1995 PM 66 Advice

[Drew Pavlak]

Hello all,

This Saturday I went to my first auction and scored a 1995 era PM 66 with a sliding Excalibur table and fence system. The sliding table fence seems to be ok, but the table saw fence was dropped and appears to be bent. So what are my options? New fence? Obviously, but which one? I was looking at the Vega Pro 50 or original PM fence. Are there any others out the you could recommend? Biesemeyer is a little pricey for me, so I doubt I will go that route.

I was thinking of selling the sliding table, I don't see a huge benefit for me and could recoup a little of my cost of the saw. I only paid $425 for the saw, but even still it could help cover the cost of a new fence. Or make it more justifiable.

I would be interested to hear what everyone has on their saw's for aftermarket fences and why you went that route, if you don't mind sharing. Also here are a few pics.

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[Len Henkel]

Hello all,

This Saturday I went to my first auction and scored a 1995 era PM 66 with a sliding Excalibur table and fence system. The sliding table fence seems to be ok, but the table saw fence was dropped and appears to be bent. So what are my options? New fence? Obviously, but which one? I was looking at the Vega Pro 50 or original PM fence. Are there any others out the you could recommend? Biesemeyer is a little pricey for me, so I doubt I will go that route.

I was thinking of selling the sliding table, I don't see a huge benefit for me and could recoup a little of my cost of the saw. I only paid $425 for the saw, but even still it could help cover the cost of a new fence. Or make it more justifiable.

I would be interested to hear what everyone has on their saw's for aftermarket fences and why you went that route, if you don't mind sharing. Also here are a few pics.

297646297647297648297649


I purchased one of the VSCT (Very Super Cool Tools) fences. I got it so that I could attach tall fences, hold downs, and various jigs. I'm happy with it. http://vsctools.com/

[Doug Ladendorf]

Very nice pickup Drew. I found a used Biese for my PM66, but the VSCT are worth looking into as are Vega and Incra. I think those are all still made in the USA. (I don't believe the new Biese is.)

Doug

[Matt Day]

Way to slide the gloat into the post ! $425 is a steal!

I used to have a Vega and really liked it. I have a Beis now. Only advantage I can really say is that it is the standard fence so most jigs/plans are based on it. I was a big fan of the Vega micro adjust feature.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the original fence on my 66', works as well as anything. To me the bies is no upgrade. You already have the rails no? New accu-fence may be the most cost effective option, or a used one if you can locate one.

[Todd Burch]

I have a PM66 with the original fence. Circa '97. Bought it new. Love the stock fence. Still have the original fence faces - not a saw mark on them.

I recently bought a '98 Delta Unisaw that needed a new fence. I bought the Biesemeyer rails and the Super Cool Tools t-square and fence, referenced above. It has good points and bad points.

The VSCTools slotted fence (an extrusion made by 80/20) is handy for attaching shop made accessories, and because the fence is what it is, you HAVE to attach accessories to use it in certain cases. Like when cutting 1/4" plywood. Without attaching an accessory fence face, 1/4" ply (which is "pretty thick") will slip/jamb under the fence and screw up your cut, and even create a safety hazard. I made (had to make) an accessory fence face. I used 3/4" scrap to do this. Not a huge deal, but, consider this. My fence ruler was fine tuned for measurements, but with the accessory face, you have to add the thickness of your accessory face to the measurement for each cut. PITA. Now, I will point out, that when cutting plastic laminate on my PM66, I have to also attach an accessory fence face, but there's a world of difference between plastic laminate (thick paper) and 1/4" ply.

The extruded fence does not have a flat face. So, for critical cuts, where your (thinnish) material hits the fence is where you better measure from with your 6" rule. Also, when ripping a 4X8 sheet of 3/4" ply, and you are standing on the far corner of the ply, getting ready to push it through, there is still an air gap between the top face edge of the ply and the extruded fence when the ply is all the way against the fence. On the PM fence, there is no gap - no dark line, and you know that you know that you are lined up properly. With the VSCTools fence, you have to double/triple check that you are lined up by eyeballing for a consistent "dark line" (air gap) width where your ply is against the fence.

