Stair tread opinions and a question about risers.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have some stair treads that are carpeted now and I plan to replace them with oak treads.
I have no access to the underside so I have to attach them from the top.
My plan is to use a Forstner bit - probably 1" - and drill out a cavity, which I plan to plug with a dowel.

The house is a split level so it's more on the "modern end" of things, not like a colonial...

This is for the stairs in the family room which lead out to the garage - so - it's rather informal.

I also have a set of stairs on the opposite end of the family room which lead up into the living room- so - that's a bit more formal.

Opinions here - -

Should I or would you:

Use a contrasting color dowel to highlight them - or -
Use an oak dowel and try to minimize the plug?

Use the same treatment for both sets of stairs?


Risers..??

I'm going to use painted white risers. Should I go with 1/2" plywood or use solid wood (poplar or soft maple)?
Or 1/2" MDF?

[ken masoumi]

I have used tread covers (http://www.replacementstairparts.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=110) before ,they looked great when the job was done,to fasten each cover I used PL Premium construction adhesive (http://www.lepageproducts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=84),no nails or screws,just the adhesive.
http://www.replacementstairparts.com/images/sideview-beauty.jpg

[Rich Engelhardt]

Ken,
Thanks - but - I already have over $300.00 worth of treads I bought a couple of years ago.
I'm just now getting the chance to install them.

[Paul Saffold]

+1 for PL Premium adhesive w/ 2 finish nails (pre drill) per side to attach 3/4" prefinished oak treads. Risers 1/4” birch ply. Prime and paint before instal. Treads from http://www.stair-treads.com. Inspect carefully. They were good about replacing photographed and documented treads that were defective (4 of 14). Installation videos on their website very helpful. Very happy with the results.

[scott vroom]

Rich, for clarification: You're going to remove and replace existing treads and risers?

For the treads I'd forgo the plug holes and use PL Premium and finish nails as suggested above.

For the risers I'd be inclined to use min 1/2" maple pre-painted, glued and nailed (poplar would be less expensive but would show the grain beneath the paint). You could use 1/4" ply but I'd be concerned about it flexing and the hollow sound when kicked.

[Peter Quinn]

For the treads, pl, trim head or break away head screws, putty to match, move on. If you want the contrasting accents as a design feature That's your call, not my favorite thing on stairs, lots of work laying it out to get the look....I'd skip it. And skip the plugs too.

for the risers, I prefer wood. Plywood dents and can't be sanded much, I guess it is paint grade so could be filled. Soft maple or poplar would be my preference though, easier to repair, MDF is my last choice if boots with water are involved. MDF doesn't take melting snow well.

[rudy de haas]

hi:

It depends - on what your wife wants and on what's undernearh the carpet.

My house was built in about 1976 and the plywood under the stairway (and foyer) carpet turned out to have an odd "feature". Specifically, parts of it swell a bit when you put glue on it. My hickory treads were very flat but even small amounts of PL-400 accentuated unevennesses (nice word, huh?) in the plywood. As a result the treads loosened with traffic - now each tread has four wood screws with dowel fillers on top: two at each end. Since I could not get hickory dowels, I used maple but the color and surface textures are different and my wife complains about their appearance. Easy to fix, but not anywhere near the top of the job jar.

So my suggestion is: take the carpet off, put one tread in place using PL-400 and maybe a pin or finish nailer and one using screws and dowels, then have people walk on them for a week or four and see which works better and offends less.

[George Bokros]

First question is, do you know how the existing treads and risers are installed? If they we're put down with construction adhesive you will likely damage the stringers removing them.

I would use construction adhesive an 16ga finish nails and fill the holes with putty to match the stain. Or I would use trim screws and putty the holes.

[Sam Murdoch]

For the treads, pl, trim head or break away head screws, putty to match, move on. If you want the contrasting accents as a design feature That's your call, not my favorite thing on stairs, lots of work laying it out to get the look....I'd skip it. And skip the plugs too.

for the risers, I prefer wood. Plywood dents and can't be sanded much, I guess it is paint grade so could be filled. Soft maple or poplar would be my preference though, easier to repair, MDF is my last choice if boots with water are involved. MDF doesn't take melting snow well.

Boy oh boy :) Peter saved me the trouble of composing a reply. EXACTLY what he said. I highly recommend GRK trim head screws. # 8s are plenty good enough.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Oh boy did I goof up bad here.
I thought I mentioned this above, but, it looks like I missed it.

The existing steps are poured concrete. I've read up online that I can use an adhesive to both seal the concrete as well as adhere the treads.
My plan is to trowel on the construction adhesive and set the treads in place. Then drill into the concrete and use Tapcons to secure the treads.
The go back and plug the holes.

I really apologize for omitting that piece of crucial information.

Here's a picture of what I have now.

[Jason Roehl]

If you're going to trowel the glue, I'd skip the Tapcons altogether. But first make sure the concrete steps are pretty flat (probably within 1/16"-1/8" over the whole step), and use a trowel with notches larger than that.

