parts for ancient powermatic jointer?

[sean schriver]

Hey all,
Quick question, I have a powermatic 8" M60, an OLDIE I have been using for a couple years. I think 1960-70. Anyway I am in the process of tearing it down and cleaning it. Noticed I will need a new outside bearing cap and bolt, The threads on both are just about stripped and barely stay tightened. Also will need new infeed and outfeed gib shims bars. Any ideas on where I can order these parts from? I found the part numbers from what I think is the correct year manual on vintage machinery. I have a feeling contacting powermatic is going to be wasted effort. I was trying to make my tables co-planer with shims but as soon as I unlocked/locked the infeed table to set to cutting depth, there went all my work. it just never would come back to my settings. I am hoping the new parts and a good polishing of the keyways and white lithium grease would help but I'll save all that for another post soon. Mainly need to get the new parts first...any suggestions?:confused:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Sean,

Here's a link to ereplacementparts.com who has a M60C and other models through M60HH parts http://www.ereplacementparts.com/search_result.php?q=Powermatic%20M60&manufacturer=Powermatic&models_heading=Jointer+Parts .

But if it were me, I would go to a local bearing shop and hardware store. Bearings and bolts are typically available locally. If you go this route, take the old bearing and bolt with you.

Good luck with your search!

[sean schriver]

Thanks Ken,
Actually, I don't need the bearings, just the outside bearing cap (non pulley side) that the bearing fits into and then is bolted from underneath through the actual jointer and the Gib Slides (pretty worn) that go in the keyways. think they would have these? it's quite old...I am not sure which model I have, the placard only says model 60 and the serial number. I tried to use Vintage machinery's table to find out what year it was but it was pretty confusing to me. The bolt I think I can find at a hardware store but I am not sure is a standard bolt. I would prefer to get one with the cap so I know it matches but if worse comes to worse....
anyway, I'll take a look at their site and wore case, I'll just have to find out what year, which manual, which part number and see what they can do if I send a few pics as well. Otherwise this thing is gonna turn into an industrial sized paperweight...

[Peter Quinn]

Start by contacting powermatic. It's no guarantee, but they do better than some with old parts stock, and it's free to ask.

[Phil Barrett]

Worst case, you might find a machine shop that could fabricate one for you. Probably not cheap but enough to put another 60 years on the machine.

[Charles Taylor]

I found the part numbers from what I think is the correct year manual on vintage machinery. I have a feeling contacting powermatic is going to be wasted effort.

Get on vintagemachinery's sister site, owwm.org, and ask.

[Erik Manchester]

If you have no luck finding the parts, I would suggest that you find a retired machinist in your area that has a home shop, as he could likely fix you up quickly. A commercial shop will likely cost a fair bit more than you want to spend.

[David Werkheiser]

I replaced the gib bars on the same machine as yours, and the out feed bed still sagged and it still had to shimmed. I have seen a lot of these dovetail machines over the years with shims in them.
If the original shims are not bent, file or use a stone on them to remove the ridge around the dimple that the set screws made in them. Flip the gibs over and use the unused side against the set screws.

[sean schriver]

Start by contacting powermatic. It's no guarantee, but they do better than some with old parts stock, and it's free to ask.
I tried but they were just as cnfused as I was. they tried sending copies of 2 manuals but both were wrong. they recommended I contact WJ Redmond (Redmond machinery). I will be doing that tomorrow...

[sean schriver]

Thanks Phil and everyone else that replied...Yep, looking at those options as well. but at what cost (for machining)? For 1200 I can get a shop fox parallelogram 3 hp...so the parts milling need to justify the cost (bearing cap/bolt and gib shems but someone suggested flipping and reusing which I might do). I am pretty anal about my settings so I am not really feeling shimming/reshimming the outfeed table all the time. it's very time consuming especially if I need to balance left to right and toe to heel. I like to think the old quality machinery is worth it but given the amount of work (hours) and extreme touchiness when trying to shim, I am finding it harder to justify trying to salvage this thing. Even if I can find the right parts, there is no guarantee I can get this thing back to +/- .001/.002 coplanar L/R & T/H and be able to hold it past unlocking the table, setting depth, and making my first pass. (That is the biggest problem right now) I got it really close but as soon as I set to cutting depth, boom, settings way off again which is why I'm tearing it down and really trying to eliminate potential issues keeping it from holding the settings. this is my first big jointer and first time I've tried to level like this to the precision I am now experienced enough to require/want. The shops I have worked at had massive Porters and I seldom saw them being re-leveled. So if any one can talk me into keeping it if I can find the parts, I'm all ears. I'm really quite torn at this point, quality (maybe if I can get it to hold my settings) machinery, or precision/easy to adjust made in Taiwan:(
Ohh by the way. The serial number is 0-4567 model:60, so old even powermatic was guessing on which manual to use to look for part numbers, lol...

