interior doors & cabinet doors GLUE PROBLEM

[Dominique Meuris]

I have to make 12 solid oak 3-panel interior doors for a customer. similar to these http://www.livo.be/prod/269392.jpg
I have a perfect knife for doing this.
http://bivenmachinerysales.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=213

But at this moment I only have 1 problem. I'm affraid to make them!
In the past I have made a lot of interior doors in this way, but some of them started to get problems.
Seems that when glueing up the frame with the panel inside. small drops of the glue settled on the panel. and this resulted in cracks.
How can this be solved?

I have had this problem with cabinet doors aswell.

Please give me an easy solution for this, i'm in desperate need!!

[Rich Engelhardt]

These things are remarkable.

Spaceballs (http://spaceballs.com/)


Not only will they help keep the corners of the panels out of the glue, they center the panels in exactly the right spot.

[Dominique Meuris]

seems like these can only be ordered in canada? our factory is in Romania
is there another solution?

[Justin Ludwig]

Are you leaving enough space for wood expansion in the stiles and rails? If not, that's probably causing the doors to crack, not drops of glue. If so, sounds like you need to be careful when applying the glue so the squeeze out is minimal and travels outward instead of inward. Other than that, Rich is right about spacer balls.

Good luck!

[Justin Ludwig]

seems like these can only be ordered in canada? our factory is in Romania
is there another solution?


Do an internet search for "raised panel spacers"

[Dominique Meuris]

We are alway's taking wood expansion into account. the cracking isn't hapening because of this.
Actually we started making our cabinet doors like this. now we usually cut out the visual fraze part. and mount the panel seperatly + fix it with small wooden elements of 1x1cm, but this is taking a long time to do so. We make around 80-100 cabinet doors a day, so it takes a long time to fix the panels in this way.

That's why I'm thinking of going back to the old method, but I cannot afford to have cracking panels because of glueing them up in the corners.
How can I make certain that the glue is going outward instead of inward? In my opinion the glue is going to whatever place it want's to go to.

[Bradley Gray]

before spaceballs showed up some used a small dowel pin top and bottom center to keep the panel centered.

[Kevin Jenness]

Don't be afraid. Use the correct amount of glue to minimize squeezeout. Use spaceballs or barrel buddies. If they are not available, put the rails on your panels at the appropriate distance apart and centered on the panels and pin through the groove and panel edges at rail centers before gluing on the stiles. Prefinish your panels or wax the corners to prevent glue adhesion.

[Dominique Meuris]

Which of these spacers do you guy's think is the best?
http://woodworker.com/250-barrel-spacers-firm-45-durometer-mssu-150-956.asp
http://woodworker.com/fullpres.asp?PARTNUM=156-248&LARGEVIEW=ON

it will be used for pine doors and solid oak doors

[Justin Ludwig]

I apply glue to the tenon (cope) only. I put glue on the end grain and sides. I stop short 1/4" from the inside and outside of the tenon. Squeeze out pushes the glue to those parts. I only build up to 150 doors a month. Experiment with what works for you.

[glenn bradley]

seems like these can only be ordered in canada? our factory is in Romania
is there another solution?

You can make your own space balls by laying out a 1/4" bead of silicone rubber caulk on waxed paper. When cured, peel the strip off and cut it into 1/4" chunks with scissors. A high density foam tape (exterior-rated, like for weatherstripping) can also perform this function. Another tip to prevent glue caused panel cracking I have seen is to nip the corners of the panel off a bit. Not so much as to not seat in the channel of course but, enough to keep interior corner squeeze out from being able to get a grip. A bit of paste wax on the corners would do the same I imagine. The idea is to not let the panel get glued in and therefor split during movement. Just my two cents worth of wisdom :p.

[mreza Salav]

Finish the panels first so that the glue doesn't stick to it. If not you can apply a little bit of oil (tiny amount) at the corners of the panel so that again the glue doesn't stick to it in case of a glue up. Another thing I've done is to use scotch clear tape at the corner of the panels (at the 90 degree) to prevent glue getting to the panel.

