Winter's Coming!! Snow Blower Suggestions

[Andrew Kertesz]

I have a single stage snow blower but after last winter it about killed me and my arthritis is getting worse. I'm looking for a 2 stage self propelled (not necessarily multi-speed) snow blower in the $600.00 range. Anybody have any suggestions on which to buy and/or stay away from? Thanks...

[ken masoumi]

I had the same question last year ,started this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?211388-need-a-snow-blower-suggestions&highlight=need+a+snowblower) thread ,ended up buying an Ariens (240014) (http://www.snowblowersdirect.com/Ariens-920014-Snow-Thrower/p4871.html),it is (was) over $1000 and highly recommend it.If you could find a slightly used one that fits your budget,you will not regret buying this blower,very reliable and well built.

[Dave Cullen]

I've been thinking about upgrading my snowblower as well. I have a small Craftsman 2 stage that's served me well for 18 years but it's getting tired. What I don't like about it (other than a stalling issue) is that the controls are too low and I have to bend over a lot... bad for the old back. Modern units all have the chute and gear select controls up high. Some have steering control capability which would reduce the "man handling" required in maneuvering. That's what I'll be looking for.

The big box stores already have snow blowers out on display here in CT. Check their web sites and look at the reviews. But for your budget, you should be checking craigslist for a used one.

Other things I'm looking for: I insist on having a throttle control. Some models don't have that any more, they run full speed all the time. A waste of fuel when you need to stop and clean off your car or something. I'd also like to avoid Chinese made engines, based on reviews. I'm not sure if either feature is possible any more, but that's what I'm looking for.

The thread in Ken's link is a good read too.

[Bryan Rocker]

I bought a 2 stage 24" Ariens snow blower and it works great! I can clear my drive way in 20 mins and it throws the snow very well. Be careful of what you buy many of them are junk. I would also highly recommend that what ever brand you get that you get some sheer pins/bolts, I didn't and when I did sheer one it made me go run up to the borg to get one....

[Matt Meiser]

Andrew come up to Michigan to Lecklers on Telegraph in Lasalle and buy a Husqvarna. Can't say if it's any better or worse than any other but the service is outstanding. All my lawn and garden equipment comes from them--I don't even shop around anymore.

[Andrew Kertesz]

Matt, sounded like a good idea but they don't have any listed on their website...

[Matt Meiser]

No they really don't do the web other than the site Stihl provides.

[Lee Schierer]

I highly recommend a Simplicity Snowblower. I've had mine for 5-6 years and it still starts on the first pull and throws snow faster and farther than any machine I've eve used. We average 90+ inches of heavy wet snow here each winter and I have yet to clog it. I do spray the auger and chute with silicone prior to use. Mine is an 8 Hp. There are good slid machines made in he U.S.

[Phil Thien]

Good news: We aren't going to get much snow here in the U.S. this winter. Just save your dollars, I'm expecting many days in the 40's and 50's and golf (for those that play) in December.

[Andrew Kertesz]

Phil, I'm curious as to whether you have a direct line somewhere for this information....:D

[Don Morris]

We (the 10 homes around a cul-du-sac) went in together to get a large two stage electric start Craftsman over 15 years ago. It's showing signs of aging, but it works well and we love the electric start. I'd be a little concerned about the newer Sears products. As Matt Meiser said, Husqvarna has a great machine. I believe it was developed over in Sweden where there is a huge need to have a good reliable snow thrower. Price for them was a little high when I recently looked for a possible replacement. The place where I got my Stihl equipment also only carries Husqvarna. That should give you an idea of the quality of that product. They only carry top of line stuff. But if I could get one at a reasonable price, I wouldn't hesitate. $600.00 is at the lower end of good quality equipment for the features most people seem to want: 2 stage, electric start, 24" wide, other than cheep Chinese motor, quality materials, reliable. Good hunting for the perfect $600.00 snow thrower.

[Rich Riddle]

The best one I ever owned was a Honda 828, but they are darn expensive. I gave it to a friend in Michigan because we had so little snow down here that it didn't work well. Second to that, I recommend the Husqvarna others have mentioned.

