Who really runs your business?

[Sean Coyne]

I've been working for a fairly young (~2 years old) company, for 1 1/2 years. I noticed that the sales people run the shop. They more or less tell the engravers (myself) what they can do and when to get it done, despite the fact that the sales people have very little understanding of how the machines work. The shop I worked at before this was pretty much run by the engravers. They would tell the sales people what could be done and in what amount of time and that forced the sales people to conform to the engravers schedule and needs. I prefer the latter when dealing with the engraving/customization business, am I odd? Granted I may be biased toward my job (engraver) but I think it makes more sense to give more power to the engravers.

Who really runs your shop?

[Dee Gallo]

Considering the fact that I run a one person shop, my answer is BOTH. My business cannot run without the engraving skills OR the sales skills. They are equal partners. Sounds like your shop needs to have more cooperation and less focus on control. Both sides can help the shop in general to succeed, if they work together.

[Kev Williams]

I'm 60 years old, been doing this full time since I was 20, and one thing we've never had is a "sales person". People just keep calling and showing up. :) At this time, "we" consists of me, the wife, and an ex BIL. I do pretty much everything around here, so I pretty much run the business.

As long as it's okay with the wife.
;)

[Jacob Davalos]

Can't have a business without sales. Can't have sales without a product. Chicken or the egg?

[Mike Null]

Who signs the paychecks?

[Phil Thien]

Well I'm not an engraver, I do IT work for a living.

I've worked with some very successful and other not-so-successful businesses.

And the ones being steered by sales have, in general, been more successful than those steered by production.

Not always, but that has ben my general experience.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Typically you want a solid sales structure and production timeline. Then have a discussion when exceptions are required. The reality is, sales should be able to push production a little bit because if production says "no" and you lose the sale, does anyone really win?

[Kevin Gregerson]

As long as sales knows what they can get away with great. If sales has no idea, then yea, they get to lose the sale and it's their own damn fault.

[Bill Stearns]

SEAN:
Way I see it - if sales people 'n production people (in your case: engravers) aren't working in harmony, I've got' a believe costly problems are occurring within the business. (ex: lost of sales, loss of customers, missed delivery deadlines, etc.) Not to mention: frustration on everybody's part, uh? At the very least, the business can't be running as efficiently as it might otherwise. Ignorance, or disregard, of the other's side's problems 'n issues - well, this needs to be addressed one way, or another. (Strange, you didn't mention "management" (management oversight) 'less I missed it To me, it doesn't sound like either sales or production have the company's best interest at heart. Lastly, I was kind' a hoping someone might suggest: Ultimately, customers run a business! - well, maybe not, but still .... my two-cents!

Bill

[Pete James]

Lord, please don't let my customers take over. I can hardly deal with them as is.

[Keith Colson]

This is exactly why I don't want to be a big company with employees. I like to keep my life simple. But hey, maybe thats why my laser only runs 8 hours a week because I am such a -- salesman. I let my website find my customers for me for free. I do have plenty of work but I would prefer the laser to be running 20 hours a week. I enjoy laser work as most of it is pretty straight forward compared to all the complicated stuff I normally do.

I had a great job the other day. The customer turned up with cold beers, acrylic(extra) and nice files. We sipped away while his job ran. He knows how to get a discount haha.

Cheers
Keith

[Kevin Gregerson]

This is exactly why I don't want to be a big company with employees. I like to keep my life simple. But hey, maybe thats why my laser only runs 8 hours a week because I am such a -- salesman. I let my website find my customers for me for free. I do have plenty of work but I would prefer the laser to be running 20 hours a week. I enjoy laser work as most of it is pretty straight forward compared to all the complicated stuff I normally do.

I had a great job the other day. The customer turned up with cold beers, acrylic(extra) and nice files. We sipped away while his job ran. He knows how to get a discount haha.

Cheers
Keith
Spoken like an Aussie, in all reality it depends on the kind of sales people you get. Some will gladly sit around and collect a check. Some will give you more work than you ever dreamed of while collecting a bigger check. Some will barely earn enough to pay for themselves. And, the few surfer sales folks that will drive you nuts causing your business volume to seesaw up and down every month going back and forth between barely being able to breath and barely having enough work to get through lunch with unpredictable volumes of business never letting you take a vacation but making a fair bit of money for the business nearly equal or beating the one that caused you more work than you could ever dream because they'll either fail or win really big.

[David Somers]

Kevin,

Faux Pax alert! I think you just called a Kiwi an Aussie! I think you owe him at least a few brews now! Book that flight soon! <friendly grin!>

Dave

[Kevin Gregerson]

Kevin,

Faux Pax alert! I think you just called a Kiwi an Aussie! I think you owe him at least a few brews now! Book that flight soon! <friendly grin!>

Dave

Lol, the toughness of all the folks in that part of the earth they may as well all be Aussies. But I understand much like most canadians don't want to be called americans because well, some don't like our politics.

[Keith Colson]

Haha right Dave, I am a Kiwi. The main reason I don't want staff is then I have to manage them and set up a payroll and all kinds of other . I can get contractors in if needed, with no obligations other than paying them. I love having a simple garage style business. I especially like it on those nasty weather days. I remember getting up early and driving through peak hour traffic. Now I just get up, make a coffee and head down stairs.