[sean schriver]

I'll be trying that worse case scenario..

[sean schriver]

Get on vintagemachinery's sister site, owwm.org, and ask.
Good Idea...I will try tomorrow night..

[sean schriver]

If you have no luck finding the parts, I would suggest that you find a retired machinist in your area that has a home shop, as he could likely fix you up quickly. A commercial shop will likely cost a fair bit more than you want to spend.
I'll be trying that along with commercial if I have to resort to that.. Thanks!

[David Kumm]

Really depends on the condition of the table and ways. New cast iron isn't spec'd to the .002 you are talking about, more like .005-.010. If the PM has that fine grain Meehanite rated cast iron and flat it is worth some effort. There were lots made so the owwm guys may have some parts. Dave

[sean schriver]

I replaced the gib bars on the same machine as yours, and the out feed bed still sagged and it still had to shimmed. I have seen a lot of these dovetail machines over the years with shims in them.
If the original shims are not bent, file or use a stone on them to remove the ridge around the dimple that the set screws made in them. Flip the gibs over and use the unused side against the set screws.

So the counter sunk holes where the gibs seat are not original? They are pretty squished and deformed (look like the gibs were over tightened multiple times and they deformed the original countersinks thus possibly causing my problems?) but you think I can just file them, flip them and re-use? they are otherwise in good condition over-all except for the holes. do I need to counter sink them? my original thought was the countersinks were created when they machined the gib holes after locking and milling the table tops to be coplanar, thus ensuring the tables always lined up coplanar L/R T/H. I don't know how I would accomplish that if that is true without a machine shop re-grinding the tables and then drilling through the gib holes to produce a precise line-up each time I move the infeed table for depth changes or had to move the outfeed table for some reason.
Can anyone confirm? basically do the gib shims just put binding pressure on the feed beds (thus Davids idea would work) or are they to ensure ( with the countersunk pits and pointed gib screws) the tables always remain precisely in-line with each other even after unlocking, moving, and re locking the tables, mainly the infeed table, thus telling me I am basically screwed and that my infeed table will never hold a consistent tolerance everytime I make a depth adjustment?

[sean schriver]

Really depends on the condition of the table and ways. New cast iron isn't spec'd to the .002 you are talking about, more like .005-.010. If the PM has that fine grain Meehanite rated cast iron and flat it is worth some effort. There were lots made so the owwm guys may have some parts. Dave
Hey Dave, thanks, can you reply to my reply to the other dave, lol...about the gib shems? I am thinking this is where all my issues are coming from. Once I get both tables 4 corner coplaner (to within .002 while shimming the outfeed table with feeler gauges) as soon as I unlock, move, re-lock the infeed table for a test pass, it does not come back to the original settings. with out this, I'm gonna have to throw in the towel or 4 corner level the tables at cut depth of 1/32 and never change it which would really suck since I use rough-sawn lumber to start with.....

[David Kumm]

I'm no help. I'm a huge fan of old wedgebed jointers but only the ones where the tables bolt to the wedges. The PM uses the design that is hard to fix since the tables are integral. The cast iron work was usually good but years of service- often not too gentle- are take a toll. I always take an 8' level with me to access the droop because it is the pain you are experiencing. Dave

[David Werkheiser]

From what I remember (12-15 years ago) the new gibbs did not have any punch marks on them. As to shimming I only did the out feed side. I tightened up the gibbs on the in feed side to where it slid smoothly, and shimmed the out feed to coplaner. When I set new knives I use a dial indicator on the outfeed table as you do. I sold the 8" Powermatic 8 years ago and went to a 12" Extrema on which I have never moved the out feed table after first set up.
David W

[sean schriver]

Thanks all for your input. I may have located a machine shop that has experience with powermatic jointers and also builds and maintains the machines a local eagle window and door plant. They will be getting back to me on monday as to what needs to be done to get this thing back to factory fresh operation and a price. at that point its up to me to decide whether I invest or buy a new import machine as a $2200 powermatic 8" is at the top of my budget and a $1200 shopfox is very comfortable....
I'll post the results when I get them...Thanks!

