Marking Gauge: Wheel, Blade, or Something Else

[Andrew Kertesz]

What's everybody's preference for a marking gauge? I know there are wheeled, blade and pin types. What do you use and why?

[mike holden]

Wheel, could not get a pin type not to wander, and used a japanese blade type for awhile, but was difficult to adjust, but the wheeled type just works.
Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Blade for me is the best compromise.

If a pin is stout enough, it can be ground
to have a flat and then sharpened.

Pins that size are nearly impossible for me to see.

http://www.woodjoytools.com/layout/markingcutting-gauge-blade

298178

[Mike Holbrook]

Glenn at WoodJoy makes marking gauges with either wood or brass bodies. Pins and wheels often try to follow grain patterns. The larger stronger blades like Glenn's 1/2" cutting blade are better at staying on track and can make a better line too. The pointed blade on Glenn's slides up & down within it's track allowing the depth of cut to be adjusted for specific woods. Glenn's gauge also features a three position fence designed to handle straight or curved wood. A sta-tite knob keeps the fence from slipping, a common problem with other gauges.

Glenn now offers a nice assortment of well engineered layout tools. His Total Square and Dovetail Layout tools are also very nice.

[ken hatch]

No one marking gauge is best for all things. The wheel type can be very good for marking cross grain when marking the base line of dovetails for a couple of reasons: first a cutting gauge is best for cross grain marking, second with a good wheel type (not so much the cheap ones) you can set one board on the other to set depth. For other cross grain uses a knife type can be better because you can shape and sharpen the blade easily. Cutting gauges are not so good for with the grain marking because they can tend to follow the grain, a pin type is much better.

I keep all three types at hand and ready for use, which one depends on what I'm trying to do.

If I had to go with just one marking gauge I would pick a pin type and use a knife and square for cross grain marking. As always and should be needless to say: YMMV.

[Daniel Rode]

+1 - I have a couple different types and plans to make more.

No one marking gauge is best for all things.

[Jim Koepke]

My preference is for a wheel gauge. In particular the Tite-Mark by Glen Drake is my go to marking gauge.

Here is a short review comparing a couple wheel gauges:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?133966-Tite-Mark-Compared-to-Veritas-Wheel-Gauge

Sometimes the Veritas wheel gage comes in to use if the Tite-Mark is set up to something I do not want to change.

I also have some old Stanley pin type marking gauges. The tips on these have been ground and they work well with the usual grain following problem noted in previous posts. Having a sharp point, flat on one side and rounded on the fence side, along with being careful reduces the chance of any drift occurring.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

Interesting discussion that might benefit from a deeper look. I am not super experienced with these devices but I have tried several.

Wheel Gauges
First I got a LV wheel gauge, which I like, however, I found two things that were issues. The wheel seems to pull the rest off the edge without me noticing. I suspect from reading other threads that the wheel needs to be removed and sharpened more. I'm just not sure I can see an object that small well enough to sharpen it accurately. I have read a post or two on how to do it, but the wheel is small and hard to manipulate and see.

Pin Gauges
Then I bought Kingshotts videos on making Mortises & Tenons & Dovetails. Kingshott demonstrates how to use a pin gauge to great advantage. I bought a mortise gauge from LV made by Les Outils Cullen Tools. I like it but the pins are quite small and do not appear to be replaceable, which makes me hesitant to use it for rougher work. My particular gauge has a fence issue that I need to fix too.

So I just ordered the WoodJoy gauge. It seems to me that a major factor, as is the case in many hand tools, has to do with maintenance, particularly sharpening. I know I can sharpen and maintain the blade on the Woodjoy tool. I'm not so sure about keeping the cutting surfaces on the other two gauges in good working order for all surfaces I may need to mark. The other factor for me is how well the fence system locks and maintains position. In my case I also need to be able to mark distances on curved surfaces which not all fences are good at. A solid square fence lock up isn't as assured as one might think.

As is mentioned above there are certainly advantages to each type of gauge. Another benefit of having multiple gauges is that each can be set for a particular measurement and left there until the project is done instead of constantly having to adjust and readjust a single gauge.

[Jim Ritter]

I made this one one for a swap and couldn't decide on the cutter shape so I made a bunch of different ones.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/2efed016de45489eb6947c4565f2a54b_zps062b8c44.jpg

Jim

[Steve Voigt]

I really like the blade style. A stout sharp blade should not have much tendency to follow the grain.
I recommend the cutters sold by Hamilton (http://www.hamiltontools.com/) marking gauges. $12 for the basic blade, and the last time I bought one, shipping was a dollar. Hard to beat that.