[Brett Robson]

I can give a recommendation for one to stay away from :

http://www.amazon.com/Powerland-PDST24-Propelled-Electric-Compliant/dp/B003BLPJDI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1413725699&sr=8-3&keywords=powerland+equipment

I bought one of these from Costco a few years back. It was terrible right out of the box. If I was fortunate enough to get it started, the machine could barely throw 4" of dry snow 10' away! I struggled with it for two winters then sold the blasted thing and bought a new Cub Cadet blower.

The Cub's (http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CubCadetFullPageArticleDisplayView?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=14101&pageView=Cubcadet_Residential/2013_XSeries_SnowThrowers_ProductVideo.html) been flawless.

[Jerome Stanek]

I bought a used Ariens back in the 70s and had it to 5 years ago when the engine finally gave out. I bought a Husqvarna and have had more trouble keeping it going than my old Ariens. If I would get a new one it would be another Ariens.

[Phil Thien]

I'm surprised when I read these threads that the Toro name never comes up. My single-stage Toro has done everything I've needed, and I live in Milwaukee (so we know snow). In fact, I'd never consider a two-stage because they seem soooo slow compared to my 6.5-HP 2-cycle single-stage. I'm always done with my driveway faster than any of the two-stage users around me.

BUT, Toro does make two-stage snow blowers. And yet in these threads, their name never comes up. Has anyone used one? Are they not any good?

[ray hampton]

Good news: We aren't going to get much snow here in the U.S. this winter. Just save your dollars, I'm expecting many days in the 40's and 50's and golf (for those that play) in December.

Will you be selling insurance in case we get exceed snow fall

[Harry Hagan]

I can give a recommendation for one to stay away from :

http://www.amazon.com/Powerland-PDST24-Propelled-Electric-Compliant/dp/B003BLPJDI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1413725699&sr=8-3&keywords=powerland+equipment

I bought one of these from Costco a few years back. It was terrible right out of the box. If I was fortunate enough to get it started, the machine could barely throw 4" of dry snow 10' away! I struggled with it for two winters then sold the blasted thing and bought a new Cub Cadet blower.

The Cub's (http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CubCadetFullPageArticleDisplayView?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=14101&pageView=Cubcadet_Residential/2013_XSeries_SnowThrowers_ProductVideo.html) been flawless.

Why didn't you take it back to Costco? Costco wants and needs your feedback so they won't continue selling you inferior products—especially on a major purchase like a snow blower.

[David G Baker]

I also have a Simplicity 2 stage snow blower and a 300 foot dirt driveway. I have had it for around 7 years or more and it has been an awesome machine. It has an electric start the you plug into the wall. It also has a pull start and it starts on the first or second pull if it hasn't been run for a while. It has 5 speeds forward and two reverses. It does a great job of clearing my drive and I have used it in 22 inch deep snow. You have to go slow but it does the job. Once in a while it will pick up a rock and the shear pin will snap and need replaced. Snow blowers work better if they are stored in a warm place or cleaned very well prior to using it again because the snow blowing portion will freeze and will have to be forced to turn before it will work. Hot water works well for this. The first stage of the blower on the Simplicity made from a lot thicker metal than most that I have seen on display in stores. I paid over $1000 for it but it is well worth the price. I also have a John Deere with a back blade that I use when the snow is really wet, the Simplicity does a much neater job of clearing the snow and much less sloppy. When I use the blade I have to rake my lawn in the Spring due to all of the rocks the blade picked up and deposited in the Winter.

[Henry Keller]

If you have a paved driveway the single stage toro is the way to go.I have both and the single stage is faster.

[Jerry Thompson]

I highly recommend living in Florida!

[Jim Matthews]

My Husky is nearly twelve years old.

It's purring.
Never even sheared a pin off.

What's $600/12 years?

The electric start feature is a huge convenience.
I wouldn't consider a new machine, without it.

[Jim Matthews]

We average 90+ inches of heavy wet snow here each winter and I have yet to clog it. I do spray the auger and chute with silicone prior to use. Mine is an 8 Hp. There are good slid machines made in he U.S.

