I Need Tips for my Talk to a School Shop Class

[Andrew Joiner]

I got invited to share my experiences as a professional woodworker with my grandson's shop class. I took a tour of the shop and was impressed by all the beautiful classic machinery. The students and the teacher need inspiration. Of course the fact is there isn't a lot of good woodworking jobs. I believe woodshop can be much more than just career training.

The first thing I want to say is:
Woodshop is like an Art class on steroids. You can learn to make beautiful objects that are useful . You can create things that could be treasured for many lifetimes. Ask yourself this question "where are the designers and makers of the transistor, boom box or the cassette tape player now?'' Many of the things we marvel at today get outdated fast. Fine furniture can be timeless.

I need more ideas. What can you add? Can you finish this sentence in a creative way?
Shop class experience may not get you a good job but :

[Jamie Buxton]

Very few classes in high school lead directly to jobs, so don't get too distracted by that issue.

[Andrew Joiner]

Good point Jamie.
How about-
Shop class experience can:

[Bill White]

If you are dealing with the basics, I would suggest a discussion on measuring as a first lesson. It astounds me that there are many who don't know how to read a ruler.
My first project would be building a square box. Sounds simple to those who have done such but, for beginner students, it can be a challenge.
Don't overwhelm the class with excess details. KISS.
then there is the safety issue.
Make them aware that wood is an organic medium. It moves, twists, etc. They are not dealing with an object that is forever stable.
Keep us posted as the class progresses.
Bill

[glenn bradley]

Shop class experience can:
- teach you independence; you learn to handle something on your own, start to finish.
- allow you a creative outlet; if you can think it, you can probably build it if you acquire the skills.
- help you build hands-on skills that can transfer to other areas of your life.
- get you dates; chicks dig scars. . . wait, scratch that one :D

[Erik Loza]

I would ask the kids what they like to do for fun and then connect that to woodworking....

"Oh, you skateboard? What if I told you that you could build the baddest skateboard in town?"
"You like video games? What if you could build a controller/console/whatever that is totally custom for your game setup?"

Stuff like that. I always admired the guys in shop class who were making stuff like speaker boxes for their cars and so on.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Matt Day]

It helps build skills such as problem solving, design (3D cad or by hand), scheduling (this has to happen before that).

Linking it to other classes that might involve drafting or cad might be a good idea, if they're offered.

For you as a pro, you could talk about the people skills you need to win jobs. That's as important as the work itself right? Marketing, running a small business, etc.

[Todd Burch]

I have saved thousands of $$$ over the years being able to do my own renovations and improvements. It all started in shop class in 10th grade.

(BTW, I just updated my signature… I thought of it while typing this reply.)

[Peter Quinn]

Even if making objects from wood does not become a vocation for the students, the process of designing and building objects will help develop a skill set that is transferable to a great many professions. Some where they might actually be able to earn a living! Engineering of all sorts, product design, art, manufacturing, and teaching for example. They learn to start with nothing and develop a useful or beautiful object through a process, along the way they learn time management, possibly team work on larger projects. Its not IIR really a vocational training program in most schools. You could bring in a few objects for show and tell, or assemble a slide show on a tablet of beautiful objects made of wood.

[Bradley Gray]

I suggest doing a demo since you will be in the wood shop. I usually make dovetails by hand and talk about all the steps. Your show of skill will give you cred with the students and hold their attention while you slip in your words of wisdom.

[Grant Wilkinson]

Shop class experience can and will improve your math skills.

My friend's pro shop hires students out of community college. It is amazing and disappointing how many of them cannot do the basic math used routinely in woodworking. They are not stupid young people, though, and they learn quickly.

[Mel Fulks]

Let each use a sharp plane or knife for a moment. And in the best tradition of salesmanship ...make it even grained white
pine. Pleasure is sold easier than morals and utility.

[David Masters]

Where to begin? As someone who makes his living in the business world, I see a number of linkages to the skills learned in woodworking. The most obvious is creativity. When I started this hobby, I found I needed to recall basic skills in math, science, and engineering. Other skills were problem solving, focus and attention to detail, organization and project management. These are professional skills that are prized in the business world and which many new entrants appear to lack.