[Bill Orbine]

I'm concerned about laying wood over concrete. These treads you got are something like 5/4 material with nosing on 1 edge? My concern is this stuff will warp crazy or in other words.... get stressed out with wood one side on concrete and the other in open air... so perhaps screw and plug would be better after all along with non water based adhesive troweled. Maybe a relief cut or two along the length on the bottom of the tread. But no relief cuts between the front fasteners and the riser in front and below this tread! For risers, probably 1/2" MDO (two sided preferred). Just my thoughts.

As for the plugs contrast is my preference. perhaps a nice dark plug such as walnut with the oak tread? It's a matter of preference and you can do anything you want!

[Jason Roehl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Q3mHyzn78

This is about T&G flooring, but some of it applies. It might not hurt to make some relief cuts in the back, but definitely get good glue.

[Richard Wolf]

How are you going to address the fact that your bottom step will be 1" higher than the rest and the top step is 1" lower than all others. I think drilling 3/8 or 1/2 inch holes and using face grain oak plugs makes them almost invisible. The large contrast plug look good in a timber frame or log home, not so much traditional.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm concerned about laying wood over concreteBill,
I was also - but - there's an adhesive I found that's made specifically for bonding wood treads to concrete. It acts as both a sealer and an adhesive. Bostik urethane adhesive is the one I ran across that's made for this.

Jason,
Check your link! LOL! The music video was inspiring and all but I watched enough of it to know she wasn't going to be installing wood floors ;).

Richard,
I'm going under the assumption that the finished steps were oj with the thickness of padding and insulation & the wood treads will be the same thickness as the carpet and pad.
If not, well, then I'll have a nice start on that bar top I plan on putting into the basement when I finish it off eh? ;).

[Jason Roehl]

BWAHAHAHAHA!

I guess I had forgotten to copy the URL into the clipboard. I won't go into why that link was what got pasted into my post, it's a long story. I assure you that is NOT my normal listening genre.

Here's the link I meant to post (double-checked this time):

http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/installation/glue-down-general.htm

[Rich Engelhardt]

heh, I made it a point in life not to judge another person's taste in music - no matter how weird it is ~ LOL!

Anyhow - yeah that link is to a sister site of one I got a lot of good info from -
http://www.lasvegaswoodflooring.com/

The guy at LasVegas wood flooring says he does wood treads over cast concrete all the time/he's a writer for hardwoodinstaller and he's a staff member of the wood flooring install forum I frequent.
He's the one that mentioned the Bostik adhesive.

[Jack Wilson50]

RicH,

When I did mine, I had to cut the noses off of the existing treads, that was a pain; but at the time I did not have a multitool. I just glued mine down with the PL adhesive, no nails or screws. It has been about eight years and no problems at all. If you can get under the stairs you can put a couple of screws from the under side to hold them until the glues dries.

Good luck

Jack

[scott vroom]

BWAHAHAHAHA!

I guess I had forgotten to copy the URL into the clipboard. I won't go into why that link was what got pasted into my post, it's a long story. I assure you that is NOT my normal listening genre.



Actually, here's the link Jason meant to post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcL---4xQYA

[Vijay Kumar]

How are you going to address the fact that your bottom step will be 1" higher than the rest and the top step is 1" lower than all others. I think drilling 3/8 or 1/2 inch holes and using face grain oak plugs makes them almost invisible. The large contrast plug look good in a timber frame or log home, not so much traditional.

Richard this is the concern that I have in adding covers to existing tread. The thinnest tread cover I have seen is 5/8 of an inch and I believe the code says that the maximum difference cannot be more than 3/8". How do you deal with this short of ripping the existing treads.

Vijay

[Dave Kirby]

I have some stair treads that are carpeted now and I plan to replace them with oak treads.
I have no access to the underside so I have to attach them from the top.
My plan is to use a Forstner bit - probably 1" - and drill out a cavity, which I plan to plug with a dowel.

I wouldn't use Dowel to plug the screw cavities as you will be placing end grain in among long grain and they will be almost impossible to hide and stick out like a sore thumb. Have you thought about using face grain plugs? You can cut them easily yourself (from scraps of the same wood used in your treads) if you have a drill press or they can be purchased in a similar wood species. Then you will be able to match the grain and make the screw covers virtually disappear for a much better finished look.

[rudy de haas]

Concrete, huh?

While I detest laminte flooring it does have two advantages you may want to consider:

1 - it comes in very thin forms. Unless you redo (as I did) the floors on both ends of the stairway, putting even 1/2" wood on the treads will give you a top and bottom height mis-match. 3/16th laminates are widely available and will generally keep you within code for this.

2 - gluing laminates to concrete is both common and easy. I know "decent quality": is not usually associated with laminates, but if you get the best you can (i.,e. not Chinese paper mache - perhaps US made fake scraped with a vinyl underlayer) a little short term moisture won't hurt and the surface concrete's long term tendency to aborb moisture out of whatever you put over it will have no effect.

It's not the solution you want, but it may work for you.

[Justin Ludwig]

BWAHAHAHAHA! I guess I had forgotten to copy the URL into the clipboard. I won't go into why that link was what got pasted into my post, it's a long story. I assure you that is NOT my normal listening genre. I'm not judging you. Well, maybe a little.