Yikes.
I'll never complain about the trace amounts that close the schools, uppa heya.

[Chad Helme]

I'm surprised when I read these threads that the Toro name never comes up. My single-stage Toro has done everything I've needed, and I live in Milwaukee (so we know snow). In fact, I'd never consider a two-stage because they seem soooo slow compared to my 6.5-HP 2-cycle single-stage. I'm always done with my driveway faster than any of the two-stage users around me.

BUT, Toro does make two-stage snow blowers. And yet in these threads, their name never comes up. Has anyone used one? Are they not any good?

I have an older Toro 2 stage. I bought it used on craigslist for $300. Has an 8 horse Briggs and Stratton and it has been a good machine. Its tired now, and every year I say I'm going to replace it but then the snow comes before I've done anything, and there I go, crankin' up the old Toro. Little bit of dry gas and it starts on the first pull. Something has happened to the electric start, but I think its just a frayed wire. I'm a carpenter, not a mechanic. The linkage to change gears needs constant adjusting too, but its had a hard life. I live in New Hampshire, no winters off here... Still, while my neighbor was shoveling because his new Craftsman was not running, I was out there limping along the old Toro. She won't quit. My other neighbor has a brand new Ariens that I'm fairly jealous of... It throws snow like a coast guard water cannon. When I replace, I'd love one of those If I can afford it.

[Phil Thien]

My other neighbor has a brand new Ariens that I'm fairly jealous of... It throws snow like a coast guard water cannon. When I replace, I'd love one of those If I can afford it.

Yeah, I always admire the 2-stage units that can seemingly throw snow clear across the street. And I feel like I should have one for that reason. But then I'm reminded I really don't NEED to throw the snow that far. It is only neat, not required.

[Myk Rian]

MTD 8hp 24" electric start here. Throws the snow further than an Ariens. I've had it 14 years. Put a new drive wheel and belt on it last year. Easier to do than I thought it would be. It's been a very reliable machine, and will throw 18" of snow all day long.

298665

[Leo Graywacz]

Single stage throwers are for driveways that you have a place to put the snow. My driveway is 140' long with houses on both sides. So you blow the snow to either end which means you are always blowing blown snow. I've had my Ariens 824 since 1989. A couple of years ago we had a snow that dropped 26". I made a pass up the driveway and cleaned out the apron which was 4' tall because of the snowplows. Then I made a pass back to the end of the driveway. Sounded like I needed gas so I fueled up. I made it about 20' and the motor stopped faster than I ever heard and engine stop. DOA.

I don't like any of the newer versions of snow blowers. They are all front heavy. Ariens that is. My Dad has been pushing me to take his, which he hates because of the heavy front end. I like mine.

I bought a snowking engine off of Amazon. I bought a bunch of other parts and replaced them. Put it back into operation the next year and after few adjustments we were back in business. The only thing I didn't replace were the wheel bushings which need to be replaced badly. I also have a problem with one of the drive gears skipping over the other, I do believe it is related to the worn bushings.

So I'll need to get that worked on before the next snow comes down.

http://www.fototime.com/C276DF7D604F428/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/FE9EC9E56E61A9B/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/3DB761956C8A78B/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/595CCB5BAA7E299/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/DAEC18D5667A8BE/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F43C712A2922634/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A2D7E7BFCD33784/orig.jpg

[Phil Thien]

Very nice job Leo!

[Leo Graywacz]

Thanks. It was a cranky pc of machinery to rebuild. It'd been together so long it didn't want to come apart. Nice bearings, huh? LOL Had to cut the race off the shaft too.

http://www.fototime.com/FA4B72E2FE0CF42/orig.jpg

This flange refused to budge no matter what I did to it, heat, oil, force. I finally cut it off and bought a new one. Same with trying to get the augers off the shaft. Lots of heat and force removed those. 1 was much easier than the other. The thrower auger needed to be removed with a 20 ton press and it resisted every inch of the way. Putting it back together was much easier when I cleaned and slightly sanded the parts.

