Anyone try the nilfilsk attic 30 vs fein turbo I

[Matt Lau]

I'm thinking of getting another vac in the future.

Currently, I have a second generation (tool trigger, variable suction, no cord storage) Fein Turbo I hooked up to a dust deputy in my garage workshop.
The thing is, my garage workshop is about 20 minutes away from the apartment where I live.

I'm thinking of getting a Fein or a (Stihl rebranded) Nilfisk vac for the apartment (eventually) as I currently use a broom and household canister vac for dust collection. I'd like something quiet, powerful and compact.

I've ruled out Festool, as it's significantly louder than my Fein, and doesn't have any major benefits except clipping onto systainers.
I'm thinking of making a MFTC in the future, so the organizational advantages are not an issue.
It's a great vac, but overpriced and loud.

Has anyone had a chance to compare the two?

I'm also open to alternatives.

[Bill Neely]

I don't know anything about the Nilfisk, I have a Fein. Other than upfront cost/benefit for the Fein Vs. the Festool I looked at consumables. I can get Gore filters at HD and bags from Cen-Tec Commercial that are very much less expensive than Festool. You may want to look into those for the Nilfisk.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Find woodworking did some comparisons in #223 (Bosch Airsweep 3931A, DeWalt D27904, DeWalt D27905H, Dustless Technologies HEPA Vacuum, Fein HEPA Turbo III, Festool Cleantex CT 26) and previously in #163 (probably too old to worry about). I remember reading the review but I have already forgotten the results.... but for some reason the Bosch sticks in my mind; but I would read the reviews first.

I own and use a Festool, love it. I also own and use an old Craftsman behemoth with loads of suction.... and boy is it loud. I would use that sparingly in an apartment. Oh yeah, and I have a cyclone in front of the Craftsman.

I don't think that they reviewed the shop vac model, but, I hear that one has trouble with things like concrete dust (plugs-it-up), which is where I vaguely remember that the Bosch did OK if you have the version that tries to self clean the filter.

[Jim Matthews]

Do I understand correctly that wood dust collection is secondary to regular use?

I like the Emer Botticelli (http://www.emerusa.com/emerbotticellivideo.aspx) - removable dust chamber that is washable, good filtration and small size
with a potent motor.

Get a nice household vac, like the Emer or Miele and add a small cyclone separator for the
woodworking aspect. That way, the vacuum would remain portable for daily operations.

Stelios Stavindres posted this design (http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-Cyclone-Bucket-Dust-Collector/), and it's readily emulated.
He's a genius at packing lots of woodworking into tiny spaces.

(He's on the island of Cyprus and works in a VERY small shop.)

[Matt Lau]

Nope.

I just splurged on a cordless vac for inside the apartment.
I'd thought of just getting a Miele and adding a cyclone, but it seems a bit expensive--even a used Miele will run around $200!

I'm thinking of a nice separate vac purely for woodworking, but fairly small and mobile.
A tool-start and variable suction are two things that I think are very important (as I've grown used to it with my Fein).
Eventually, I hope to use it to help out with project for my parents (like installing a new closet, rehabbing their property, etc).

I'm thinking of a Festool compatible system that isn't festool (too loud and expensive, the vac is).
I'm a bit weird that way.

[keith micinski]

I haven't used the stihl yet but we use a nilfisk for lead abatement on window removal jobs and it's very powerful and very quiet. I know just the other day the I heard my dad complain the nilfisk was 800 and the stihl is the same vac for half the price.

[Jim Matthews]

Nope.

I just splurged on a cordless vac for inside the apartment.
I'd thought of just getting a Miele and adding a cyclone, but it seems a bit expensive--even a used Miele will run around $200!

I'm thinking of a nice separate vac purely for woodworking, but fairly small and mobile.
A tool-start and variable suction are two things that I think are very important (as I've grown used to it with my Fein).
Eventually, I hope to use it to help out with project for my parents (like installing a new closet, rehabbing their property, etc).

I'm thinking of a Festool compatible system that isn't festool (too loud and expensive, the vac is).
I'm a bit weird that way.

You get what you pay for.

Weigh the cost versus the measurable benefits.
No shop vacuum, sufficiently powerful for the task you have set
will be optimized for apartment use (noise levels, portability and power on features).

You asked for the possible, yet reach for something that doesn't exist.

If you already have the solution - why ask?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I'm thinking of a nice separate vac purely for woodworking, but fairly small and mobile.
A tool-start and variable suction are two things that I think are very important (as I've grown used to it with my Fein).
I Love my craftsman that does not have these things, but, it means that.