The nylon set screws on the T-square, used to adjust the perpendicularity of the fence to the table, stick up high, so there are certain times when these nylon set screws interfere with the miter gauge, or your miter slot jigs. Annoying.

I was able to initially align my fence with a dial indicator to be pretty close to spot on. It took a while because I didn't realize at first the face of the fence wasn't flat, and my dial indicator was all over the place. Once I figured that out, I was able to get it pretty close. The 4 screws for the T-nuts that hold the fence extrusion to the t-square are underneath the t-square, so you have to find a happy setting where you can nudge the fence into proper alignment, yet be tight enough that you can remove the fence, flip it over and lock it down. Also, the fence is not precision machined to be flat on the face from one end to the other. The dial indicator proves this. It's not much out, but it's not dead flat.

Both the PM66 fence and the VCSTools fence use a cam lever for locking the fence down. Both are excellent at not moving when locking the fence. Upon unlocking the fence, however, the VSCTools fence hops up due to the way the cam mechanism works. The unlocking of the fence causes the t-square to climb up the fence rail a tad before it becomes free. At first, I was always getting a clunk of the fence from it riding up and the falling back to the table. After using it for a while, I learned to control the clunk. Initially, for fine fence adjustments, this was really annoying, because during the fall and clunk, the fence would move and I was no longer able to fine tune it's position, because it moved. After a while, I learned to only semi-lock the fence, check my setting, and then bump it into position, and then finally lock it down completely. It takes some getting used to. The PM66 fence does not climb the rail when unlocking.

Lastly, the PM66 fence is one big solid (welded?) unit. It ain't moving, it ain't getting out of square if you bump the far end of the fence. Not so with the VSCTools fence. About 1/10 of the way into my project, I bumped the end of the fence, causing it to move (a few thousandths, I suppose) closer to the blade at the far end of it's (nice) 46" length. Since I had already returned the borrowed dial indicator, for the whole rest of the job, I was getting more saw marks than I should have on my stock. Annoying. The t-nuts don't hold as well as I would like them to.

The VSCTools fence has some shortcomings. I feel its shortcomings don't justify the price. The gap under the fence is too tall, and the fence adjustment ought not to be so fragile, and the nylon screws sticking up too high which interfere with anything using the miter slot cheapens the unit. I really like the concept of having a fence that is flexible enough to add accessories to make it into other creations, but I feel the basic features could be better for general work. I would not buy it again.

Todd

[Drew Pavlak]

I have the original fence on my 66', works as well as anything. To me the bies is no upgrade. You already have the rails no? New accu-fence may be the most cost effective option, or a used one if you can locate one.

Peter - Unfortunately the only thing I have is the rails for the Excalibur fence. I am not sure the original owner got the original Powermatic rails. The saw, sliding table and fence were all purchased at the same time.

You don't happen to know what the part # are for the rails and fence? I went to powermatic's site and the replacement parts webpage redirects you to Jets website. So having a little issue trying to come up with the right part numbers.

[Drew Pavlak]

Thanks Todd,

That is an awesome write up. I will have to give it some thought before I make a decision. VSCT looked pretty Cool, no pun intended. I would really like something I don't have to mess with all the time. i.e. the main reason I was looking for a powermatic PM 66. Maybe I can score one on a forum from someone trying to sell theirs.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Valuable input Todd. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Doug

[Alden Miller]

That's the same age as my PM66 except I bought mine new. Mine came with the Biesemeyer fence but no sliding table. That's a good score that you got, enjoy!

-Alden

[Chris Padilla]

Incra adorns my Grizzly 1023Z table saw. I'd never use another kind of fence...can't beat the repeatability.

