That screen door: Progress been made?

[steven c newman]

Well, some was made, anyway298379

Hand planes to make a few bevels
298380 A #78 to make a few rebates
A center stile remade to fit the space a little better
298381
And even got a test fit done
298382
Will draw-bore, pin and wedge all the joints when I start the final assembly....Top have with get a rebate to house the screen/storm window.

Might get this thing done, before winter?:D

[george wilson]

Why Winter? The door certainly isn't going to keep the cold out.

[Joseph Klosek]

Why Winter? The door certainly isn't going to keep the cold out.

Because it's there.

[ernest dubois]

It's a good-looking door you've got there. The draw bore and pin I understand and am familiar with but what is that wedge part all about?

[steven c newman]

One saws a couple of lines into the tenons

Then a wedge is driven in from the outside of the door' stile. Go look at a few older doors, you might find a few wedges stuck in the tenons. Wedges & pins and NO glue. Most doors like this are still around, just hidden under 100+ years of paint.

[ernest dubois]

It's a good and proper insight that glue in these cases is out of place. No, no, I have never come across a wedged tenon like that. The pegged tenon is reversible for a reason, a wedge in there would negate that in one swift blow.

[Mel Fulks]

I've seen them wedged on work at least as early as 1800. The reason I saw some of it was to stop it from racking. I know
"reversibility " is a concern to modern restorationists but I don't think it was a concern to the old builders.

[David Weaver]

I've seen them wedged on work at least as early as 1800. The reason I saw some of it was to stop it from racking. I know
"reversibility " is a concern to modern restorationists but I don't think it was a concern to the old builders.

Boring into the end grain would make it reversible enough if new rails or stiles had to be made.

[ernest dubois]

I would say the reversibility was the intention from a long time back and had everything to do with functionality or a recognition that certain parts are subject to wearing out and why replace more when a repair will make do with less. In other words a certain, maybe unfashionable, mind-set from a different era where the concept frugality was used in place of conservation.

[steven c newman]

I've seen way too many of today's "modern" wooden screendoors fall apart after less than a year. Very shallow joints, and they sag easy.

The idea I'm using for the wedge and pins was from an old FWW article on "Period" doormaking. Adapted it to the making of a screen/storm door

Long time ago, I completed two orders for "louvered" passage doors. One was full louvered for a basement doorway ( pre-hung, too) and the other was just the top half done, for a laundry room. It was a prehung affair too. Had more room to work in that old 2-1/2 car garage shop.

Anyway, two kerfs, 1/4 the way in from each end of the tenon. Clamp/drawbore the door tight. Then drive a pair of wedges into the kerfs. Makes it into a "dovetail-like" tenon at the end.

Off tomorrow and friday, maybe I can get the door assembled, with a few shots of the wedges?

[ernest dubois]

Ok ok, I am going through the house restoring doors and windows that need that restoring. All that's needed to begin taking the old windows and doors apart is to knock the pegs through from the inside, because the pegs all seem to have a larger diameter on the out side which seems logical if for no other reason than that is the weather exposed side, but good, I knock the pins through and the window or door is readily taken apart and I can make, most often a new bottom rail, and reassemble it for hopefully the next seventy to one hundred years. A dovetailed configuration would definitely complicate the work at this point.
But I am wondering, do you bore the hole through the mortice before assembling, insert the tenon and mark for the tenon hole… and all that, on your way to completing the job, wedged or not?

[steven c newman]

I'll wait and see which is easier tomorrow I do have a drawbore pin to use. Might need a few more clamps, though.

Tapered pins, or, pegs?

Mine MIGHT just get a few 1/4" dowels for pins. I can always add a small wedge to them as well.

After all, this is just a screen door......

[Jim Koepke]

A dovetailed configuration would definitely complicate the work at this point.

I have removed such wedges with a gimlet, a small chisel and by cutting off the tenon on the inside and driving it through.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

I've worked places that made millwork for museum houses, and the drawings they send usually show the configuration of
mortises ,wedges ,and pegs. Once we got an urgent phone call from an architect saying to put the "roundish" peg in the place where he had drawn the "squarish " peg. The boss came running out of the office to stop the guy before he ruined
the project. Even a boss feels foolish delivering such a message.