I would have done the drive train but it was being stubborn too. And by that time I wasn't in the mood to fight the machine anymore. It was working nicely. But it will need to be fixed before I'll be happy with it.

[Phil Thien]

Any idea what you have into the rebuild with the new engine and other parts that were needed?

[Leo Graywacz]

The engine was the pricey part. $385.00 And probably another $70 in parts, mainly bushings and bearings.

[Don Morris]

Ya know...after reading good and bad about several of the brands mentioned, I'm reminded of something I concluded after researching coffee makers by studying the feedback comments on several sites. When you read multiple feedbacks, there are no perfect machines. Someone will have one that has problems and someone will have one that is perfect. It makes making a decision based on feedback often difficult. Better than no feedback, but still sometimes difficult to pull out your hard earned coins and feel there will never be a problem. At least you know you might get one of the perfect ones. With my luck however........

[Brett Robson]

When researching my blower purchase, I first decided on the size of machine I wanted, then formulated a list of features I liked, which narrowed the field, then made my decision in part with feedback from others.

Features you may want - (my list is purely subjective here) as for the 2-stage machines, consider:

-Metal or plastic discharge chute. My experience with both says wet snow doesn't stick as much to the plastic.

-Power Steering. Some have a lever under each grip which disengages the drive to that wheel to ease making tight turns.

-Discharge chute control. Crank or joystick design. Both work, but get one you can use with one hand.

-Chute deflector. Is the deflector that controls the angle the snow is ejected a separate control or can it be adjusted via the chute control?

-Lever lock. Can you lock the auger lever when in motion to free your hand to move the chute?

-Heated grips. I never cared much on this one - That's what gloves are for.

-Electric start. Probably most 2 stage machines have this now, but just make sure.

-Engine noise. Can you clear your drive at 5am without waking the entire neighborhood?

-Headlight. A nice feature if you work in the dark hours of winter away from street lights.

In my case, after pondering the choices, I narrowed the field to Cub Cadet and Toro. The Cub got the nod based on the skid shoes, which wont rust or scratch the driveway, like my old blower did.

[Matt Meiser]

Ya know...after reading good and bad about several of the brands mentioned, I'm reminded of something I concluded after researching coffee makers by studying the feedback comments on several sites. When you read multiple feedbacks, there are no perfect machines. Someone will have one that has problems and someone will have one that is perfect. It makes making a decision based on feedback often difficult. Better than no feedback, but still sometimes difficult to pull out your hard earned coins and feel there will never be a problem. At least you know you might get one of the perfect ones. With my luck however........

And that's why I buy stuff like this from a dealer that can take care of it. Another reason for issues with a lot of these small machines suffer from is improper setup by some minimum wage guy in the back room of a big box or worse the buyer.

[jonathan eagle]

I just replaced my snow blower with an ariens 2 stage 24" for $800. My previous SB was 20 years old cheap, $500 5hp 24". But I changed the oil every year, and drained the gas. It was still running, but getting a little tired.
The new one has electric start, and I added handwarmers myself.
I bought mine from home depot online and they ship it to a local store for setup. So you get the better price and the setup, and the local dealer delivered as well.
Jonathan

[Pat Barry]

I bought a Yard King, 8 HP, 27" from Menards many years ago and it has been a good machine although I don't know where to buy one anymore. Anyway, it was solidly built and things like shear pins were easy to find at Menards and Home Depot. Downside is that it is heavy and a bit hard to handle (quick turns). Good thing is the drive has many speed settings including 2 reverse. In fact, I would buy one again if I were in the market and could find out where to get one.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

And that's why I buy stuff like this from a dealer that can take care of it. Another reason for issues with a lot of these small machines suffer from is improper setup by some minimum wage guy in the back room of a big box or worse the buyer.

All hail Matt the wise!

I purchased some equipment from Sears with an extended warranty. The equipment failed often so I would take it back to sears. They would ship it a couple of hours south and a week or three later it would come back as not fixable and they would give me another.

