Ever build a project without measuring

[Brian Hale]

...... No tape measure or rulers, just eyeing up proportions and making tab A fit slot B.


Slow morning here at work waiting for quality control to finish inspecting my first piece

Brian

[Sean Hughto]

Yes. all the time. The beauty of handwork is fitting one piece to the next and being able to take what the available wood presents.

[Brian Hale]

I've not had the opportunity to try yet, normally i know a table will be 12x18x37.high. Do you find working to set measurements confining?

[Daniel Rode]

When I totally wing it and design as I go, I typically end up with something that doesn't do it's job very well and doesn't look very nice either. So I like to start with something based on measurements after working through the design. Often, the measurements on paper or sketchup are very precise but when I get to building I'll begin to deviate much like Sean described and the ruler gets a lot less use.

[Sean Hughto]

Do you find working to set measurements confining?

Yeah, I don't enjoy working to a strict plan as much. Mind you I'm not completely loosey goosey - I know how high I want a table for example of the space I want a cabinet to fill of the size it needs to be to hold its intended contents. But I rarely need anything beyond a measuring tape to find such approximate sizes when I'm roughing out. And while you don't need to be whipping out micro rulers and such, you are still needing to be precise, you are just taking "measurements" directly from the piece instead of the intermediary of rulers and calipers and such.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm often designing something for a given circumstance, so measurements are important. The only time I really just do whatever is when I'm putting together tool holders for my wall.

[Brian Hale]

Many years ago (back wben Kodachrome 50 was available) i remember watching a guy layout dovetails with a compass and divider and thinking a ruler and calculator would be easier. Lately however I've come to realize that most of my mistakes in the shop are the result of poor measuring like marking 3/8 instead of 5/8 and how using a direct transfer method may help. That also ties in with using a knife instead of a pencil....

[Sean Hughto]

It's not just about making mistakes as far as remembering the correct number - 3/8ths vs. 5/8ths. Direct marking takes out the middleman. There is no translation to numbers representing units and back again. Moreover, direct omits having to choose units at all; the choice of anything but the smallest of units - like thousandths (sheet of paper type thickness) - is less precise.

[Prashun Patel]

Almost always.
I start usually with rough measurements and dimensions for aesthetics, not for fit. I'm forever nibbling/shooting/trimming (and then of course shimming) to get things to fit. It's more fun (read, I'm too lazy to measure everything so accurately).

[Roy Lindberry]

Yes, I've begun to really enjoy working this way. As with everybody else, I always start with basic dimensions to make sure I will have an aesthetically pleasing product (though I don't always succeed to the level I'd like), but I then trim/fit everything by direct transfer. Sometimes the transfer is indirect, such as with a pair of dividers, but I generally just transfer from one piece to the other.

After spending years in a production woodshop where everything was built to measured drawings, I find this a relaxing (and more precise) way to work. Of course, if I was trying to copy an existing piece, I'd be using the tape measure a bit more.

[ken hatch]

Many years ago (back wben Kodachrome 50 was available) i remember watching a guy layout dovetails with a compass and divider and thinking a ruler and calculator would be easier. Lately however I've come to realize that most of my mistakes in the shop are the result of poor measuring like marking 3/8 instead of 5/8 and how using a direct transfer method may help. That also ties in with using a knife instead of a pencil....

Brian.

Several years ago, after a rash of measuring mistakes, I converted from a fractional to a metric shop. It took a month or so to get completely comfortable to the point I thought in metric instead of needing to translate inches to mm. Once I was seeing and thinking mm my "mistakes" have become very rare, of course I can always find some way to mess up but measuring usually isn't one of them.

ken

[Brian Hale]

Having been a machinist for the past 26 years precise measurements are an intimate part of me, it's how i think when I'm at work and it follows me into the shop, tough habit to break.

[Mel Fulks]

For me part of the charm of old dividers is thinking about how they were used to pace off increments proportionate to the
overall project size. And it's still a good accurate way to work involving little use of rulers.

[Sean Hughto]

Having been a machinist for the past 26 years precise measurements are an intimate part of me, it's how i think when I'm at work and it follows me into the shop, tough habit to break.