[Prashun Patel]

I say get a good one of each. There are subtle differences. I like the blade kind for their ability to be sharpened. But I dislike the blade kind because if they're not sharp they don't work as frictionlessly as the wheel kind. There are some times that one or the other just feels better in the hand. I'm glad I have one of each.

[Derek Cohen]

You can use a fine/thin blade when marking with the grain. It's all in the technique: take only very light strokes until you have severed the fibres.

Best gauge: Kinshiro (along with my shopmade version)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/Cutting%20Gauge%202/CG4_zps70819cec.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/Cutting%20Gauge%202/CG3_zps645bbfb3.jpg

If you did not pick up a couple of the LV SS gauges when they were available, then you missed out on a great wheel gauge.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/3.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Like most things woodworking you gotta kiss a bunch of frogs to find something that works. I've the Les Outils Cullen pin gauge, the beam doesn't stay square but it is very nicely made and attractive. Shame a tool that nice sets in with the rest of the marking gauge frogs. The best new pin gauge I've found is the Marples screw adjustable gauge from TFWW, at $50 USD it is on the high end of mass produced gauges but it works so I guess it is worth the note. Of the wheel gauges the Tite-Mark is worth the extra cost. Knife gauges I have no real preference, most of the time if I want a knife gauge I will use one of the Japanese cheapies from Stu even though I have a Hamilton gauge on the shelf and a couple others as well.

My marking gauge jones is almost as bad as my sharpening stone jones, it's embarrassing to dig through the shelfs and cubby holes and see how many marking gauges are hidden away. There is a benefit to having a bunch of gauges, as you mentioned, once a gauge is set for a project I seldom need to change it until the project is finished.

[glenn bradley]

I have success with a wheel on cross and along grain marking. I do keep the wheel sharp so it doesn't wander but, slices like a blade. It is very easy to sharpen the wheel(s) on some of the same gear you use for other tools.

[david charlesworth]

I modify very cheap pin gauges from Marples.

The pin is ground and sharpened into a tiny crescent shaped knife. Unfortunately I have no suitable pictures, but there are some great close ups in my new DVD (from L-N) about the Secret Mitre Dovetail.

This should be out in the next month or so and was filmed in my workshop in Hartland, Devon. (1.5 miles from an amazing coast).

These pins are just like Colen Clenton's , but smaller.

There are other modifications so that the pin can be seen during use.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Jim Matthews]

I modify very cheap pin gauges from Marples.

The pin is ground and sharpened into a tiny crescent shaped knife. Unfortunately I have no suitable pictures, but there are some great close ups in my new DVD (from L-N) about the Secret Mitre Dovetail. Best wishes, David Charlesworth

I think this is mentioned in one of your reference texts; which are dog eared, choked with sawdust and smudged from use.

I've modified one pin as you have shown.
Mine turned out considerably shorter than intended.

It's a treat to have you stop by, again.

[ian maybury]

There's times i think from my limited experience that it's useful to have some different types of gauge. I like the Veritas cutting disc type gauge, but there's times a heavier cut is useful for better visibility/better registration. I like the Japanese pattern Derek posted pictures of - one big advantage is that the knife is fully visible and not obscured by a bulky beam.

There's a variety of interesting gauges here on the Tools from Japan site:

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=356_357

T (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=356_357&products_id=2039)ake a look as well at the precision (vernier) based gauges on the adjacent pages - go back to 'measuring and marking', and select it from there. (can't get the link to copy correctly)

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Ian

I used one of Stu's cheap gauges as a basis for a Kinshiro-alike: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/KinshiroOnTheCheap.html

Sharpening a pointy pin gauge into a cutting gauge is, as David remarked, about creating a pin like this ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/Cutting%20guiage/gauges4.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Branam]

That is an absolutely gorgeous hunk of metal!

[Steve Branam]

I'll just reiterate what several people have said here, it's nice to have several. My favorite it the Tite-Mark. It's expensive, but it works extremely well in any grain orientation; it's a lifetime investment.

I have a shop-made cutting gauge that works very well, although I made the wedge angle too high so it pushes loose too easily. I have some used pin gauges that I want to modify this way.