I found a local shop that services what they sell. The few times I have had trouble (like because I improperly winterized my snow blower and it would not start in the fall), they fixed it the same day. They also provided good advice related to the product. For example, a two stage snow blower may be able to handle more snow, but, it will not clean a paved driveway as nicely as a single stage. When I purchased my Toro, they mentioned that generally speaking, a two cycle motor is easier to start in cold weather (I think they no longer are allowed to sell two cycle engines in snow blowers, however). My Toro generally starts very easily so I have never bothered with the electric start.

Ultimately, I was more concerned with the service aspect when I made my purchase (since I trusted them to make solid recommendations).

I will admit I was skeptical when they said that they did not expect me back for service visits on my line trimmer.... and years later, it just keeps working. But, if it did fail, they claim to fix them. I bring my snow blower in sometimes to do things like replace some scraper thing that rides along the pavement while I blow the snow.

[jonathan eagle]

I bought a Yard King, 8 HP, 27" from Menards many years ago and it has been a good machine although I don't know where to buy one anymore. Anyway, it was solidly built and things like shear pins were easy to find at Menards and Home Depot. Downside is that it is heavy and a bit hard to handle (quick turns). Good thing is the drive has many speed settings including 2 reverse. In fact, I would buy one again if I were in the market and could find out where to get one.

Sounds like you know how to care for a machine. It's not where you get it, but knowing how to treat it well that will make it last. Unlike a lawn mower, a snowblower is kind of an emergency machine. Who cares if the grass gets too long. But if you can't move the snow you are stuck. That's why the most important part is caring for it. Changing the oil, draining the gas, and lubrication. Most of my neighbors don't want to bother, so they get plows to come clean them out. A couple just get their snowblowers serviced every year by the local dealer. $150 a year! I suppose I'd do the same if I couldn't figure out how to change the oil.
jonathan

[Leo Graywacz]

The job I had today postponed. So all this snowblower talk got me thinking that I never changed my axle bearings when I did the rebuild. I couldn't figure out how to get them off, had to remove the 2 pc split axle. So today I did some searching around on the net and got the answer. Took it apart and got the new bearings. 2 axle and one drive pulley. All the removed parts are in the sprayroom with fresh coats on them after stripping and prep. Hopefully this will complete the rebuild.

[Ole Anderson]

Depends on what size drive you have and is it dirt or paved. I am 70 miles north of you, so we have similar snow. Last year was a tough one with a record 90 inches of snow, normal is about 40. I used my dad's old 21" Toro single stage until it died after 20 years. Bought an 18" snapper, too narrow and not enough power, gave it to my son and went back to a new 21" Toro single stage a few years ago and never looked back. Starts on the first pull every time. Ok, once in a while if we get 8" or more, I dream of a big 3 stage that will throw it 60 feet and carve into two foot snow banks. But that is maybe every other year. My concrete drive is 16x70 with a parking spot also beside the garage and I can clear 4-6" of snow in about 20 minutes without a lot of exertion. I can clear an inch off the main drive in not much over 5 minutes. The single stage pulls itself into the snow while a two stage depends on it's wheels to push it along. With the two stage, you don't get the rubber paddle effect on cleaning the snow down to bare pavement, it relies on a steel scraper which will bounce up over hardpack more so than the rubber paddle which can eat into hard pack. How many folks get out their two stage to clear a half inch or an inch of snow? If you don't clear it, tires pack it down and it will stay until the thaw. Ok, I am a bit anal about keeping my drive clear... My friend has a 28" two stage up north for clearing his two track back to his cabin. I have used it and it wears you out. Don't assume that a two stage will be any easier than a single stage just because it has tires that turn.

IMHO, a Toro isn't likely to have to go back to the shop for ten years as long as you put Stabil in it at year end or run it dry. You want a really good two stage? Get a tracked Yamaha, but it will set you back about 2 grand and you might have to go to Canada to find one.