Cheers
Keith

[Steve Morris]

Got to agree with Keith, done the years of corporate run around now have a 30 second commute :)

[Bill Stearns]

Who runs the business? Earlier mention of sales people 'n production people (engravers) facing off - each group, apparently, wishing to exert "power" over the other - not a place I'd want' a work! Even the mention of that workplace dredges up sore memories! IMO: Managers, or owners, are solely responsible for creating a "culture of cooperation 'n understanding" 'tween sales and production folks. 'Cause each side will indeed have their own personal agenda: fact 'o life. Ultimately, profit or loss tells the story. And, loss can't be good for either side. Just thinking 'bout businesses dealing with this issue makes me think: Oh, what' a wonderful decision I long 'go made to run my own business! - a one-horse show! No question, no argument, as to who runs things. Sounds like others of you, like me, left the corporate world behind to do your own thing. Tight as things get, sometimes - I've never once questioned my decision.

Bill

[Kev Williams]

I love having a simple garage style business. I especially like it on those nasty weather days. I remember getting up early and driving through peak hour traffic. Now I just get up, make a coffee and head down stairs.
I used to drive here every day, but since my folks passed away I'm now a downstairs commuter. My problem is getting back UPstairs. Too easy to not shut the place down.

But I do love the simple biz life. Never had an employee, nor any of the miles of red tape that comes with them. The vast majority of my customers are other businesses. Off-the-street business is tough, time consuming, and the money isn't nearly as good. In fact, it's that time of year when my website goes 'out of order' for the holidays... ;)

[Mike Lysov]

I sell online only and even all my regular customers either have come after purchasing from me through eBay or through my online store where they are coming from google/bing or online business directories. So I would say nobody is really doing sales for me and nobody is telling me what I need to cut/engrave except for my customers. I have no problems with fulfilling orders but packing and communication(through email only) takes so much time that I am thinking to hire someone just to help me with these two very time consuming tasks.

[Sean Coyne]

Thanks for the feedback creekers! What I took from most of the responses is that neither side should be vying for power or control. And to try to adjust the issues concerning that is a waste of time if management isn't willing to help. As the engraver in this situation, I find it frustrating that sales can and has given us ridiculous deadlines without batting an eye. These concerns have been presented to sales but in reality BILL is right, they need to go to management and the fat cats at the top need to do more to smooth relations and expectations between production and sales.

On a side not, I would LOVE to have my own machine and answer to no one but myself. But until then im stuck playing with other peoples machines.

[David Somers]

Sean,

in an effort to create more collaboration in your setup, how about having sales staff come down to work on the floor with experienced folks and learn a bit about what is going on. And also have floor folks spend some time in sales learning more about their operations? And although I normally groan when I have to go through this type of exercise, someone who is good at team building can accomplish a lot in a few days to create a more collaborative work environment. I seem to end up in the mediocre sessions most of the time which is a total waste of time. Though a good source of free donuts otherwise. A good facilitator though is a gem and can do a lot to help build a better working group.

Dave

[Sean Coyne]

David, I completely agree. Cross-department education is something we've played with but a high employee turn around makes that tactic an issue after 6 months. The high turn around rate should also be a early sign of larger problems at this company.

At the end of the day, I think teaching sales everything they need to know about the production process's is always going to be an uphill battle. Its not their bag, ya know?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Setup a production schedule. It takes "X days to do a job". Then if a rush job comes in the sales person says "I have to check with production". Then have management make the final call. If you don't like the call from management, then you'll probably end up looking for a new job sooner rather than later.

There is another way of looking at this that production rarely think about. Sometimes a sales person is sitting all day on the phone calling and emailing and they are slammed and they can't keep up with the requests but the production team is under control. Do you come and help them answer their phone calls or emails?

It really goes both ways. This is typically why you need a manager/owner in a position to make key decisions.

[Bob Sandle]

I feel your pain, Sean. I worked in a fast paced retail 8am-5pm Monday-Friday trophy/awards/sign shop for 18 years. It was just the boss and I for the first 12 years, and she accepted every order that came in despite my pleas. I worked early mornings, late nights, weekends - and she never really understood what it took to pull this off. I was compensated, and not held against my will obviously, but it lead to a ton of ill feelings. I finally burned out, got a couple lasers set up in my basement, and never looked back. It is a vastly under-appreciated skill / art.

[Dave Sheldrake]

My MO is simple, I never ask any of my staff to do something I can't or won't do myself.

My workshop manager is one of the most valuable assets I have, without him I'd be long gone by now :)
My staff pay me a lot of money each year, in return for that I respect them and will help them where ever possible,they get paid well above going rates, time off for family stuff, the odd late in early home if needed etc etc in return I get 150% effort every day. On one occasion a job had gone badly wrong and it was due out in the morning, to a man every one of them stepped up without being asked to work overnight setting aside their own home commitments, loyalty is something I value above all things.

I may be the MD but they run the business for me and without them I wouldn't have had the success I have.

cheers

Dave

[Craig Matheny]

Well we own two different businesses and both a detail orientated and limited on ability engraving and embroidery. We have this issue all the time and the reality is the sales people will sell anything they can because that is how they make their money on the engraving side it is not as much an issue but on embroidery there are major limitations when it comes to detail and we have flat out rejected orders when they do not meet the standards. I believe if my company name goes on the project it will be the best that can be done or it does not get done plain and simple. Fire a few reps and the rest fall in line there are some great reps out there and once in awhile you just have to find a new one that follows the companies policies.