Motor for router lift

[John Coloccia]

I'll be looking for a router lift motor soon. The PC7518 is obviously the standard choice, and I'm all for that except for one thing. I'll say this as nicely as I can: Porter Cable quality has gone into the toilet the last few years. Their routers have gone from behaving like my old, USA made router (almost 20 years old and still going strong) to being questionable out of the box and needing bearings in 6 months.

So tell me about the 7518. Have they managed to at least keep THAT particular motor on track, or should I just skip PC altogether and go somewhere else? If so, where do I go?

[Bill Huber]

I have only had mine for 2 years and it has been use a lot in the 2 years on just about everything I can think of, raised panels, box joints and everything in between with no problem.

I will say that when I got it the collet had a bad snap ring on it and I could not get a bit in or out very well, I got a new Precision collet and everything has been just fine, I love the Precision collet and now that I have it I am glad the one of the 7518 was bad.

[Phil Thien]

Interesting thread. I'd like to get a 7518 some day but hadn't thought about how PC's recent "realignment" may cause problems for some of these higher-end tools.

And I just watched over at woodgears.ca how routers with removable motors are not sold in Europe so I sure hope these things aren't kicked to the street by whomever is running PC these days.

[John Coloccia]

Interesting thread. I'd like to get a 7518 some day but hadn't thought about how PC's recent "realignment" may cause problems for some of these higher-end tools.

And I just watched over at woodgears.ca how routers with removable motors are not sold in Europe so I sure hope these things aren't kicked to the street by whomever is running PC these days.

I know that the 690 (or whatever it's called now) was one of the first to go downhill. Last I checked, several years back, the 7518 was solid as ever, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[ken masoumi]

I also need a decent router ,the 7518 quality may have gone lower but not the price,the last time I checked it was more expensive than most other routers .the problem is,there's no guarantee others will be any better,Milwaukee may be an alternative:confused:.

[John Coloccia]

Milwaukee's gone to the dark side. Chinese owned, made in China. There is absolutely no way I will spend almost $500 on a Chinese router. I can buy a Festool router for $500, for heaven's sake. That's the thing. If not the 7518, then WHAT? If Festool made a motor, I'd be all over it.

[David Weaver]

I think festools big router is closer to $800 isn't it? I have the OF 1400, but wouldn't put it in a table.

I don't have much to comment about routers, as I have a 7518 in a table, but routers aren't something I use very much. It performs well, but it's 8 years old with little use and that's not very relevant for current stuff.

If they can't make something relatively plain like a 7518 well, while festool can make a marvel of clean precise manufacturing (albeit at a cost), then I have no clue what a good route is. The milwaukee always was sort of a second rate option for a table, and if it's chinese made and still $475, a very bad joke.

I'd still risk it with the PC, I see them new on ebay for $299 (less than the motor itself costs from amazon). `

[Kent A Bathurst]

I know that the 690 (or whatever it's called now) was one of the first to go downhill.

My "newest" 690 was mfg maybe 3 years ago. My "oldest" maybe 15 years ago. I don't notice any change in overall quality [HP increase, some small design differences, VS vs fixed speed, nothing of note].

First I have heard that the 690 has gone downhill. That right there would annoy me. Personal experience, or anecdotal?

[John Coloccia]

First I have heard that the 690 has gone downhill. That right there would annoy me. Personal experience, or anecdotal?

My own 690 is close to 20 years old, but I know a good handful of workers that bought new ones to replace their ailing older ones, and they were replacing the bearings within the year. If I remember correctly, one guy actually fried the motor. The general consensus was also that there was more vibration (maybe bearing or collet related?). This was a few years back. Maybe they've worked out their problems after moving to Mexico and things are right again. That's sort of why I started this thread. I don't really know where they are anymore. I haven't specifically heard anything bad about the 7518, but I also haven't really been too active in my woodworking community the last few years, so I'm not hearing all the "dirt" anymore.

In contrast, the little Dewalt palm router is a thing of beauty, silky smooth and gives me no trouble at all. So it's not like they CAN'T get it right when they want to.

[Jamie Buxton]

I have a 7518 motor in a lift. It is about a year old, and has not given me any problems. However, it is not one of those tools I use every day; I'm much more likely to use a handheld router.

[Kent A Bathurst]

......... Dewalt palm router is a thing of beauty, silky smooth and gives me no trouble at all. So it's not like they CAN'T get it right when they want to.

Had not heard about those other problems. Siiiigh........another "old reliable" down the drain.

On the DW - I might be wrong, but in the back of my mind, there is a suspicion they are upgrading the DW line to be the top-end, positioning the venerable PC in the mid-range, and relegating B&D to the bottom of the heap [where it always was, in my reference chart].