[Phil Thien]

Depends on what size drive you have and is it dirt or paved. I am 70 miles north of you, so we have similar snow. Last year was a tough one with a record 90 inches of snow, normal is about 40. I used my dad's old 21" Toro single stage until it died after 20 years. Bought an 18" snapper, too narrow and not enough power, gave it to my son and went back to a new 21" Toro single stage a few years ago and never looked back. Starts on the first pull every time. Ok, once in a while if we get 8" or more, I dream of a big 3 stage that will throw it 60 feet and carve into two foot snow banks. But that is maybe every other year. My concrete drive is 16x70 with a parking spot also beside the garage and I can clear 4-6" of snow in about 20 minutes without a lot of exertion. I can clear an inch off the main drive in not much over 5 minutes. The single stage pulls itself into the snow while a two stage depends on it's wheels to push it along. With the two stage, you don't get the rubber paddle effect on cleaning the snow down to bare pavement, it relies on a steel scraper which will bounce up over hardpack more so than the rubber paddle which can eat into hard pack. How many folks get out their two stage to clear a half inch or an inch of snow? If you don't clear it, tires pack it down and it will stay until the thaw. Ok, I am a bit anal about keeping my drive clear...

IMHO, a Toro isn't likely to have to go back to the shop for ten years as long as you put Stabil in it at year end or run it dry. You want a really good two stage? Get a tracked Yamaha, but it will set you back about 2 grand and you might have to go to Canada to find one.

This has been my experience as well. My first Toro was a CCR2000 (I think) right after I purchased this house approx. 19 years ago. It has needed no work, I just make sure to put some Stabil in the gas, let it sit with whatever little gas is in it over the summer, then start it up in fall and run it dry. When the first snow arrives, I put fresh gas in it, and it pull starts right up.

About six or seven years ago I purchase a CCR2400 (I think that is the model #) for work. The owner of the building I was renting space in was going through some financial difficulty, and I used the Toro to clear about four parking spots in front of my shop, believe it or not. I also cleared the middle section of the parking lot so cars could get in/out. This went on for a few years.

A few years ago a new owner at that building brought with him a plow, and my daughter purchased a house, so the CCR2000 (now about 20-YO) is at her house and the CCR2400 is at home. The only thing I've had to do to the 20-YO machine was replace the scraper on the bottom, and the governor vane got sticky so I had to loosen that.

Amazing little machines.

[roger wiegand]

After 60 years of thinking a shovel was all the snow moving equipment one should require I finally broke down and got a top of the line Ariens 24" blower at the new house, and I have to say I'm hooked. The narrower width allows me to clear the walks without getting into the garden. The relatively big motor lets me throw even heavy wet snow a good 50-60 feet, which I need at our new place. And, though I hate to say it, the hand warmers are delightful. The chute controls are all conveniently placed and it chews though 20-30" snowfalls like crazy. It even makes quick work of the 6-8 ft high embankments the highway department is sometimes kind enough to leave at the end of the driveway, though those do take several passes. So far it starts and runs like a champ, it has an electric starter, but I've never tried using it.

[Aliza Martin Joe]

WORX WG650 18-Inch 13 Amp Electric Snow Thrower

[Mike Cutler]

Good news: We aren't going to get much snow here in the U.S. this winter. Just save your dollars, I'm expecting many days in the 40's and 50's and golf (for those that play) in December.

Phil

You're a prophet.
Nope, we ain't getting no snow this winter. I just bought a new 3X Cub Cadet. No way it's going to snow now. It was a total waste of money, and everyone will be laughing at me for buying a snowblower ;)

Andrew
While researching snowblowers prior to my purchase, I found out that there are really only about a 1/2 dozen manufacturers of Snowblowers.
Honda and Yamaha are at the top of the heap and make their own units. ( John Deere gave up on snowblowers 2 years ago, and now sell Honda's and Ariens.)
MTD is the biggest maker of snowblowers in the US. They make them for many brands, too spec. There are one or two others, but that's about it.

I picked a 3X, 28", Cub Cadet because I got it local, 2 miles from the house, and it can be repaired local, 3 miles from the house. I bought it at a Tractor Supply, with some pretty good % off, only after verifying I would have no issues getting it serviced by the factory authorized service center. I doubt I'll ever need to take it someone outside of a total failure though. I'm pretty good at the small engine stuff.