I cannot use the vacuum on a sander because there is too much suction and it pulls the sander into the wood more than it should. With the variable suction vacuum, I adjust the suction until it pulls the sander in to just the right amount.
It is a bit annoying that I need to manually turn the vacuum on / off, but, you can purchase external devices that accomplish the same thing (not that I have done that). For my primary dust collector, I added a remote on/off device so that I don't need to actually walk over to it (something that was under $20 from Home Depot).

[Matt Lau]

Dear Jim,

I understand that I get what I pay for.

Perhaps, I should have clarified my question: Is there a significantly better vac than my Fein turbo?
I'm closely looking at just getting the newest version of the Fein if the Nilfisk blows it away.
This is more of a side/upgrade that I'm looking forward to. I'd like to keep the Fein purely for shop duties (like permanently hooked up to a stationary tool.)

I was hoping to see if anyone on the creek has had experience with both the Fein and the Nilfisk (aka Mira, Stihl, etc).
I'm not sure if you're taking it as a personal snub, or if you just had a bad day.
But no offense was/is intended.

I'd tried the Festool at a local Woodcraft, and I mainly liked it for the hose/cord storage and ability to clip on sustainers.
In all other perimeters, there was nothing that exceeded my Fein (believe me, I really wanted to buy a Festool package).
It's louder, bigger, much more expensive (at the time ~$460 vs the $180 I paid for my Fein).

Anyways, I'll try out the Nilfisk next week (birthday!).
If I ever find a Meile, I may try to play with it too.
They have a reputation for great vacs.

-Matt


You get what you pay for.

Weigh the cost versus the measurable benefits.
No shop vacuum, sufficiently powerful for the task you have set
will be optimized for apartment use (noise levels, portability and power on features).

You asked for the possible, yet reach for something that doesn't exist.

If you already have the solution - why ask?

[Andrew Petralia]

I'm in the opposite situation... I have a Miele for my household vac (and love it), but looking at a Fein or a Festool for my shop vac.

As for the Miele, we bought an Onyx model on amazon that came with a free HEPA filter. It is the quietest thing I have ever used and I suspect the German engineering/manufacturing will last many years. I highly recommend them for hard floors and carpet.

[Matt Lau]

I just tried out a Miele for the first time (at Cole Valley Hardware of all places)!

It was amazingly quiet, and was respectably strong for a household vac.
At max power, I'd subjectively rate it as having maybe 1/4-1/3 of the power of my Fein (which is actually impressive).
I may buy it for use as a shopvac temporarily--and turn it to home duty.

I admit it! I was totally wrong to be so limited in my thinking.

[Matt Lau]

Andrew, the Fein and Festool would definitely serve your purposes.
The nilfisk likely as well (mirka sells a rebranded nilfisk attix with it's ceros sanders).
I would highly recommend some cyclone or dust deputy.

Between Festool and Fein, I made my decision at Japan Woodworker by trying both out side to side.
I tried both at low power, mid, high. I'm pretty sure that I drove Don mad by spending half an hour looking at the vacs.
In the end, I chose the Fein because I'm *very* sensitive to sound. The suction was just as good.

Here were my gripes with the Fein:
1. Horrible cord/hose management--there was none!
The new model looks to have fixed this.
2. Round top--can't stack stuff on it.
The new model is flat topped.
3. Horrible handle
I spent ten minutes and wrapped some paracord. However, the stock handle was downright painful.

Festool is superior in these ways:
1. Storage.
Hands down, much better storage. Clips to systainers, nifty add on handle.
2. Better wheels.
The wheels lock.
3. Grounded.
I'm not sure if the Fein is electrically grounded, but the Festool and Nilfisk are.
4. Bags
Less messy cleanup.
5. HEPA is by default

Power is about equal.
Variable suction equal.
Both tool triggered.
Both German engineered.

Fein advantage:
1. Fein is much cheaper.
2. Fein is at least as tough (I could go on about the abuse that I put it through before I knew better).
3. Fein is more quiet.
4. Fein could use the Cleanstream reusable filters (not sure on new model).
5. (subjective) Fein has a nicer hose.
6. Fein can provide same power in smaller package (the motor heads appear the same for turbo 1, 2, 3)

[Matt Lau]

Not to resurrect a long dead post, but to update based on my experiences.
I've bought a secondhard nilfisk Attix 8, and I can confidently say that it's a superior vac to the Fein in every way.
I don't have enough experience with a Festool to comment yet, but may buy one in the near future.