[Jerry Wright]

Might check Amazon reviews. Everyone doesn't seem agree on the toilet track.

[Alan Bienlein]

MLCS has one that is the same size as the PC7518 for about $220. Just scroll down the page to see it.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/u-turn-lift.html

[Halgeir Wold]

Just for info, but the Bosch 1617 is available in a european version - at roughly 3x the US price.........
Looks quite similar - don't know if there are other differences than the price tag....:confused:

[John Coloccia]

Just for info, but the Bosch 1617 is available in a european version - at roughly 3x the US price.........
Looks quite similar - don't know if there are other differences than the price tag....:confused:

Bosch manufactures....or manufactured, at any rate...all over the place. For example, I THINK (I have to check) that my Bosch 1617 might actually be made in the USA (or at least assembled here), though I believe it's now made in Mexico. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it's obviously not going to be the same product. I wouldn't be surprised if the European version was made in Germany, or Sweden or something like that. It's very difficult to keep track of, and manufacturers just aren't particularly forthcoming for the most part.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

John
When the bearing in my youngest PC7518 (15 years young) went out. The the bearings that came out where rated for 20K rpm (label on grease seal) New bearing from Porter Cable are just electric motor rated bearings. I am not spending my money there anymore. Good luck. Good bearings are at the heart any electric motor.

[John Coloccia]

Maybe the idea is to just replace the bearings right out of the box, but I'm sure that voids the warranty. Grrr...that's why I get so annoyed with this stuff. I guess the bean counters finally got their hands on the 7518 too.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Might check Amazon reviews. Everyone doesn't seem agree on the toilet track.

I've never had confidence in either the qualifications or motivation of people that post reviews on commercial sites. Who are these people? Some must be smart - stands to reason - but some must be the typical man-on-the-street. Or, on-the-keyboard.

Here, at least, we have a group that have a legitimate, focused. interest in one topic. Even then, there are posters I have followed over the years, and grown to respect, and others I have followed over the years who make me scratch my head in wonderment and confusion.

And I am in all of those categories my self. I "get" that. But at least, long-term members have enough background on me to be able to judge the quality and worthiness of my comments.

Except McGaha - he thinks the Lions have a decent team. Every year. He simply does not get it. :D :D :D

[Phil Thien]

I've never had confidence in either the qualifications or motivation of people that post reviews on commercial sites. Who are these people? Some must be smart - stands to reason - but some must be the typical man-on-the-street. Or, on-the-keyboard.


I agree w/ you. But some of the reviews make it pretty clear that the writer is pretty experienced about the subject at hand. Others make it pretty clear the opposite is true. There are some helpful reviews but it can be painful to parse through the bad ones.

[John Coloccia]

I've never had confidence in either the qualifications or motivation of people that post reviews on commercial sites. Who are these people? Some must be smart - stands to reason - but some must be the typical man-on-the-street. Or, on-the-keyboard.

Here, at least, we have a group that have a legitimate, focused. interest in one topic. Even then, there are posters I have followed over the years, and grown to respect, and others I have followed over the years who make me scratch my head in wonderment and confusion.

And I am in all of those categories my self. I "get" that. But at least, long-term members have enough background on me to be able to judge the quality and worthiness of my comments.

Except McGaha - he thinks the Lions have a decent team. Every year. He simply does not get it. :D :D :D

http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Larson-580-1000-Kunz-Spokeshave/dp/B000CD1MVQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1412550793&sr=1-2&keywords=kunz

This also gets some pretty good reviews. I can tell you with some certainty that there is a real chance these Kunz tools are actually the lousiest woodworking tools ever made. I gave one away once with the one stipulation that the recipient can't send it back. You would be better off taking the money you would have spent, and perhaps using it to blow your nose, as at least you'll get SOME value for your money.

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1412551522&sr=1-3&keywords=soldering+iron
This gets great reviews too. Part of what I do is help people with their soldering. The single biggest problem people have is using junk like this.

What I find with a lot of online reviews is the people who review them really just often times don't know what the heck they're talking about, or there's some twisted psychological thing going on where they buy something that's not great but then write a good review to justify their own purchase.

I pretty much ignore online reviews in favor of talking to a handful of guys I know and trust who have had experience with the product. In this case, the average of a large number of reviews is really not useful. The 2 or 3 reviews written by the knowledgeable people are what you need to see, but how do you find those?