$600.00 new isn't going to buy much. It seemed to me that about $750.00 seemed to be about the low point for a new 2 stage unit.
My choices came down to Ariens and Cub Cadet.
I also have a 1989 Toro, that still runs and chucks snow, but it's getting tired and requires fiddlin', which is a pain when it's cold outside.

[Rick Hutcheson]

Turn your dishwasher into a snow thrower. Put a shovel in her hands.

[ken masoumi]

My Ariens started with the first pull after a being stored for 10 months,I haven't checked the auger lube level and if it's low,I have no idea where to find Ariens L3 synthetic gear lube,the owner's manual says :"only use Ariens severe duty L3".I have never seen an equivalent"SEVERE DUTY" gear oil even if I wanted to,this L3 oil has to be something special.

[Brian Elfert]

Ya know...after reading good and bad about several of the brands mentioned, I'm reminded of something I concluded after researching coffee makers by studying the feedback comments on several sites. When you read multiple feedbacks, there are no perfect machines. Someone will have one that has problems and someone will have one that is perfect. It makes making a decision based on feedback often difficult. Better than no feedback, but still sometimes difficult to pull out your hard earned coins and feel there will never be a problem. At least you know you might get one of the perfect ones. With my luck however........

I've been looking at dishwashers recently even though I probably won't buy one for a while. After reading consumer reviews online I'm almost thinking a cabinet where the dishwasher opening is might be a better investment. I was reading the consumer reviews of dishwashers at Consumerreports.org and even the highest rated dishwashers are universally panned by consumers. The reviews have five to ten negative reviews for every positive review. It isn't just someone giving a negative review because they didn't like the arrangement of the racks or something. The complaints are mainly they don't wash well, or the units have required many service calls and a number of complaints about leaking units, often multiple times.

I don't know if it is just people with good experiences don't post reviews, or if there really fundamental problems with most new dishwashers due to new energy saving requirements.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian,

Just look at what happens here at SMC.

How many times do you see someone rant about a bad power tool they receive versus how many times you see someone post a good review about a product they receive? Obviously companies wouldn't continue to sell a seriously defective product.

I don't think you can place complete confidence on any one source of consumer information.

Magazine reviews may be slanted due to advertising. If so and to what extent? Who really knows?

Consumer Reports may be less biased due to no advertising but to often, their tests are rather short compared to actual consumer use, IMO.

Consumer reviews are hit and miss too. Right here at the Creek, we have had members who ranted strongly over something, and then admitted to me privately, the final resolution was "Operator Error" on their part and they were grateful I had removed the thread and handled the matter via PM. There are a lot of people who will try to argue technical/engineering data and details but on closer examination, they could not be my mechanic.

Complaints about "bad customer service" deserve close detailed inspection too. Regardless of how much money someone spends for a product, the customer IS NOT always right. They are always the Customer but they aren't always right. The attitude that someone displays when in conversation with a customer service representative may determine just how far a company may go to the letter of a contract and beyond to aid that customer. Customer service agents are humans too. They don't last long in those positions without having empathy and taking a certain amount of heat from a customer. Once that amount of heat a customer exhibits crosses an invisible line and becomes abusive, nobody has to take it regardless of how much money someone spent with your company. Then the customer service agent may become unfriendly.

Just recently we had two appliances give up the ghost. When the microwave went out, it was no big deal. My wife and I were shopping at Costco the next day and I said let's look at what they have for microwaves ovens. We walked out with a new microwave. I did no research. It cost less than $100. Why spend a lot of time worrying about it?

The next week when our main refrigerator in our kitchen died after 23 years (We have a much smaller one in the basement utility room), I didn't allow the shopping hormones of our visiting DIL and wife override my researching a product that met my wife's requirements, was recommended by Consumers Reports and one on which I found literally hundreds of good reviews at several different websites.

When it comes to making major purchases like dishwashers, for example, I don't think one can use just one source of information to get a true representation of a product's reliability, quality, and usefulness.

[Brian Elfert]

When it comes to making major purchases like dishwashers, for example, I don't think one can use just one source of information to get a true representation of a product's reliability, quality, and usefulness.