Nilfisk-- slightly quieter than Fein, which is significantly quieter than older Festool (didn't try the new one).
Not an appreciable difference. Only noticeable during side by side.
-- Chord/hose storage; Much better than Fein (there is none, 2nd gen), not as good as Festool. Works
-- Toughness; Much, much better than Festool; Can't comment on Fein.
I got my Nilfisk encrusted from ebay. Some contractor had used the Nilfisk to sand a ton of drywall, which had hardened on the walls.
After 2 hours of chipping off the crud from the sides. I threw in a HEPA filter ($18) and a fleece bag ($5). It's works good as new.
-- Fancy bells and whistles: I like the manual filter cleaner (haven't had to use it). I chose this Nilfisk over the newer models of Nilfisk/Makita (auto clean), Bosch (autoclean), because I didn't want the vac to suddently *thump* when I'm doing something delicate like sanding a wall down with my ROS (Mirka Deros). Also, has variable suction and tool trigger.

Fein-- Still pretty quiet. Rolls better. Poor hose storage. Reliable, but not HEPA yet (filter costs much more than Nilfisk one).
-- Can't fit stuff on the top, and handle sucks (fixed stuff with some paracord.
-- I might sell mine, or use as a dedicated suction for a cyclone.

[Lee Schierer]

ATTIX 30
8-Gallons
120 CFM
59 dB(A)
90" Water Lift

Fein Turbo ISpecifications:
High performance turbine for 151 cfm (71 l/s) flow rate and 98.4" of water lift (245 mbar vacuum).
Low volume of 67 dB (A).
large range due to 16 ft power cord and 16 ft vacuum hose.
Large wheels rotate 360° for optimal maneuverability, even in tight conditions.
Tool coupling with suction control for easy control of suction power.
Autostart outlet with power-on delay to prevent current spikes.
Practical storage area with rim.
Approval for dust class L.

Power consumption1,100 Watts
Suction capacity151 cfm
Static water lift98.4 inCapacity5.8 gal
Weight according to EPTA17.9 lbs
Cable with plug19.7 ft

I own the Turbo II which has the same suction ratings, but adds variable speed. I have no complaints with my Turbo II.

[Greg R Bradley]

The current Feins are totally different than the Fein vacs referenced here - not made by the same company or even in the same country. New Fein don't even have variable suction, just an optio for a vacuum leak!
The Festool vacs have been improved and aren't much louder than the old Feins.
The Nilfisk is pretty wimpy but can be bought very cheap and can be a good deal for the price.

[Martin Wasner]

I don't know about wimpy, I'm pretty darn happy with mine, and I've used the Festool vacs. No experience with Fein vacuums

[Patrick Curry]

just a heads up for woodworkers, the Attic 30 comes in a few different models and only one has the auto start. I placed a $450 bid (w shipping) on a new old stock before realizing this.

[Joe Jensen]

I have a 20 year old WAP. They were bought by Nilfisk and when I researched a few years ago the Nilfisk were superior to the Festool and Fein in that they had the same or slightly more suction were much quieter. My WAP is 56 db and if I recall the Nilfisk was the same. Now having said this they may have been sold to some investment banking firm and brand raped like Black and Decker, Porter Cable, Delta, etc.

Nilfisk Attix 30, 120cfm, 59db, 90" water lift
Festool CT26, 126cfm, 62-72db (variable speed), 96" water lift
Fein Turbo 1, 151 cfm, 66db, and 98.4" water lift.

I always have enough suction and like to sand without ear muffs. Also the Nilfisk has many variation with auto cleaning, auto start, HEPA, etc.

[Patrick Curry]

I likely would have been better off dropping $300 or so on a Fein Tubo. I'll see what I can do for an auto start and just make the most of it. I was going to build a cart to stack the vacuum and a shop make cyclone so I'll have a place to attach an auto start.

[Eric Schmid]

If you're planning on hooking up larger power users to the vac, it does not look like the new Fein would be much help. The tool port appears to be limited to 6 amps.

For larger power users I picked up a remote switch for my CT, even though they have auto start. Plug the vac into the switch and use the remote to activate. This allows me to run the vac and tool on separate circuits when possible. For small tools like sanders the auto start is convenient, but using the power port for a miter saw can result in lot of unnecessary on/off cycles.

That Nilfisk should be a solid runner.

[Patrick Curry]

Thanks for the info.
I'll check out some of the auto start solutions.