[Peter Quinn]

I haven't tried a new 7518 lately, seems to me the last real PC pro tool they haven't sacked. The 310 trim router...gone, replaced with that pathetic excuse for a laminate trimmer. The port-a-plane.....gone, but thats not a surprise. Lots of modern "carpenters" don't even know how to hang a door properly in the field let alone need a $700 tool to do so exceptionally. The old bullet sanders...gone. Hard to convert to dust collection? All their most serious tools are out of the line up, I go into the big box and look at whats left.....looks more like B&D stuff than the PC I remember. I can say I used a 690 for a few years recently along side some older models, and frankly the newer one was a great upgrade in every way. Motor was smoother, VS soft start was a good feature, the locking mechanism was actually usable rather than the old giant knuckle buster turn buckle arrangement. And the motor was smooth as silk in use, and I used it a lot. I've never been in love with that depth mechanism adjustment...from the people who brought you the tilt-a whirl carnival ride its a fixed based router! If only gravity would cease that would be a real fine tool. Real joy truing to take .015" out of a set up with that.

So if PC is headed down, milwakee has gone far east....what exactly is left? What about C.R. Onsrud! Im sure the cost hurts, but the 500SS (http://www.cronsrud.com/500SS.html) has to be the best router table imaginable, especially for a luthier! Its what every ultimate router table dreams of becoming when it grows up.

[Rick Potter]

John,

Why not just look for a nice used one. I found two, both with lifts attached. One even had a whole Rockler table attached. $300 each.

I have seen a couple recently with a home made router table that didn't look very fancy, but had lifts with them. Just make your own table.

Rick P

[John Coloccia]

So if PC is headed down, milwakee has gone far east....what exactly is left? What about C.R. Onsrud! Im sure the cost hurts, but the 500SS (http://www.cronsrud.com/500SS.html) has to be the best router table imaginable, especially for a luthier! Its what every ultimate router table dreams of becoming when it grows up.

The whole point of the overarm pin router for luthiers is that you can route on surfaces that are curved, like archtops, for example. To use it with the pin on top, now, I need to make a jig to hold the curved surface level. So I guess they screwed up too. LOL :)

I really do wonder if maybe PC has fixed some of the problems they had. People in this thread that I trust are having good look with the router that other people I trust were having lousy luck with some years ago. Hmmmm.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I really do wonder if maybe PC has fixed some of the problems they had. People in this thread that I trust are having good look with the router that other people I trust were having lousy luck with some years ago. Hmmmm.


Hey - what's the downside? You get it. You try it out. You don't like it. You post it for sale here. Someone is always looking to add to their collection of 690's. LIke, especially, guys that use jigs for DT drawer boxes - they got tired of the router setups a loooong time ago. New ones sell for a good % of NIB.

Not remotely possible it could be the biggest waste of $$ in you WW adventures.

[Tom M King]

I bought three 7518s, reconditioned (maybe someone opened the boxes and got scared) from CPO a little over a year ago, and they have never done anything but run dead nuts as smooth as the 20 year old ones I already had. Get one from CPO and there is no trouble at all with returns if there is an issue. I sent a grinder back once, and the total cost, including shipping went back on my card, plus they supplied the return pickup label. I have one of each, and multiples of some, and there is no smoother running and cutting motor than the big PC.

[John Coloccia]

Hey - what's the downside? You get it. You try it out. You don't like it. You post it for sale here. Someone is always looking to add to their collection of 690's. LIke, especially, guys that use jigs for DT drawer boxes - they got tired of the router setups a loooong time ago. New ones sell for a good % of NIB.

Not remotely possible it could be the biggest waste of $$ in you WW adventures.

Actually, this whole thing started with wondering if the 7518 was still doing OK, because I'm looking for a motor for a lift, but you're right. If it ended up melting into a puddle of pot metal and cheap bearings, it would barely register as noise on the "Wow...now THAT was a mistake" scale.

[Myk Rian]

The 690, to me, is a bit low powered for a table. I have an 890 in mine.
Not sure where they're made now, but it's been one real reliable router.

[Ruperto Mendiones]

I"ve had the 7518 for 5 years and nary a problem with it. Cerritos College uses at least 6 in router tables and I haven't seen one out of service. I can't answer to current manufacture.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Bosch manufactures....or manufactured, at any rate...all over the place.I don't know for sure if Bosch actually manufactures all over or if they source from all over and slap their name on something.
I got sort of burned by them a couple of years ago on a hammer drill.
I paid "Bosch money" for what's not even a Harbor Freight hammer drill.

[Peter Quinn]

The whole point of the overarm pin router for luthiers is that you can route on surfaces that are curved, like archtops, for example. To use it with the pin on top, now, I need to make a jig to hold the curved surface level. So I guess they screwed up too. LOL :)

I really do wonder if maybe PC has fixed some of the problems they had. People in this thread that I trust are having good look with the router that other people I trust were having lousy luck with some years ago. Hmmmm.

