know it. I like this plane. You don't like the CNC blades because they are ugly or is something to do with performance?

[David Weaver]

You don't like the CNC blades because they are ugly or is something to do with performance?

Just the looks. The newly made irons that are out there from all of the makers now are very good quality. Even the $12 HSS irons that come from mujingfang are very good. We are not going to see irons that look like vintage irons again, though.

Even when the UK makers stopped making laminated irons, they still kept the aesthetic and the taper in their irons - I just like they way they looked.

I like the ulmia planes just fine as long as you don't have to faff with getting the iron in and out of the primus adjustment setup. What a pain!

[ernest dubois]

No, stick with the basic planes with hammer adjustment, that's just fine.

I am playing with the idea of getting a stubby thick iron blade made up, the modern look I like so much, by the smid, one that's laminated with some good Swedish steel. It's going to cost a few cents.

[David Weaver]

High carbon Swedish is nice.

[steven c newman]

Maintainence days. I figured these two could use a little workout
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Ohio Tool Co. #81 Try plane. 22" long. That knob does help, too.
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This one is a double ironed, 18" long jack/try based on GE Hong's videos. I tried the single iron like he used, like a chipbreaker added to it better. Makes nice curlie things. Again, just me, knob helps me push it along. For others, knob is optional...

Might have an iron plane about done, too
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Millers Falls #14.

[David Weaver]

So far, I have not heard back from Horizon. I sent an email to them mid last week, or maybe before, which I thought might be an easier way to describe what I wanted. That didn't get a response.

And I called them today and got a really nice girl who was very pleasant, and she said she'd get a salesperson to call me back, but she thought that something like 16/4 beech would have been something that was special order. I didn't, however, get a call back from a salesperson. Stating that I was only looking for 50 bd feet probably doesn't help get any attention. I'll keep trying though. They're only 2 1/2 hours from here, but I'd rather not make the drive to get there and find they don't have anything.

Bummer so far! I may have to harrass and annoy mike digity to see if he'll come out of partial retirement to make me some.

[Tony Shea]

So far, I have not heard back from Horizon. I sent an email to them mid last week, or maybe before, which I thought might be an easier way to describe what I wanted. That didn't get a response.

And I called them today and got a really nice girl who was very pleasant, and she said she'd get a salesperson to call me back, but she thought that something like 16/4 beech would have been something that was special order. I didn't, however, get a call back from a salesperson. Stating that I was only looking for 50 bd feet probably doesn't help get any attention. I'll keep trying though. They're only 2 1/2 hours from here, but I'd rather not make the drive to get there and find they don't have anything.

Bummer so far! I may have to harrass and annoy mike digity to see if he'll come out of partial retirement to make me some.

Funny you say that David, I sent them an email about two weeks ago asking them for the same exact thing 16/4 beech. I even said in the email I would settle for maple only because im more interested in getting a working plane than trying to keep with traditional materials. The Beech would def be a lot nicer to make a plane with though. I have struck out everywhere I have looked and asked for this material. It is ridiculous that it is so difficult to find this material.

[David Weaver]

There is 16/4 maple on Highland lumber's retail list, but it's 10 bucks a be foot plus shipping, and you'd need to get some other qs maple for the handle.

[Judson Green]

Would you skew the iron on your badger or just go straight?

PS I knew nothing about a badger plane before this thread. Must the iron be skewed to be a badger plane? How is it different than a rabbit plane?

[David Weaver]

I'd skew it. I've never seen a badger plane that wasn't skewed. The only reason to skew a plane, well, there are two - first reason on something like a large moulding plane would be to engage a complex profile a little at a time and get a good cut start. I have no idea if any old cornice planes are skewed, though, most had handles for a second person or a hole to tie a rope on.

The second is because a skewed plane can shear off grain, instead of pushing or stripping it off. To get an idea of what I mean, take a plane and plane directly across grain on some medium hardwood. Then take the plane and plane with it skewed 25 degrees to the left. The cut will be miles better across the grain with the skewed plane because the iron is cutting the straws at the right side rather than engaging each straw all at once, stripping some of them from the surface of the wood.

I did get a hold of horizon, and they do have some beech. I'm waiting back to hear from them about the stock, it's sort of a slow process and the beech is expensive, and they said the next batch will be more expensive (more than 16/4 maple costs). I can understand their position, though, there's nothing nice about milling or drying 16/4 beech, and they hinted that they're only doing it because nobody else is and I'd suppose for them that it's probably not a money maker (they didn't say that) even at the high price.

However, nobody should order until I've completed my order :)

[David Weaver]

Funny you say that David, I sent them an email about two weeks ago asking them for the same exact thing 16/4 beech. I even said in the email I would settle for maple only because im more interested in getting a working plane than trying to keep with traditional materials. The Beech would def be a lot nicer to make a plane with though. I have struck out everywhere I have looked and asked for this material. It is ridiculous that it is so difficult to find this material.

Hearne has 16/4 maple for about $10.50 a bd foot or something like that for boards less than 9". You could ask them to get as close to 8" as possible, as that would allow finishing two full width jointer/try planes and it would be easier to get a hold of than beech. The difference I've noticed between maple and beech is that beech is more forgiving and I like the way it grips the wedge a little better...and maple makes for a loud plane (but still a good plane)

[Judson Green]

I guess I don't understand how a badger plane is different than a simple rabbiting plane.