My least favorite is the pin gauge because of it's propensity for grain-tracking. However, with a little practice it's manageable. As Derek said, repeated light strokes, trailing it at an angle where the pins just bite. I bought four of them for teaching (yeah, I should have spent ten bucks more for each one and gotten cutting style...). When I teach with them, I found I have to give a mini-lesson just on how to use them. Simple as they are, they're such an unfamiliar tool that people just don't know how to handle them; the pins just add a level of frustration!

[david charlesworth]

Thanks Jim.

The modified pin, as shown by Derek, and used by Colen Clenton, is my favorite, because it cuts deeper, and is easier to start and stop than a wheel gauge. I find it very helpful to cut deep if chisels are to be be used, there is a distinct shelf to place the chisel on. I have quite strong dislike of the shallow scratch, all too easy to twist a chisel out of line.

David

[Tony Zaffuto]

Thanks Jim.

The modified pin, as shown by Derek, and used by Colen Clenton, is my favorite, because it cuts deeper, and is easier to start and stop than a wheel gauge. I find it very helpful to cut deep if chisels are to be be used, there is a distinct shelf to place the chisel on. I have quite strong dislike of the shallow scratch, all too easy to twist a chisel out of line.

David

Earlier today, I took a vintage Stanley 65 (IIRC) gauge (with triangular head) and modified the pin ala Derek & Colen Clenton. Made a remarkable difference! Time will tell if my subconscious has me reaching for this gauge now, or my Hamilton (knife blade type) or Titemark. Quite easy to do and the wooden gauges David mentioned are quite cheap to buy, with the modification taking only a bit of time.

All in all, it is nice being a "hobbyist woodworker & tool accumulator", permits self-indulgence to have a variety of this and other tools to choose from! If I was trying to make a living at this craft, I would starve!

[ken hatch]

... If I was trying to make a living at this craft, I would starve!

Amen brother.

[Richard Kee]

I made this one one for a swap and couldn't decide on the cutter shape so I made a bunch of different ones.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/2efed016de45489eb6947c4565f2a54b_zps062b8c44.jpg

Jim


Beautiful work Jim.

Do you make these for sale?

Richard

[Tony Parent]

I've been thinking this same question lately, which type of marking gauge... So I set about making some to test the different styles.

298285

I do have a Veritas wheel gauge, but it never seems to leave enough of a mark for my ageing eyes. Particularly when I'm dimensioning rough cut lumber. The above, in order:

A cutting gage,
Panel gauge that uses a pencil to mark the line
A dual beam cutting mortise gauge
A pin type mortise gauge
Two wheel type gauges, with differing fence and holding configurations

For me, the cutting gages seem to be the best all around gauge. The wheel gauges second for normal marking. (The wheels on these are sharpened replacement wheel cutters for a pipe cutter, and as such are bigger then the ones you see on the Veritas or other similar wheel gauges. Easier to sharpen, and cut a bit deeper.)

More can be seen in this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?222401-Yet-another-marking-guage

[Jim Koepke]

I do have a Veritas wheel gauge, but it never seems to leave enough of a mark for my ageing eyes.

This is when my pencil is sharpened and run through the wheel cut to make the line clear.

My other option is using the Stanley Odd Jobs with a carpenters pencil to leave a line fat enough to actually split with a saw.

The Odd Jobs gets used almost as much as my Tite-Mark®.

jtk

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Richard of course right after I send you some money you ask if I am selling them. No, I'm not selling them. They were the first things I made on my Benchmaster milling machine. I made parts enough for four I think. I still haven't assembled mine yet. I found it too labor intensive to try and sell them. The inspiration came from Dominic over on WoodNet, he made a couple and was kind enough to share his drawings. Then again I now have a bigger mill and could really gang up the parts for some small scale mass production. Hmmmm.
Jim

[Adam Cruea]

I use wheel gauges, mostly because the last thing I need is something pointy coming towards my thumb that can sink in more than 1/8". :p

I have the Veritas M&T gauge along with just the normal marking gauge. Both are wonderful pieces of equipment. I'm a tad jealous, though, that Derek ordered a few of the SS ones; I wanted to get one, but couldn't justify ordering it for no good reason at the time.

[Mike Holbrook]

Derek is teasing us with the Kinshiro-type gauges he made and I believe an actual original. Stuart mentioned the Kishiro to me once when I asked him about guages. It was my understanding that those very popular gauges are no longer available. I believe Stuart suggested the 2 blade Kegaki as the closest tool currently available.