[Jim Andrew]

Do you have friends who are great welders? Not familiar with the brand fence you have, but a friend looked my Biesemeyer fence over, and said he could build one to put on his saw. The guy is talented. If it is made with a square tube like the Bies, I would be tempted to grind off the welds and replace the tubing.

[Drew Pavlak]

Unfortunately the best welder I knew (my dad) passed away almost 3 years ago. He was amazing when welding or working on a metal lathe. My one regret is that I never had him teach me much about either of those 2 things. So now I have to do it on my own. Personally I don't want to spend the time building one. I would rather work on reconditioning the old stuff I picked up and making some with those.

[Drew Pavlak]

Would anyone be willing to snap a few Pics of their front and back rails and fence for me? I was watching a video from the Very Super Cools Tools website and I am pretty sure I can build my own rails. The only thing I am unsure about right now is how the Biesemeyer and Powermatic fences actually attach. Especially at the back of the table saw. Also how long are your fences? Looking at the Beisemeyer fence it says it is 52" long. Not the rails. Seems really long to me.

[Todd Burch]

I can't provide a pick of my PM (still in storage), (or measure it for you) but it does not connect at the back of the saw. Beisemeyer is the same way.

The rear "rail" is merely angle iron on both.

I believe VSCTools has a video or two on Youtube that shows the process they used to build their own rails.

[Drew Pavlak]

As far as I can tell, VSCTools does not sell the rails. I have looked all over their site, but basically you need Biesemeyer type rails, and then you can purchase one of their fences. I was more curious as to how the fence "locks" into/onto the back rail. or does it just ride on it and then the cam just pinches it on the table between front and back.

[Todd Burch]

There's no connection between the fence and back rail. The angle iron back rail merely supports the side extension table.

The top end (far end) of the VSCTool fence rides on a square piece of some high density plastic on the saw table surface. The plastic glide attaches to the bottom of the extrusion with a t-nut. I can take pictures at lunch time if you like.

There are some flavors of fences that ride/lock onto both the front and rear rail. The Beisemeyer, PM, Accuride, VSCTools and Unifence systems only ride the front rail.

[Scott Stafford]

This thread almost seems like deja vu.

I have a 1995 Powermatic 66. An excellent saw that I purchased because Delta didn't have a left tilt saw at the time. I've always been glad I did.

Around 2002 I was enticed to buy an Incra fence that I used for about ten years. I was never very happy with the Incra. While it was very adjustable, for me, it was too fussy to use. I could never recall if I had moved the rule or zero'd the micrometer-like adjuster the last time I used it. It was a difficult fence to make some jigs work with do to the central beam mounting point. In order to cut pieces over thirty inches you have to move the adjusting bridge back... I tried to liked to like it but finally gave up.

Having sold my original PM fence and rails, I had to start from scratch. I looked at repurchasing the Powermatic fence and the Biesemeyer fences. Wow... had prices gone up! I considered the Jet fence. Then I came across the VSCT fence. I liked the idea of using the extruded aluminum fence and the adaptability it gave me. I still had to step up and buy a set of Powermatic rails. Side note: my new Powermatic rail's countersunk mounting holes were drilled out of alignment and therefore the rails were not level with one and other... just enough to really mess with me, especially when mounting my side extension table.

While I can see how the alignment problems that Todd had could happen, I have not experienced this. I do agree that the gap beneath the fence (about 1/8") could be narrower. The one time this was an issue when cutting veneer stock, I just clamped a narrow strip of baltic birch plywood to the fence and covered the gap.

Overall, after a couple years, I like the fence.


Scott in Montana

[David Hendricks]

There is a how to video on youtube for make biesemeyer style rails, you can find the rectangular tubing pretty cheap at a popular auction site, you would need a 2x3 tube. The rails are just basic angle iron. The biggest PITA would be drilling and counter sinking the holes in the angle iron. In the video the guy is using industrial metal working tools, but it could be done otherwise I would think.