[Dan Schocke]

I have yet to sell this one to my boss, but Facebook provides a woodshop for employees in order to get their creativity flowing:

http://www.techhive.com/article/2047898/facebook-tells-employees-build-something-with-a-table-saw.html

Microsoft does something similar, though it's not focused on woodworking -- it's a general shop with woodworking, metal working, etc.

I guess the bottom line is that woodshop isn't limited to just vocational pursuits... being able to solve problem in 3 dimensions applies to just about every engineering field.

--Dan

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Where to begin? Safety first. Everthing else you do, depends on the first. Personally, I never got tired of Norm and his safety first message.

Just my $0.02.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Shop class experience may not get you a good job but: planning and seeing through a project from start to finish is preparation for everything you do for the rest of your life.

Make connections to other studies where possible: art, history, engineering, physics, chemistry, and particularly math. You don't need to understand all these things to point out the connections and that students may want to keep looking to better understand.

It's amazing how frequently someone posts a "no math" approach to doing some shop task that looks exactly like what's taught in geometry class. (At least it was when I studied, and had been since Euclid.) Scaling things up or down proportionally, drawing (or cutting) squares, hexagons or octagons the size you want, figuring the radius of an arc given height and width, constructing curves of varying radius that transition smoothly, are all standard parts of geometry that are easier for students to understand if they see why anyone would care. Algebra is about learning how a ruler and numerical calculation can do exactly the same thing as a compass and straightedge, which can lead to simple formulas that are easy to use. Trigonometry adds the protractor to the tool set. Calculus lets you find a "best" solution to many types of problem, once you specify what would be best.

Just the assertion that math class can show you these things may be enough, if it leads the students to pay attention to their math teachers, and ask them to explain further.

[Andy Pratt]

tell them how it can be fun for them, especially when that yields something useful, the skateboard idea someone mentioned is a great idea
other ideas would be making a wood-framed electric car for a race, building a transportable shed that can be sold to fund next year's more exciting project etc.

if the project is reasonable (think school budget and school mindset on safety) and you sell the kids on it, they will sell their teacher on it for next semester, then they will be into woodworking

Teaching them about tools one by one worked in the 50's when everyone was geared toward this, now kids need more of an immediate perception of future reward to keep their interest.

I would recommend that you tell them the cool things they can do with woodworking in the time you have, then let them ask you back before you show them all the hard work that is necessary to get there. If they ask you back, they will be ready for the hard work by that point, then they will actually listen to what you have to say.

[Brad Seubert]

My shop class experience didn't get me a job but it gave me a life long hobby. I always loved shop class and took every one that I could fit into my schedule, even though I knew I was going to go to a four year college and get an engineering degree.

I was very lucky in that my high school had an excellent shop program. We actually had a building construction class where we built a house on piers outside of the high school. At the end of the year this house was then auctioned off by silent auction, and picked up and moved to the winning bidders site. Everytime I went by the high school as a kid and saw this house it fascinated me and I knew it was something I wanted to when I was in high school.

So even though I knew I'm not in a job in the trades I have a ton of knowledge I can apply to my life. When I have someone builds me a house I will know what it is suppose to look like and can tell if they are doing things correctly. I have the knowledge to complete my own home improvement projects and save myself some money and not have it turn into some DIY nightmare.

It saddens me to see shop classes thought of as just for people who are going to get into the trades. Everyone should be required to learn some of this stuff.

[Brian W Smith]

It's practically impossible these days to...."sell a notion or idea".As technology and our reliance on it grows,the mind's ability to visualize shrinks.A simple conversation or brainstorming is becoming a thing of the past.So,going along with Mel in post #12........all safety applied,the more hand's on the better.Try getting them to plane off a long,continuous shaving with a benchplane.See if they can tell the difference between having it dead straight with the part(board)...and having the plane,skewed a bit.Then start describing exactly how the mechanics of the plane work.There is nothing technology related,that can compare with this....so,don't bother trying to convince them.

I find it very difficult with a lot of younger folks to get them "engaged".......and that isn't a slight on today's youth,they are the future.Best of luck.

[Lee Schierer]

I took shop classes in high school and learned the basics of joinery and finishing. I took those basic skills and started making things that we wanted but couldn't afford. The more things I made, the more I learned. I learn something on every project I make. Remember it isn't the quality of the tools, it is the skill of the craftsman using them that makes a project successful.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bullet points [many already stated in one way or another]
> Planning skills
> Organizational skills
> Analytical / problem solving skills
> Applied mathematics

If you can learn woodworking then, by definition, you have advanced your competence in all of these areas. All of these are important skills in the job market, regardless of the industry.

