PM2700 / Shaper help

[Ralph Butts]

I have just started using a PM2700 I picked up almost 2 years ago. (moved, new shop setup and paying job interferences) I had never used a shaper prior. I have been practicing or maybe better stated expanding my skill sets making rabbets, grooving and cope cuts. I made a test raised panel door using a rs2000 and rp2000 Freud setups. I also have a CMT insert cutter head and two piece groove and tenon cutter for smaller tenons. After joining the ranks of the sliding table saw owners I am looking to replace my old methods of creating tenons with a dado set. I used a discontinued Delta shaper coping sled that I found on closeout to make my first cope cut on the 2700 and the sleds plastic handles broke the first time I tried to close them. This leads me to my first question. What are other owners of non sliding table shapers using for clamping stock to make tenon cuts? When making a tenon on the shaper is it best or necessary to use an auxiliary fence to allow the fence to have zero clearance around the cutter heads? I assume this will minimize the tendency for the cutters to pull the stock inward. Or being that I am establishing the cut depth against the in feed fence that the out feed fence need not even be coplanar?

I think in regards to making cope cuts I will build a sled that rides against the fence. There are many examples of these on the site. My preference however would be to have a singular solution that can be used both for tenoning and making coping cuts. As someone new to the shaper it appears that some type of sliding table and fence mechanism is more in line with the European spindle molder work methods. I have seen some users utilizing bolt-on tenoning tables. In non-production environments where it is not likely that multiple machines are dedicated to specific functions is there an issue with registering these bolt-on tables when they are removed and reinstalled when needed?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ralph, welcome to the fascinating world of shapers.

I use DeStaco brand toggle clamps, available at industrial and woodworking suppliers.

You do need a zero clearance insert when coping, however not in the fence, you need it on the sliding table (sled).

If you look at the attached photo, you can see the backer board (zero clearance) between the work and the crosscut fence. This prevents chip out on the exit side of the workpiece.

A one piece fence is however excellent for supporting the tenon jig, as it can't tip into the cutter opening.

297923

Regards, Rod.

[J.R. Rutter]

What are other owners of non sliding table shapers using for clamping stock to make tenon cuts?

Shop built sled is what I used for years. I bought a pair of toggle clamps as stock hold-downs and joined them with a handle so that they operated together. I used a smaller toggle clamp to hold the backer so that it was easy to advance it into the cutters as needed to keep a nice tight profile and no tearout on the rail. Sandpaper on the sled surface also helps keep it from wiggling around. Mine rode in the table slot, but it would be a simple conversion to add a fence runner.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a2j4upIB9rU/VDHz3jbaErI/AAAAAAAAF4M/krwU-KCPOOc/s1280/DSCF0009.jpg


When making a tenon on the shaper is it best or necessary to use an auxiliary fence to allow the fence to have zero clearance around the cutter heads? I assume this will minimize the tendency for the cutters to pull the stock inward. Or being that I am establishing the cut depth against the in feed fence that the out feed fence need not even be coplanar?

I wouldn't hurt, but I don't think that it is necessary if the rails are held securely. I do prefer to have a zero clearance fence or some other continuous fence support to run things like raised panels or moulding cutters. The outfeed and infeed fences do not need to be coplanar for cope cuts, as long as the infeed is out further so that there is clearance past the cutters.


I have seen some users utilizing bolt-on tenoning tables. In non-production environments where it is not likely that multiple machines are dedicated to specific functions is there an issue with registering these bolt-on tables when they are removed and reinstalled when needed?

Dowel pins would help register it consistently. Failing that, if I were moving one with any regularity, I would just clamp the widest square piece that I could fit (11" in my case), snug the whole thing up so that the clamped part is against up to the infeed fence and tighten the guide to the table to maintain that square alignment. To fine tune, run that wide part through the cutters to trim the end completely. Loosen the fence and adjust the infeed off of the trimmed part that is still clamped. I trim about 0.012" from each end of my rails, so I use tri-folded paper as a shim to position the infeed fence/stop.

[Kevin Jenness]

My method in my home shop is what J.R. Rutter shows, a table groove guided sled with Destaco holddowns and another holddown on the fence that pushes the workpiece and the sled down on the machine table. A stop on the fence sets the tenon depth, but the fence is not necessarily set parallel to the sled travel. I cope before sticking, and I use a fresh backer for each cut. Clamping the workpiece and the backer firmly to the sled is critical. You can use a fence guided sled, but it will be difficult to avoid a gap in the fence, depending on the cutters used. With a plain tenon and no center cutter as shown in J.R's photo, you can maintain a thin continuous fence in the center of the cut, but with many cope cutters, and if you are trimming the tenon end, that is not possible. Thank you, J.R., for the clear photo.