The thing here is, it wasn't just one dishwasher that had bad reviews. Bosch and Kenmore Elite are some of the recommended models by Consumer Reports. I couldn't find a single Kenmore Elite or Bosch that wasn't universally panned by consumer reviewers on the Consumer Reports website. I certainly don't treat Consumer Reports as a bible when buying appliances, but I put a fair amount of stock in their reviews. I recently bought a new refrigerator, a new microwave, and a new range and certainly looked at Consumer Reports. The three appliances I bought were well rated by Consumer Reports, but are not the recommended models. I also looked at other reviews online when buying the three appliances.

I don't need a dishwasher right now. In my last house I might have gone six months between using the dishwasher. I washed dishes by hand 99% of the time for whatever reason. The primary reason I will get dishwasher at all is because a modern kitchen is expected to have one. Based on how bad the reviews of all the high end dishwashers are I might not ever get one until the day in the future I decide to sell the house.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian,


The replacement refrigerator we bought was 1 of several recommended models. It was panned by a few reviews there at CR but we literally found hundreds of reports by other consumers at other websites that liked it. Out of 200+ reviews, there was something like 168 - 5's , 38 - 4's and 1 - 1. I always read a lot of the reviews, especially the extremes. The one review with a score of 1? The person was angered by the fact that the selling store didn't install the water line as it was against their policy. Their people just delivered the new refrigerator and removed the old one.

I really don't think there is one definitive place to get an absolute review. They all have their issues, IMO.


BTW....I am redesigning our kitchen with a possible bump out to increase it's size. Room for and installation of a dishwasher will be happening. I will get a few rough measurements to leave room for it in the cabinet design but will buy after the construction IF we end up doing a bump out. Our kitchen is only about 9' x 8' and all the appliances are in that area. Our cabinets are 1960's site built cabinets. Though there is one cabinet sized and placed logically for installation of a dishwasher, with so little cabinet space, my wife refuses to give up the storage space and instead introduces me as her dishwasher.:o

[Brian Elfert]

We are getting way off topic, but I see tons of one star reviews on Amazon because of silly things like the item arrived a day later than promised, the item didn't ship for days or weeks, or the item was DOA and so on. Shipping and delivery issues have no bearing on if the item is good or not. Amazon allows buyers to review third party sellers on how the actual sale including delivery and speed of shipping.

[Tom Stenzel]

10 years ago we were given a Toro S-620 that was in bad shape. With strips of metal, spit and bubble gum I've kept it going but now that I'm disabled my wife does the snow. She doesn't want to deal with patched up junk. We just pulled the trigger and bought a Sears 22" 2 stage snow blower on a black Tuesday(!) sale. Once we bought it and got it out of the box found it was made by MTD.

Can't tell you how well it works, hasn't snowed enough yet. Only problem so far is when my wife and daughter got it out of the minivan they had to turn the box on the side. That allowed the engine oil to leak out the breather and into the carb and all over the box. I had to clean it up, add some oil. When it started it filled the garage with smoke. Also the metal skids on the front are a bit small, I might drill them to add polyethylene wear pads to extend their life and make it slide easier.

As far as dishwashers go, keep in mind the manufacturers designed the dishwashers to use a minimum of water. To do this they relied on the phosphates in the detergent to hold dirt in suspension. Once the phosphates were taken out that strategy went to heck. I don't know if any of the appliance makers have sorted out what to do about it, haven't been in the market for one. I know our Kenmore doesn't clean as well as it used to.

-Tom

[Tom Stenzel]

Dragging up an old thread and kinda replying to myself here but an update on the MTD built Sears 2 stage snowblower.

At first there were Grumbling and Mumbling from my wife about it being big and hard to manage. After some of the snows we've had the muttering changed to: Gee, how hard would it be to load it in the minivan and take it to Mom's house?

:)

The one problem that's come up: the choke mechanism is goofy and the markings on the rotary knob are fairly useless. I could clearly hear the engine running at half choke when my wife was trying to clear the snow. That lead to some early frustration on her part. She seems to have it figured out now but after trying out the mechanism it sure could have been better.

-Tom