I noticed the Vernier Kegaki marking gauges on the same page as the 2 blade model. I'm not sure whether a single or double gauge makes more sense for me and never placed an order. Now that I have a single blade gauge and another on order I am questioning the need for a double gauge. With all the discussion of issues getting a straight deep cut I can't imagine a devise that has to make two cuts is not going to increase issues. I understand about making light cuts, but with two blades? I'm sure it can be done but is it easier or harder than just making two cuts with two devices? It occurs to me that I may want one line to remain constant but vary the second line to an actual mortise or tenon for instance. The double pin gauge I have does not like to lock up and can be hard to set. I probably need to do a little work on that gauge, still double blades/pins must add some level of complication. I believe the Kinshiro and Kegaki Japanese gauges attempt to solve the issue by using a double locking system.

The 6" vernier tool seemed an interesting option as none of the gauges I have incorporates any type of scale. I guess a gauge designed for cutting/marking vernier would be very accurate. Certainly one can set these tools: with another devise, to the width of a chisel, against an actual mortise/tenon/dovetail...Still it might be nice to have at least one of these devices with an accurate scale? Stu's information says the tool can be purchased with an inch scale by special request. I believe I could manage with a metric scale.

[Sam Cui]

Depends on the job.

For rough rip sawing/resawing, a pencil and combination square are used. An actual pencil gauge might be a better alternative.
For dimensioning stock to with a plane, a wheel gauge cannot be use. The bevel is on the wrong side. You need the cutter to to compress the waste wood so the bevel has to be on the side farther from the fence, but most wheel gauge cutters have it closer to the fence. Therefore I use a normal pin gauge or cutting gauge with the blade correctly oriented. However for marking dadoes and such a wheel gauge's cutter is correctly oriented. Now it is the better choice as it is smoother than the pin and cutting gauges. Another thing about wheel gauges I like is that I can just roll them off of the end of a board. While with a pin or cutting gauge, the last 1/4" or so of the line may drift as I lose a lot of the registration (unless I come in from the other direction).

I actually sharpen my pin gauges like a cutting gauge i.e. with one side vertical and the other side beveled. Again it's to keep the compression in the waste.

Just my 0.02$
Sam

[Sean Hughto]

For dimensioning stock to with a plane, a wheel gauge cannot be use. The bevel is on the wrong side.

You're more anal retentive than me in hand thicknessing stock, but if you insist, Glen Drake has you covered:

http://play-glen-drake.com/v-web/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=44&osCsid=4e89457c78a60dfea8426cf4a46ef75e

[Tom Vanzant]

"Just roll the wheel marking gage off the end of the board".....yeah, right across the fist knuckle of my holding hand. Sharp, so it didn't hurt that much, and the cutting wheel is a small diameter so it wasn't deep. Note to self: don't do that again.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Depends on the job.

For rough rip sawing/resawing, a pencil and combination square are used. An actual pencil gauge might be a better alternative.
For dimensioning stock to with a plane, a wheel gauge cannot be use. The bevel is on the wrong side. You need the cutter to to compress the waste wood so the bevel has to be on the side farther from the fence, but most wheel gauge cutters have it closer to the fence. Therefore I use a normal pin gauge or cutting gauge with the blade correctly oriented. However for marking dadoes and such a wheel gauge's cutter is correctly oriented. Now it is the better choice as it is smoother than the pin and cutting gauges. Another thing about wheel gauges I like is that I can just roll them off of the end of a board. While with a pin or cutting gauge, the last 1/4" or so of the line may drift as I lose a lot of the registration (unless I come in from the other direction).

I actually sharpen my pin gauges like a cutting gauge i.e. with one side vertical and the other side beveled. Again it's to keep the compression in the waste.

Just my 0.02$
Sam


This is one reason I like my Veritas Dual Marking Gauge. It has two wheel cutters with each bevel oriented the opposite direction. Intended for marking mortises, but when used as a single marking gauge it solves this problem.

[Rob Luter]

I have a wheel style that works OK in soft wood, but I'm usually working in White Oak. My go-to is a simple Stanley pin style with the pin ground to a spear point and aligned just right. I drew inspiration from a marking knife I have. The end result is much like a pointy razor blade. It cuts deep and true.