I'm not a machinist, but I have a lathe. If I want to make a dowel/pin/round tenon to fit a hole, I'll drill a hole in a test plate and use it to test my work as I get close. Same if I'm making a lid or two part friction fit match container, etc. Calipers would work, but there ain't nothing like the real thing!

[Brian Hale]

Maybe I need to remove the calipers from my shop. I can make the tenon on the end of a stretcher fit the mortise like a piston but often the stretcher is to short. The longer measurements are where i stumble and fall

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Boat and surfboard building requires measuring the initial forms, then the rest is fitting a piece, then marking it, cutting to the mark, fitting it again, and fine tuning. Ultimately you take what you end up with and plane it until it looks symmetrical.

297772

[Steve Voigt]

Having been a machinist for the past 26 years precise measurements are an intimate part of me, it's how i think when I'm at work and it follows me into the shop, tough habit to break.

I can relate to this. I was a machinist in my 20s and though it's been 15 years since I worked in a shop, thinking in thousandths is hard-wired into my brain.
I don't think it's something you want to eliminate. It's more a matter of figuring out when precise measurements are not the most efficient way to do something. You might want to try just adding a few direct tranfers (as others have suggested) to your next project, without going whole hog and throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[David Weaver]

I generally like to have one large dimension on a project, and if other large dimensions can't just be eyeballed, then something general for those.

Once I start the first piece, though, I ditch any plans for measurements and fit everything I can by marking a stick or marking the next piece to what's already there.

Its obvious on the plane thread that some moderately elaborate layout goes on for visual cues, but I don't necessarily end up where the marks were laid out on a plane (this has been true for both metal and wood planes), just somewhere close.

Steve, the guy who taught me to work wood is a mechanical engineer with some machinist tendencies. I learned early on he was going to be doing everything to the thousandth. The last project we did had plans already, but he worked them out in autocad and created another set with numbers to the thousandths in it.

I am FAR too lazy to work like that. He considers it safe, measure everything exact and then you don't have to test fit much along the way, you can just process your pieces and assemble them. I consider it difficult!

[Jim Koepke]

A story stick is kind of like measuring I guess.

Some of my biggest failures were from trying to make everything to an exact size. Making things fit without exact measurement seems to work better for my work.

Though for some things measuring or adjusting a size helps to save wood. For my first potting bench the slats were cut to 20". Lately they have been downsized to 19". The difference is getting five slats per 1X4X8" piece instead of four and a 16" piece of scrap.

For me the measuring is done to avoid scrap pieces and getting things to fit. Other than that one piece is often marked from another.

I am another one of those with slight dyslexia causing me to mark on the wrong side of the inch or half inch mark on a ruler.

I have also found my work to improve by just using a four fold ruler instead of a tape measure.

I think super precision is for metal work and power tools. Wood seems to work better, at least in my shop, when trimmed to fit.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

Story sticks and full scale drawings are all the measuring I do.

Each piece fits to the last,
I never cut things too short
when marked from where they must fit.

[Steve Voigt]

Steve, the guy who taught me to work wood is a mechanical engineer with some machinist tendencies. I learned early on he was going to be doing everything to the thousandth. The last project we did had plans already, but he worked them out in autocad and created another set with numbers to the thousandths in it.

I am FAR too lazy to work like that. He considers it safe, measure everything exact and then you don't have to test fit much along the way, you can just process your pieces and assemble them. I consider it difficult!

Yeah, that's pretty over the top. It wasn't clear in my post, but I don't think like that any more. The calipers are usually on the bench, but they are mostly for things like measuring tenon thickness. Otherwise, I do a mix of measuring and just cutting/planing to fit. I don't make detailed plans either--a quick sketch is usually enough, with lots of dimensions undetermined. Mostly because I'm too impatient!

[Andrew Hughes]

Count me in as a referance builder.

[steven c newman]

Rarely have a plan of any sort, other than what my Single Brain Cell Sketch-up can conjure up. Case in point
297793
Since both of these were from salvaged lumber, I just went with what I had. Once the basic box was cobbled up, I could then fit all sorts of goodies inside
297794
Usually just hold the next piece in it's new location, and mark what doesn't fit.