Right now I'm looking to lower cost solutions. IVAC brand has a section on their website labed "DIY" where they're selling simple switches for $49 and refurbs for nearly half that amount. https://shop.ivacswitch.com/collections/timberpal

I wouldn't mind something similar for my DC and larger (240) equipment too, but that's secondary at the moment. But I'll check out some of their info just to make sure there isn't a single solution that would wrap up this shop vac station & tools, plus the DC and larger equipment.

This is how these things work....I go in with the best intentions to save a few bucks over a Festool vac and then a week later I've got wireless blast gates. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon11.png

[Matt Lau]

I'm surprised this thread is still running, after I updated it from the grave.

1. I'm surprised that you find the Nilfisk wimpy. Mine is an Attix 8, which (I think) is an older version of the Attix 30. It seems around as strong as my Fein Turbo 1 (older version with adjustable suction/tool trigger).
2. Patrick-- you might want to look for one of the older Feins (with adjustable suction). I think that they're around for cheap because they don't have the same cachet as Festool. I've seen one as low as $80 on craigslist! Mine has been reliable despite much abuse.
3. My one complaint with my Fein is that the cord storage really sucks...is nonexistent. Thankfully, I'll probably use it to make a "dust sniper" (cabinet enclosed dust deputy attached to the Fein-- google it).
4. Eric's suggestion is a very, very good one.
5. Keep looking on Craigslist!

Oh, and I forgot to mention that my tiny Fein is strong enough to collapse a "heavy duty" 5 gallon bucket when attached to a dust deputy.
If you go that route, reinforce the inside with MDF or something.

[Matt Lau]

I likely would have been better off dropping $300 or so on a Fein Tubo. I'll see what I can do for an auto start and just make the most of it. I was going to build a cart to stack the vacuum and a shop make cyclone so I'll have a place to attach an auto start.

btw, you can contact ebay/seller to retract the bid. Most of the time, they tend to be pretty cordial about things.

I'd recommend this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/92027236090-Turbo-1-Vac-5-8-Gallon-Fein-/112074199116?hash=item1a1824904c:g:GWMAAOSwTZ1XmbD ~
However, I think it's sort of overpriced.

-Matt

ps. Dust sniper http://www.instructables.com/id/Dust-Sniper-quiet-extractor-system/

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.cpooutlets.com/karcher-1-348-197-0-6-6-gallon-wet-dry-vacuum-with-power-outlet/karn1%2e348-197%2e0,default,pd.html

$167 from CPO. Highly recommended.

[Matt Lau]

Not to necro this thread, but I wanted to just add a significant finding.

Recently, my dental office had another leak (thanks to my landlord).
I pressed my Nilfisk into action this time. The prior three times, I used my Fein. I didn't dare use my Festool.

The Nilfisk has almost as much power as the Fein (subjectively about 70%-80%), but has a loud built in alarm if it doesn't sense enough air flow.
It's very intelligent, almost too intelligent for sucking up lots of water. The suction pipe junction doesn't let it suck as much since it's lower.
It's more powerful, quiet and refined than the Festool. Peter's link looks just like my Nilfisk, and would be a great deal.

In contrast, the Fein has a bit more power (not noticeable by itself, but side by side it's stronger).
It takes abuse with no complaint, but will automatically shutoff if severely overloaded (took about a full hour of abusive water sucking).
Volume is about the same as the Nilfisk, maybe a hair louder. Less audible (subjectively) than the Festool due to lower frequency.
HEPA conversion ($112) is much more expensive than the Nilfisk HEPA conversion ($18, but mine's an older model).
Form factor is the very worst for hose storage, and the handle sucks (easily fixed by a paracord wrap).

Just my follow up from before.

Ironically, my Festool vac (CT36 HEPA) is now mainly relegated to shop cart duties in my hidden workshop behind/inside my dental office.
It works, but is less powerful and more annoying sounding (high pitched whine) than the other two vacs.

IMHO, for quiet, refined power, I think the Nilfisk type vac is the very best that I've used (haven't used the Bosch or Starmix yet).
For a good all around vac that's reliable, quiet, and can be abused, the older Fein is hard to beat.
Festool has the best form factor, but higher pitched whine, less power, fussier, more expensive consumables....I'd be most likely to sell this in the future.

[Peter Kelly]

I think the Metabo vac is a re-badged Starmix: https://www.cpometabo.com/metabo-us602057800-10-2-amp-auto-clean-vacuum-cleaner-with-hepa-filter/mtbnus602057800,default,pd.html?cgid=metabo-vacuums

Looks nice but pretty spendy compared to a Nilfisk and some others with similar specs.