[Bob Wingard]

I buy rolls of "BACKER ROD" and cut it into 1/2" long chunks ... every bit as good as space balls, readily available, and a fraction of the cost. I can run to LOWE'S .. get the rod .. have the whole thing sliced up .. and be gluing up doors before an order for space balls is processed. It's also wise to use a very small roller, and apply just a touch of wax to the very perimeter of the panels prior to insertion ... keeps the glue from sticking to them.

[Dominique Meuris]

I buy rolls of "BACKER ROD" and cut it into 1/2" long chunks ... every bit as good as space balls, readily available, and a fraction of the cost. I can run to LOWE'S .. get the rod .. have the whole thing sliced up .. and be gluing up doors before an order for space balls is processed. It's also wise to use a very small roller, and apply just a touch of wax to the very perimeter of the panels prior to insertion ... keeps the glue from sticking to them.

actually, that sounds like a good idea!
and I can buy this locally aswell then ...

does anyone else have experience with this?

[joseph f merz]

i used baker rod once due to using wider then 1/4" dado .for me baker rod failed .With-in a yr panel had dropped .had to return ,pry panel up and use a brad to center it .
I am using the domino now for my doors .i glue domino and lightly glue style and rail surface . after hearing your experience I am more pleased with this tool

[Peter Quinn]

I used to make a lot of passage doors at my last job. We used space balls and silicone rectangle sponges, backer rod works too. Don't go crazy with glue, learn to keep just away from the edges of the stub tenons, I mark mine with a pencil and stay just back. But glue may still squeeze out a bit, so we smack the panels around a bit. Glue up, clamp up, let the. Sit 15 -20 minutes then knock the panels around a bit in all 4 corners to break any glue bond there. I used a soft block like pine and tapped against the panel flat or edge, makes a world of difference. Every door....every time.... Panels get banged free.

[David Eisenhauer]

I do this as well. After clamping and letting sit for a few minutes (weather/temperature dependent), I pick the doors up by the clamps and shake them enough to cause the panel to "rattle" a little bit. I also taught myself to back off the glue as well. Most of us probably use too much glue most of the time anyway.

[Dominique Meuris]

I do this as well. After clamping and letting sit for a few minutes (weather/temperature dependent), I pick the doors up by the clamps and shake them enough to cause the panel to "rattle" a little bit. I also taught myself to back off the glue as well. Most of us probably use too much glue most of the time anyway.

well the problem is that I cannot constantly control my workers for how they are glueing something up.
They are thought to be carefull with glueing the frames up, and they try to do it as good as possible.
but with like 300 doors a month, there is alway's a small chanse of glueing them together.

I'm going to try it with baker strips or space balls.
+ shaking the door 20 minutes after glueing.

But what with big interior doors? we cannot shake this after glueing. and I prefere to keep an interior door inside the press for 2 hours.

[Peter Quinn]

well the problem is that I cannot constantly control my workers for how they are glueing something up.
They are thought to be carefull with glueing the frames up, and they try to do it as good as possible.
but with like 300 doors a month, there is alway's a small chanse of glueing them together.

I'm going to try it with baker strips or space balls.
+ shaking the door 20 minutes after glueing.

But what with big interior doors? we cannot shake this after glueing. and I prefere to keep an interior door inside the press for 2 hours.


Its tough to find good help, I hear that. And if all were well, then no problem, but if there are problems they must be addressed and corrected or its bad for everyone in your business. Perhaps you can have them cut apart a failure to see just what happened, sometimes seeing is believing. We didn't shake the full sized doors (though I do that with cabinet doors), just bump the four corners of each with a dead blow hammer and a soft block like pine or cork, before the glue squeeze in the corners becomes permanent. IME 20 minutes is about god with a PVA yellow type glue, if its plastic resin or otherwise you have to wait until after the open assembly time is over plus some margin I imagine for the same effect. You can certainly accomplish this in the press, I used to use I-beam clamps, we left them in clamps about 2 hours, you can still move the panels in clamps. 300 doors pre month, even more reason to get it right. Warranty claims on failures add up!