[Don Rogers]

What I do is draw up a design of mine on a CAD program, take it to the shop, find suitable material (usually from my scrap bin) as close as possible, then make it to suit the material size. Rarely do the finished dimensions end up like the drawing but it does the job.

If I have to purchase material for the job, then I follow the drawing fairly closely. If it is a paid job (which I don't do any more) I make it to the customer's drawing.

Of course, I'm retired and most things I make are for my own use. Who cares if they don't turn out exactly to the drawing ??? I'm having fun.

[Jim Matthews]

That tool chest really shaped up well.

Nicely done.
What happened to all the shavings?

Tornado come through?

[steven c newman]

Igor was riding a broom....

[Jim Matthews]

That's pronounce "Eye-gor".

[george wilson]

Believe it or not,I had to replace all the quarter round moldings around the baseboards in this house. Soon,I found I was able to accurately cut the pieces by eye that went around in the closets. I'd make them about 1/8" too long by eye,then trim them by eye only,for snug fits.

[Derek Cohen]

...... No tape measure or rulers, just eyeing up proportions and making tab A fit slot B.


Slow morning here at work waiting for quality control to finish inspecting my first piece

Brian

It starts with an idea ... however what one visualises does not always work out as imagined. Most of my planning stays in my head, and what I commit to a sheet of 1/8" MDF is the plan ... essentially a storyboard. Discovering the proportions that work sometimes happens as one goes along, but for the more complex designs they need to be integrated before you commit to cutting anything.

I have just begun on a lingerie chest for my wife. This is going to have flat tapered sides and convex drawers (dovetailing complex angles is going to be interesting). The chest needs to be at a height that enables Lynndy to see into the top drawer. So this is established as 54". The width at the base is largely determined by the alcove into which it will go: Lynndy wants it as wide as possible, and I want it to be as wide as is aesthetic (she has little concern for the latter - she just wants a chest of drawers!).

It is the angle of the tapered sides that need to be determined. I am also not so sure about the width she decrees (hell, she'd never know if I make it an 1" narrower!).

So this is where the eye balling comes in.

I made up a model with lengths of MDF ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Linergrie%20Chest/1_zps86122625.jpg

They are screwed together at each end (to reduce the use of clamps), and the section in the centre is numbered in inches ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Linergrie%20Chest/2_zpsbb6b7f90.jpg

So this is what it looks like in the bedroom alcove (those pictures will be going). This is 18" wide at the top ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Linergrie%20Chest/3_zps15ad7a57.jpg

... and 22" at the top ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Linergrie%20Chest/4_zps6be33615.jpg

We settled on 20" ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Linergrie%20Chest/5_zpsab65f3d8.jpg

Of course I may just bring it in by 1" at each side.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Berlin]

Agree with everyone's responses. My projects seem to turn out much better the less measurements I use to make the project. Once I got it out my head that everything had to "machined" to exact specs and I started utilizing hand tools more and more in my shop, I started to realize things started to go smoother and better. I usually start with the general idea and general dimensions of what I want to be, and then I just go from from usually changing and fitting as I go. Much better! I have to think too hard when I have "24 3/16" - 12 3/8" = " and so on. The less measuring and math I do and the more direct marking and fitting, the better it is.

[John Sanford]

IIRC, when I made a small bedside table for my son, the only actual "measuring" that I did was for the setback of the aprons. The only reason I measured was to make sure they were all the same. Essentially, I played around with the apron placement, found something that I liked, then used it to set my small combo square so I could transfer the setting to the other three aprons. I don't think I've built anything in a loooong time that was purely done off tape/ruler measurements, generally I'm going with a mix of tape/rulers and reference/fitting.

[John Coloccia]

I do both, depending what's appropriate. A rule is nothing more than a standardized story pole. I'll often times eyeball what I want, and then move it to the nearest inch if it's not critical. Other times, I'll just start cutting, often just eyeballing from start to finish, and occasionally holding one piece up to the other and marking if I want it dead nuts. And then sometimes, you'll find me agonizing with a digital micrometer, trying to nail a measurement to .001" best I can.