And - as a benefit - you have something tangible to see when you are done.

And - Hey - get real - Moms and GrandMoms love stuff you make as presents. Be a hero. They will keep it for their lifetimes, and then, eventually, ti will circle back to you. Trust me - I just cleaned out my parents last apartment [they moved into hospital-style health care center 4 weeks ago.]

[John M Wilson]

I got invited to share my experiences as a professional woodworker with my grandson's shop class... The students and the teacher need inspiration.

As a life-long manufacturing engineer that recently transitioned into the world of high school teaching, I have some recent experience with dealing with the high-school teenager.

As I read all of the excellent advice in the posts above, the first thing that comes to mind is: What does the customer (the students) need? If you don't meet their needs (expressed or unexpressed) they will perceive you as unnecessary. They will probably be polite, but won't learn a thing, since they can tune out in (literally) nanoseconds.

Is this a high-school or a middle-school shop class? Are they experienced (2nd or 3rd year) or are they only a few weeks into their shop journey? Knowing just these small facts will go a long way toward understanding their needs, which is the gateway to an interesting experience for them.

If they are complete newbies, then showing some interesting final products, with a brief explanation of the skills they will need to make the products may impress them. More experienced students may appreciate some pointers for moving beyond the dead-simple.

Middle school students will have almost no interest in what kind of a job this may lead to... that is so far off in their future (or so they think) that you might as well be discussing the different options for assisted living facilities.

High school students are (for the most part) interested in college. (It is truly a tragedy of our times that trades are so under-stressed in our high schools, but that is a topic for a different thread). If you can show them the practical aspects (many of which are covered in the comments above) that working with your hands gives you, and how that will help them get into and succeed in college, you will have their attention. Particularly for the students who do not have the 4.0 GPA and 36 on the ACT, stress that emphasizing their abilities to design, plan, and especially to THINK will look terrific on their college application, and may even give them something to write about in their application essays.

Bottom line: Figure out what they need & what they are interested in, and then give it to them. I'm sure you will do great!

[Charlie Velasquez]

The students and the teacher need inspiration.

Of course the fact is there isn't a lot of good woodworking jobs. ............Shop class experience may not get you a good job but :If they are looking for inspiration, the last couple of sentences won't cut it. Instead, be truthful but not negative. Inspire them to be one of those craftsmen that ARE sought out.

"Woodworking is a vocation that demands pride in detail. As your skills improve your eye for detail improves.
Pride and detail. That is what people want when they seek out a craftsman to do that special project; whether it be building a house or putting in a new door, building a fine china cabinet or making a bandsaw jewelry box.

Woodworking helps to develop those skills better than a lot of other activities. You can see the effects of your work habits both immediately and later in a project. 'That cut is kinda square', then when attempting to assemble it you wonder why it doesn't fit right. Woodworking is a great evaluator of how much pride you have in your work."

Think of the qualities that made YOU successful; relate how they show up in YOUR woodworking. Bring samples/pics of your work. Point out what you do to make it special.

Above all be passionate about woodworking. Kids, from elementary school on up can tell if you like what you're doing or not. It is darn near impossible for a student to not be interested in a topic if the teacher exudes passion. The converse is also true... Kids can tell. Smile a lot, use inflection. And as for technique, practice in front of a mirror, including emotion (maybe now a days in front of your iPad or phone would be better).

[Matt Day]

Might be nice for the OP to chime in and respond to the advice given so far.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Shop class experience may not get you a good job but :
It gave me a good reference as to what's good and what's not so good.

Go to a furniture store sometime where all the pressed wood - held together by staples - "picture of wood on vinyl contact paper" sides - has some kind of "mystery wood" that grows on the Asian continent for the "real wood" parts - and soft close Blume drawer slides on the dove tailed drawers.
hang around and listen to the number of people that open the drawer & pronounce it "quality furniture" because the drawers are dove tailed.


I'm serious as a heart attack about this. I hear this all the time @ Lowes and HD from people in their kitchen department - both shoppers and the people that work there!