[ernest dubois]

We can call it pegs then, I don't know that there is unquestioned agreement though that pin is not the right way. These pegs are fairly representative of the window construction I'm familiar with. A screened door or door to a room would typically just be scaled up and a notch or two and then again some times for use in timber framing.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/ernestdubois/DSCF2638_zpsd62e07d1.jpg
On top, the old and under that the new replacements. Without going into it, this shows the force the pegs are subjected to. They are rounded off it's true, my new ones more so that the original. A lot of that is a result of simply knocking them through the set of off-set holes and the compression of drawing the holes in-line shown in this shot of the deflection from in one side 'n out the other
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/ernestdubois/DSCF2640_zpsb116ffe0.jpg
When these joints are done right they give tremendous strength and rigidity.

The best way I have found to get a wedge out is screw a drywall screw down into it and pry it out with a claw hammer, but for the joint in question I just don't see a need.

[Jim Matthews]

Good start, Steven.

How do you keep a screen door from developing
twist, or racking?

All the modern doors in my 1970's house are visibly
racked, down and away from their hinges.

Your door is clearly better made.

[Reinis Kanders]

I had a home depot door that sagged within a year, they were heavy pressure treated type about 1 1/8 thick. I want to make my own from some light, but strong wood, but have not decided on how to go about it. Only easy to get light wood around me is cedar, but that is very soft.

I recently found some really light, but hard wood on the curb, it seems to be from some sort of old furniture, very tight grain, lightweight like pine, but rather hard. Does anyone know if old pine is like that?
Wood like that would be perfect for a screen door.

[David Weaver]

That old wood could be case hardened. Old pine definitely had tighter growth rings in general than new pine, and you'd need to know the type to determine how much tighter they are than typical.

Pine is OK if the door is painted or sealed and kept after. Mahogany and white oak are decent (mahogany is probably better) choices, as is teak. Genuine mahogany and teak are expensive, and if white oak is too heavy, then design the door so that less wood is used and panels are thinner, etc.

Poplar is bad, and alder is probably bad, too, even though they are both light, cheap and easy to work.

[george wilson]

I have a plastic screen door. PVC,I suppose.

[ernest dubois]

Spruce, very light weight, stable and more durable than pine. Takes a sharp edge and a fine feel for tolerances to make joinery in it but certainly workable wood.

[steven c newman]

I had built another sceen door back in the 89s, out of redwood. Straight grained type. Still on the house since the door was built. That was about 10 moves ago....

[David Weaver]

Redwood is another good choice. harder to find around here now, but a lot of porches were built with redwood for everything but the posts - including mine (probably 40 years old now and was in good shape). It pained me a little bit to have the back porch converted to a room and see that redwood stripped out and replaced with SPF.

[ernest dubois]

Were it for a protected door opening, say, porched, not exposed or something like that I wouldn't hesitate using regular old black or canadian poplar for a screen door, nope not at all.

[steven c newman]

Well, assemble has about been completed...298561

Upper half, where the screen will go. Lock rail. Tops of the raised panels
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And the bottom half. Just ain't a lot of room down here....

As for them pins and wedges298563

Meh...maybe it could have been better in a hardwood. Pins led to a few blowouts, had to fix them. 298564

Had a few rebate to mill up, first. Well there WAS this homemade rebate plane to try out
298565
Nice curlie things appeared. 1/2" wide, by 3/16" deep rebates. Also tried out an iron plane
298566
Hmmm, Noodles, anyone? Since the Wards #78 has a depth stop, I could check the depth left by the other plane.

Primer and some filler, then maybe hang this door?

[steven c newman]

Door has been sanded down with two grits, and the first coat of Kilz Exterior Primer brushed on.

Depending on how it looks this morning, AND the weather, MIGHT try an install into the existing opening. Will need LONGER screws to hit some good wood behind the hinges

New door weighs about twice ( at the least) more than the old metal "thing" that is there now.

Still have to make a frame for the screen.