I was actually thinking you move the over arm pin outof the way, throw a fence on there, treat it like a regular router table.

[John Coloccia]

I was actually thinking you move the over arm pin outof the way, throw a fence on there, treat it like a regular router table.

Actually, you know where some of this is leading. Maybe I want a shaper. I hesitate here because it doesn't remove the need for a router table. I still need to be able to route with small, 1/4" bits for some operations. The shaper, however, allows me to do things that are impossible on a router table, like stacking a bunch of cutters on a rub collar, and profiling the entire back of the neck in one shot. No way I'd ever be able to profile 3" of wood on a router, if for no other reason than the vibration alone would be terrible, but even a small 1.5HP shaper would have no problem with that.

[Peter Quinn]

Felder shaper, high speed router spindle......big quarter round cutter for blanking necks.....nice spiral pattern head and bearing for shaping basic body curves, maybe not into tight bouts but close....sounds ideal. I got a freeborn cutter that the previous owner used for making bar rail moldings as part of a package deal....I had considered trying to make a tele, held that cutter up to my present tele neck....very very close! Two 10 second passes and the neck shape on the back is 85% there. Go shaper!






this message brought to you by the shaper lovers council of Connecticut.

[Guy Belleman]

I now have two router tables, both with Triton routers in them, which have a built in lift. I really like the Triton's in that mode. They are so quiet and smooth, that I have to remind myself to turn it off. I still use my DeWalt out of the table.

[Jamie Buxton]

Actually, you know where some of this is leading. Maybe I want a shaper. I hesitate here because it doesn't remove the need for a router table. I still need to be able to route with small, 1/4" bits for some operations. The shaper, however, allows me to do things that are impossible on a router table, like stacking a bunch of cutters on a rub collar, and profiling the entire back of the neck in one shot. No way I'd ever be able to profile 3" of wood on a router, if for no other reason than the vibration alone would be terrible, but even a small 1.5HP shaper would have no problem with that.

A guitar neck looks pretty complicated to me -- lots of shapes and curves. Trying to get a shaper to do the whole thing in one pass seems challenging. However, a small CNC machine should be able to do it. Maybe that's what you want.

[John Coloccia]

A guitar neck looks pretty complicated to me -- lots of shapes and curves. Trying to get a shaper to do the whole thing in one pass seems challenging. However, a small CNC machine should be able to do it. Maybe that's what you want.

Ha ha. I just sold my cnc machine. The idea of the "profile" is to establish the thickness and angles of the headstock, neck shaft and heel. No curves. Just a straight cut along a profile. I traditionally do this in several steps with a SafT planer. There are other neat things I can do with a shaper that is typically not easy to do. Having a tall spindle is convenient.

Lots to think about. Looks like the 7518 is still the best available for a lift, so there it is.

[Greg R Bradley]

According to the local authorized service center, the HUGE problem with the 7518 is the bearings. Secondary is the speed control circuit. They said not to buy one. Look at a PC 7518 and the Milwaukee 5625 taken apart in the service department and you will buy the Milwaukee. Just look at the collets of each. It is shocking.

I bought another Milwaukee 5625. However, the 5625 can have another issue based upon your usage. It has a better fan design than the 7518, which pulls more dust through the motor than the 7518 when mounted upside down in a router table. If you have dust collection, this is no problem. If you just hang it under an open table, it will need to be cleaned internally more often than the 7518.

Milwaukee is owned by a Chinese company and I HATE that. However, for years after being bought by the Chinese, they continued to buy components made by one of my companies because they couldn't duplicate the quality in China. Components made in California, shipped to China, to be made into tools, to be shipped back to the US. I have to give that some respect.

I have bought Milwaukee, made in China, 5243 Grinders, 0300-20, 0100-20, and 0101-20 drills. I almost hate to say it but they are fantastic. These are the high end commercial products but Milwaukee's Chinese $250 corded drills and $400 Grinders seems to be every bit as good as they were. I'm not totally sure how I feel about that...............

[John Coloccia]

http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/unhappy/brick-wall-017.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/free-unhappy-smileys.html)

[Robert LaPlaca]

Ironically the best feature of the 7518 was the large bearings, especially the one very large one close to the collet.. I know the speed control was the Achilles heel of the 7518, a very expensive part I think $120, makes me wonder if the new 7518 speed control has been improved..

[Dave Zellers]

... makes me wonder if the new 7518 speed control has been improved..

I have an old 7518 (15-20 years) and just bought a new one (motor only) for my new lift. The only differences I see are the soft start is much slower and the 1/2" collet is cheaper but I have other PC routers so I just don't use that one. It's disturbing to read about the bearings but that's out of my hands now.

Amazon has the motor only for $308.