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for all the replies.
So many angles of approaching this, kinda like designing a good chair. If it looks good but it's not comfortable few people want it.
I have been invited to tell my story and help teach. I'll get my toes wet on the story part first to see if it's a good fit before I volunteer much teaching time.
My favorite teacher of all time was not a shop teacher but Social Studies. He used humor to get and keep our attention. Humor will be a tool I'll use too.

I'm optimistic about the opportunities here. I've thought for years I'm so out of touch with kids. Then one day I showed some 40 year old images of my work that popped up on a website to my 15 year old grandson and 18 year old nephew. They know I was a cabinetmaker and love my current work, but had only vague career plans. When I explained the how and why of the 40 year old work process they got very excited. Both saying I want to do that for a living!

[Keith Weber]

Shop class experience may not get you a good job but :

...watching Timmy cut his thumb off on the bandsaw is going to give you a story that will last a lifetime!"

[rudy de haas]

hi:

Some suggesions:

1 - remember that the teacher who invited you is probably happy to have you fill the time, but worried that you'll say or do something that reflects poorly on him (or her).

2 - remember that the class is not homogenous. A few are there to learn but most are there for other reasons ranging from parental presure to an inability to make it in classes where reading is required.

3 - therefore.. I'd suggest you plan your talk in segments: one for each major sub-group in the class. As a corolary, be aware that the people you're really not talking to at any point will grow increasingly restive. To beat that, bring along some exhibits that can be passed hand to hand among the disengaged.

4 - tailor your talk to work towards a hands-on demo, encouraging those who want to learn to work with you at it - that way the regular teacher can take over the bored after your alloted tim expires, but those students who are genuinely interested can hang around and ask questions.

5 - I would not talk about beauty in wood, professonalism, or the application of math to design and execution - those things will cause eye rolling. Just talk about stuff you've done, and customer reaction to it. Most people, including many among the most disaffected, love to hear about other people - so tell them what Mrs jones said that made either no sense or more of it than you understood etc. Stories that include the phrase "as it turned out, however" usually resonant. Then show them how to actually do stuff - the what doesn't really matter: whether your plane a plank or build a three story birdhouse, the message is the same: anything worth doing, is worth doing right and your satisfaction comes from doing it right.

[johnny means]

...watching Timmy cut his thumb off on the bandsaw is going to give you a story that will last a lifetime!"

This happened in my 10th grade shop class. Except, the kids name was Chad. I'll never forget watching the humongous instructor slowly lumber on over and ask, "Watcha got there, buddy?" Poor Chad was in such a state of shock, he couldn't even answer.

[Andrew Joiner]

I just got back from my shop class presentation. It went really well. Several kids asked good questions indicating they listened and were interested.

First off I had a minor confrontation with a typical smart a-- kid named Mike. I know them because I was one! When he learned I was there to tell my story about being a cabinetmaker he said "What, we don't get to work in the shop today". I said maybe not. He said "that sucks". I said you don't get to talk to me like that. He glared at me as I started my talk. After 20 minutes I ended the talk with this question. What's your favorite or least favorite part of woodworking here? Mike raised his hand and I called on him. He said "the table saw is scary".

We went over and looked at the classic Powermatic Model 72. The teacher said Mike had a kickback recently so no one would go near the saw. The teacher has little experience in woodworking. I showed her the fence needed adjustment to toe it out. Also with no outfeed table any stock over 3' long tipped. After a 5 minute technique explanation and a few test cuts everyone was smiling, including Mike. When class was over I shook Mike's hand and said thanks for bringing up the saw issues. He looked me in the eye and said "thanks for coming". What a rewarding day!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Andrew - great story.


You turned around one smart-arse apprentice hoodlum...........that is a credit to you.

Well played, Sir. Well played, indeed.

[Ellery Becnel]

In my previous job, I was a service rep for a small OEM. It never failed, every group had a Mike. I always addressed that person with respect, and in turn questioned him.
Now the pressure was off of me, and it opened a respectful conversation presentation. At the end of each presentation that person would always approach me and ask
More questions about what I was explaining. Usually the ones that speak up like that are the ones that care. Everyone else just wants me to leave. I also shared what I had
learned at other sites, and encouraged them to share with me their issues so that I could better help them and others. It was amazing how much they opened up. They felt that they had value in what was going on. My supervisor would always get a call thanking him and me for knowing our product, and servicing their needs.
It sounds like you did really well, and enjoyed yourself at the same time. Thanks for posting.

Ellery Becnel