[Phil Thien]

If there is enough material on the old bearing cap, I would suggest trying a Heli-Coil or some other threaded insert solution.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks all for your input. I may have located a machine shop that has experience with powermatic jointers and also builds and maintains the machines a local eagle window and door plant. They will be getting back to me on monday as to what needs to be done to get this thing back to factory fresh operation and a price. at that point its up to me to decide whether I invest or buy a new import machine as a $2200 powermatic 8" is at the top of my budget and a $1200 shopfox is very comfortable....
I'll post the results when I get them...Thanks!


Man - I'd be drooling at this option. "Old big arn" restored to pristine condition, rather than new Chi-wan-ese gear. And - a professional shop with tremendous experience in exactly your equipment.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Sean
This file from Tuning your Jointer may help you. http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/JointerTuning.ashx

[sean schriver]

If there is enough material on the old bearing cap, I would suggest trying a Heli-Coil or some other threaded insert solution.
Thanks Phil, I will keep that in mind if I cant oversize the bolt and redrill and tap the existing hole...the present threads on both are mashed.

[sean schriver]

Man - I'd be drooling at this option. "Old big arn" restored to pristine condition, rather than new Chi-wan-ese gear. And - a professional shop with tremendous experience in exactly your equipment.
Well...I would like to but machine shops here run around 80 some per hr so...the cost my be preventitive...but im trying...

[sean schriver]

Im gonna post a lot of pics of the project tonight to a drop box account so all can see what is going on and my theory on how to correct. I will post the link after I get home. You are all welcome to view and let me know your thoughts....thanks!

[sean schriver]

Ok Here it is. I have multiple pictures on a dropbox account and three part video explaining my dilemma...Let me know if this helps or if I can answer any other questions...Thanks for all your help!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c759a22bh6dfoth/AAA1jMcWV7FEEQIwA1TAVuLSa?dl=0

The video's are the last 3 at the bottom and go in order. Just copy and paste the link above in your address bar and there ya go!

[Joe Lazar]

I know this thread is old at this point, but I was curious how this all ended up. I’m looking at a PM model 60 of the same vintage and am concerned about what I’m getting myself into. How did it turn out?

[Mike O'Keefe]

Used to be a place called Redmunds Machinery or something like that. They are-were located in Atlanta. I got parts for my M60 there. Mike O'Keefe

[Don Jarvie]

Join OWWM. Plenty of information and a buy/sell section.

[sean schriver]

I know this thread is old at this point, but I was curious how this all ended up. I’m looking at a PM model 60 of the same vintage and am concerned about what I’m getting myself into. How did it turn out?
Hi Joe, sorry about the delay...
I actually replaced all the brass bushings, wet sanded lightly all the dovetails to get rid of any rust and used a white lithium grease (light coat) to make it slide better. We then flipped the metal shems and off set slightly to present clean sides for the gib screws to pinch into. The gib screws we lightly reground to sharp points to prevent walking when setting the tension with them. We found a machine shop that while they couldn't mill the beds coplanar due to the length of their gantry and my deck beds, I set the table to coplaner as well as possible, made a heavy duty jig to bolt the whole machine to minus the cabinet and motor and fence. they then used a grinding mill that had enough travel and set the whole thing under and ground both decks at the same time to within 2-5 thousandths. I was quite pleased and it stayed within tolerance whenever I made adjustments to bed height once I got it home and re-assembled. no need for metal shems anymore and the deck was not warped and holds tolerance as the bed height is changed.
I actually purchased a new 81" bailey parallelogram jointer and gave this one to my dad for his use in his shop since he paid for the grinding. He says it works like a charm and runs great. Probably not as accurate as my $3000 joiner but damn good enough for the hobby shop/small furniture he makes. I just wanted something easier to adjust, more power, and longer bed length for longer stock.
Hope that helps, let me know if you have questions...was definitely worth the parts and milling cost.