[Chris Padilla]

You might set up a largish block of paraffin wax and simply rub the edges of the panel along it to coat them and then glue won't stick to it. Paraffin wax is basically the same as candle wax or canning wax.

[Fred Heenie]

Buy and cut screen door spline for spacers. I use the round spline in raised panels for both doors and architectural panels. This works great and the long pieces are easy to keep in place and offer a balanced pressure.

[jack forsberg]

i was trained to have the panel tight in the frame for mill work processes and then only have space on the side of the panels for house doors. ends grain should be a tight fit to add racking strength to the door. I have found those that use them space balls are coming from a cabinet door build back ground and really that's what there suited to. A simple 45 on the end grain with a jointer gives the glue all the space it needs. Now by the look of the door you want to make i don't see a cope mould that would let you use that $1000 cutter block you show . Looks like a stricken moulding to me not that the panel work would be any different. but if it is a stricken moulding you won't have a problem with glue on the the floating work

never had a problem with glue if panels are mill correctly and them space balls are for making sloppy panel work in light doors IMO.

I like the back to back panel way too. you can see how i mill for glue and fit in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMUlIk1u6A&list=PLrGUwFtKG85RHPPO-CMCzkBMHc8xq4xLs

[joseph f merz]

thankyou Jack for that education on doors .what i heard was i do not size my panel on the end grain sides smaller . Not sure i understood the bevel of the edge deal,not sure how much and what the point was .

[jack forsberg]

The 45 on the End grain allows the ingrained to rest against the style or rail but does not give a Side grain to side grain area that glue can stick to. The glue squeeze out is in the very corners this reduces those corners

[Keith Hankins]

Finish the panels first so that the glue doesn't stick to it. If not you can apply a little bit of oil (tiny amount) at the corners of the panel so that again the glue doesn't stick to it in case of a glue up. Another thing I've done is to use scotch clear tape at the corner of the panels (at the 90 degree) to prevent glue getting to the panel.

You hit the nail on the head! I'd add if you take a candle and strike the edge of the panel, no glue will stick. Don't like spaceballs as they will wear out eventually. Funny thing a ton of antiques were built without plastic spacers.

[Kent A Bathurst]

My solution is a combination of various posts:

1. I use space barrels. OR - a bead of silicone caulk that has dried, and cut into 1" pieces.
2. I use a hand saw to remove 1/4" - 1/2" of the corners, so there is no material in the corner where the glue is.
3. I always pre-finish the panels.
4. I also put some wax [paraffin, or a piece of candle, or beeswax - whatever is handy] on the corners
5. Never had a problem.​ Very easy to do.

I also put a small spot of thick-formula CA glue in the groove to hold the spacers in place during assembly. Put the spot of glue in, put the spacer on top of it, wait a few minutes. The spacers won't fall out of the rails.

[Jim Matthews]

You might set up a largish block of paraffin wax and simply rub the edges of the panel along it to coat them and then glue won't stick to it.

+1 on this, the way I was taught.
Finish the panel, first.

We also cut up wine corks to hold the panels centered.
One at the top and bottom center.

Two on each side, where most of the movement is concentrated.

[Jim Andrew]

I also finish the panels first, as the first doors I built, the panels would shrink slightly and show the unfinished edge of the panel. It reduces the amount the panel can shrink by sealing. I also take a few seconds and use a tiny brush to spread the glue on the joint, so all the surfaces are coated. Sure reduces the squeeze out.

[Jeff Bouley]

How about using a little paste wax on the corners of the panels. I don't know of any glue that can bond to that.