[David Weaver]

It cuts a show surface across the grain. A rabbeting plane is usually cutting a surface that will be covered in a joint if it's cutting across the grain.

(You'll find a lot of old rabbet planes are skewed, though, as are dado planes).

[Zach Dillinger]

Well... you could make me a nice 18th c. single iron fore plane and I'll pay you handsomely for the effort! I need a new jack and don't have time to make it myself at the moment. :)

[David Weaver]

Single iron planes. I wouldn't know how they'd work :)

Just kidding. There's a couple of guys making them already, and I doubt I could make them better.

One of the things I'm going to make for me is a 2 1/2" double iron continental smoother. I really like those. Small sizes are everywhere. A big one would be interesting because you can two hand them.

[Matthew N. Masail]

how about a toted smoother, 45 or 50 with double iron. I Imagine the lower CE (center of effort if to borrow a term from Derek Cohen) would help with the lower mass of a wooden plane and feel more like a no.4. Beech wouldn't be my first choice though for wight reasons, does it have to be beech? (I know I'm not following with the beech love... sorry)

[David Weaver]

It could really be anything, I guess. I just like the way beech looks, but don't love its (lack of) weight for smoothers (thus no coffin smoothers out of it). A handled smoother is not a bad idea, though they still do have a high center. The preference for continental planes in that size is that you can literally get two hands of power on them and the lack of weight isn't as noticeable. The ebony muji planes are about as heavy as a medium sized coffin smoothers, but you can use them in heavy work a lot better.

I may yet try some maple, but remember from making a couple of moulding planes out of it that it's not as friendly to a hand-tools-only type as beech, and errant strokes of a float or a chisel back into the grain make bigger nasties than on beech.

[Tony Shea]

I did get a hold of horizon, and they do have some beech. I'm waiting back to hear from them about the stock, it's sort of a slow process and the beech is expensive, and they said the next batch will be more expensive (more than 16/4 maple costs). I can understand their position, though, there's nothing nice about milling or drying 16/4 beech, and they hinted that they're only doing it because nobody else is and I'd suppose for them that it's probably not a money maker (they didn't say that) even at the high price.

So how much more are they getting for the Beech? Interesting that they still have not answered two emails I've sent them. I'm sure I would do much better calling them but by the time Im out of work it is far too late and far too early when I go into work. I am with you on how nice Beech is to work with. I have come across some old 7/8" shelves that came from an old library that were torn out. I used a lot of the stock for the bottom shelf of my bench build an absolutely loved working it. It was like working with walnut but took a polish off my smoother like maple does. I didn't have to chop any mortises but planed a bunch of rabbets and surfaced them all down to 3/4" with hand planes, this ended up being some of my favorite wood to work with next to pear and apple.

[David Weaver]

It's not that easy to get a hold of anyone by phone, either. Just south of $14 a foot for the current stuff, but it is almost out. They have more air drying to go in the kiln.

[David Weaver]

Well, that escalated quickly. My wood is coming early next week. I'll take a picture of it for anyone who is thinking about buying beech. The pictures of the stuff they sent me is pretty much dead QS - it pretty much matches the price, can't really complain.

It makes for an expensive hobby, though!!

[David Weaver]

Pictures of the goods - a lifetime supply for a hobbyist like me. I'm stoked!

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[Kees Heiden]

Are you sure it is beech? (Just kidding). When I look at the endgrain of my rough sawn boards, the most obvious feature are the rays. In these small pictures on my cellphone I can't see them.

It sure looks like a big haul! Enough for a new career as planemaker.

[David Weaver]

It'll look better once its planed and has a little bit of oil on it. It's a bit dull to look at as wood until you've worked with it, then it's more exciting.

I hope not ever any career as a planemaker - right now I can do the planes as well as I want them for users, but "planemakers" have to worry about them being photo perfect for customers used to getting things that come from CNC machines! It should be enough for me to make every type of bench and specialty plane that I'll ever want to make, though (I have about 80 to 100 BF of 8/4 and 4/4 beech and then some euro pear and a few other specialty blanks).

[Matthew N. Masail]

Congrats !

[David Weaver]

I didn't have a great sense of how much wood this was going to be until I actually got it. I ordered 55 board feet, and I think they may have given me a bit more than that (though I didn't measure yet). The shipping bill said 250 pounds.

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There are 12 billets, with the largest two on the top. The top billet is literally large enough to build two jointers and two jacks by itself.

What I learned dealing with horizon, as you might have gathered, i didn't have a lot of patience early on when it took me a while to get a hold of someone and get a response. But, once I got a hold of someone, they are on the extreme end of communication, discussing what I was getting the wood for, what proportions I'd like, and then pulling the wood, taking pictures of it to confirm it's what I wanted, arranging freight and then sending me a message to tell me the day it was picked up and when I'd expect to get it. It's like old school, where you feel like they're spending more time getting it right than you would be willing to if you were selling.

Every single piece is good enough to make a top shelf plane, there is no having to pick through it for the "good ones" and figuring out what to do with the marginal ones.

(Plus I have a couple of billets left from prashun that I can make another couple of planes or tools from).

After fiddling around for so long looking here or there for 16/4 beech, quartered, I'm so glad to have enough now that I don't need to worry about looking for it again.