[Ralph Butts]

Rod I have been a bit envious of your setup for quite some time now. Thanks for your response. I get the need for a backer board to support the fibers through the cut axis. That might be one of the few things I do have a clear understanding of. I think my predominate issues surround making the cut without the luxury of having a sliding table and a bit of confusion on sleds that ride in the miter slot vs those that ride against the fence.

[Ralph Butts]

JR thanks for the answers. I have been under the impression (don't know why) that the preferred method was to ride the sled against the fence. This led me to question how the sled did not get destroyed using some types of cutters that were not convex to pass by the height of the sled. Apparently it requires a runner. Are there any advantages of using the sled in slot over riding against the fence?

Your picture is really worth a thousand words. Is the base just plywood? Can the runner underneath be a standard miter bar? This seems like a much less expensive option than a thousand dollar or more tenoning table. I think I will give this method a try. I was also going put a couple of chamfered pieces of MDF on the stock aluminum PM2700 split fence so that I could get a closer fit around the cutters.

[J.R. Rutter]

If all of your cutters are the same minor diameter, then the sled with slot runner will never contact the cutters, even if you stack them (with say the sticking set underneath). You also do not have to worry about the fence faces being coplanar. With a slot type sled, you will not inadvertently bump the sled into the cutters since it is trapped in its path by the runner. To make a jig that rides along the fence, you would run a straight guide runner on top of some corner blocks so that it is higher than the cutters. The sled base is spaced away from the cutters and the rails stick out the distance set by the guide fence that rides along the shaper fence. I prefer the wide open view afforded by the runner type sled.

The base on my sleds were MDF. The runners were HDPE screwed to the bottom (overtightening slightly deformed the runner just enough for a nice tight fit). The back of the sled is hardwood screwed to the base from the bottom so as not to strip the MDF with the clamping force. I used T-nuts and bolts with lock nuts through the back of the main block of wood to create a two-point contact for the sacrificial backer. You can see one of them in the picture. This allows very fine tuning of the 90 degree angle and makes the backer immune to sawdust or chips throwing it out of square during use.

Depending on your cutter set(s), it might be possible to make the sled tall enough so that you can mount the sticking cutter under the coping cutter, spaced and shimmed on the spindle so that it is automatically registered to the right height for either operation without moving the spindle.

[Jordan Lane]

may i suggest you look at Copecrafter, the Weaver catalog on paqe 166 is what i use, and Wymmatic Inc.

[Max Neu]

297991297992Here is my setup,it's similar to some of the others on here.I use an Aigner fence,and add a 3/4" spacer under the cutter so I can swing the bar over and create a continuous fence under the cutter for the sled to ride against.I use an Aigner bracket that mounts onto the Aigner universal bracker that I use to clamp a board across the table to keep the sled against the fence.

[J.R. Rutter]

The Aigner fence is a nice piece of gear. More refined and sturdy than the SCM aluminum fence system that I have, and faster to change. Max, is the straight edge that connects to the table ends sturdy enough to run as an outboard fence? Seems like it would be ideal.

[Max Neu]

JR,
I have never used it for that, but I would say yes, it is solid as a rock, I also have the bigger set of clamps which are even stronger. Those clamps can also be mounted to the fence so you can add a straight edge along the fence.Aigner has a great system with all their attachments. I would highly recommend getting one of their catalogs if you don't already have one.

[Jim Andrew]

I got a Grizzly shaper a year ago on the Christmas sale, with the power feeder. I use it for my rails and panels, but just keep using the router table for the cope cuts. I ordered the router bit spindle for the shaper, so didn't have to change cutters, although should change to a shaper cutter for the panels, as the router panel cutter throws the chips down into the cabinet.The shaper is a huge improvement over a router table for making doors.

[Peter Quinn]

The shaper is a huge improvement over a router table for making doors.

Yes, it certainly is. And making the switch to shaper cutters is taking the final step in that direction. Having the feeder improves things versus a router table, but the shapers speed is still a bit on the low side for router cope and stick sets (tip speed too slow due to diameter), and the panel cutters week point it the 1/2" shank. Its the difference between getting it done and doing it right. You will I think wonder why you didn't make the switch sooner once you have. At $300+ for a decent cope and stick shaper set I get why the router bits you already own stay in use, but if you make a lot of doors its money whose cost will be rewarded.